Suggestions for high-quality trailer brake lines?

S

Sunbeam

Active member
Hi folks,

Well, a depressing sight greeted me today when I was working on the boat. I moved it around a bit in storage, and noticed something hanging down under the trailer...? Turns out it was one of the (surge/disc) brake lines. It had come unscrewed from one of the brake calipers. Boo!

But then, just to put the cherry on top, I started looking at the rest of the brake lines and they are all completely cracked. This surprises me somewhat as they were brand new in May 2012 and have literally never seen sunlight or salt water. When I'm trailering they are under the boat; I store the boat indoors; and when I do cruises I store the trailer indoors. I've also never launched in salt water. Obviously at this point the thing to do is replace them, but I never would have thought they'd have deteriorated this quickly (?). They were all nicely secured so not flapping around when driving or etc. The cracks run across perpendicular to the hose, and are not just at curves, but on straight runs too.

The "funny" thing is that not too long after I had all the work done, I had a problem with both the first section of line (installer error that I had to correct) and the actuator (died after a couple of weeks). They were both Tie Down. I was in the middle of Montana and couldn't get the "good" flexible/rubber trailer brake lines, so used what I could get, which was metal brake line. I've kept an eye on it and always was thinking I should replace that to be up to the standard of the other lines. Well, ha, because that section still looks perfect.

So, I don't think I'll be getting Tie Down brake lines again. Not only did both the TD actuator and now the brake lines fail, but I didn't find their customer service to be too inspiring either (when I had the actuator problem two weeks in).

So... is there a "best" brake line brand/material? I won't always be in fresh water, so want an "all water" solution. No problem paying for quality.

Thanks for suggestions. I mentioned it up above but I have surge brakes and Kodiak discs, tandem axle.
 
I don't know if moisture is in the fluid. I've never had a leak, so no reason to think so. I think I'll change when I change the lines since its hygroscopic and 3-1/2 years old. Were you thinking that moisture in the brake lines would somehow cause the outer rubber to crack (yet with no brake fluid leak)? By the way, the trailer has not been in below freezing weather in the past couple of years.

The cracks look like the type of cracks we'd see in a lot of the hoses on Asian built boats - the rubber just didn't seem to hold up. My guess is this is the same type of thing. Just cruddy rubber.

I looked around and see Kodiak, Titan, and Demco kits that look similar (rubber hoses with metal fittings). Kodiak suggests that the stainless wrapped rubber lines can cause wearing when dirt (or salt?) gets under the stainless braid (this is in the text promoting their un-braid-covered rubber lines).

I'll research around, but I just wondered if anyone knew of a premium brand, since it's not something I'm super well versed in and C-Brats do trailer a lot. So is there a "Timken bearings" of the brake line world? I wouldn't mind a bit if the next ones last longer than 3-1/2 stored-indoors years!
 
Some what
DOT 3 and 4 brake fluids are hygroscopic, which means they absorb moisture even inside an otherwise sealed brake system.

Also our auto shop checks it and antifreeze with oil changes.

I didnt know how common moisture is performed.
 
Rubber lines cracking as you describe is usually from age, UV light etc. The rubber is breaking down. Lots of "made in China" rubber parts that I've seen do this. I've switched over to SS braided lines on all my VWs brake systems. Don't see why a boat trailer would be any different. I also don't use rubber lines anywhere in my home any more either. For the same reasons. I spend a little more on braided SS lines (faucets, toilets etc) and sleep better.

http://www.easternmarine.com/deemaxx-24in-stainless-steel-trailer-brake-hose-dot-ssfl-24

FInd your length/fitting size and pay a little more.
 
Wow a brake line unscrewed from the caliper? I don't think I've ever seen that happen. Seriously sounds like some sort of sabotage.
D.D. :o
 
Sunbeam":1g4valup said:
couldn't get the "good" flexible/rubber trailer brake lines, so used what I could get, which was metal brake line.
Click to expand...

Just curious, you do have a flexible line running from the frame to the caliper right?

Just looked through your trailer pics looking for clues. In pic #4 it looks like they have the steel line running through an eye bolt. It should have a rubber grommet to hold it tight and prevent metal on metal contact. The metal line vibrating around inside the eye bolt could cause problems. Also it looks like they have plastic tied the flex line to the steel line. Can't see the whole thing but something doesn't seem quite right. The steel line should be securely fastened at its terminating point where the flex line then runs unsecured to the caliper with just enough extra length to allow for axle travel. Maybe they used a flex line that was too long?

As for moisture cars have a flexible seal under the lid of the master cylinder. As your pads wear and the calipers take up more fluid this seal drops down with the fluid to keep air from coming in on top of the fluid. Trailer surge cylinders I have seen may not all have this so may be more prone to absorption of water.

Regards, Rob
 
Hi Bob,

I'm not sure which photos you are looking at, but many of the trailer photos in my album are of the trailer as-bought. It was a bit ragged, had a single set of drum brakes, brake lines blowing in the breeze, trashed bunks, rusted actuator, etc.

Here is how it went: The boat was just what I was looking for, relatively un-modified, stored indoors, low hours. BUT, the trailer had been stored outdoors, unused and un-maintained. I had the trailer gone through tip to tail when I first bought the boat. Pretty much made it a new trailer, except for the frame. I can do boat work but at the time was not experienced in trailer work, plus it was far away from home, so... why not let the experts do it (for once!).

Well, as I found out on my cross-country trip, they were not experts. I pretty much had to re-do everything at various "unplanned" stops. There were dozens of problems. I distinctly remember (and photographed), that as they had finished the new brakes (with all flexible lines the whole way back), I questioned how they had run the line coming off the solenoid/actuator in a sharp 90º bend, plus into an unprotected hole. They made a big deal about how it was fine, I should let them do their job, etc. etc.

Well one of the weird problems (there were many!) turned out to be that apparently a "flap" of brake line lining (or whatever it is) had happened right at that bend and it was messing with the brakes. This was in Missoula, so not exactly a ton of boat shops around. So I got the steel section locally and we tied it into the flexible lines. There is around 6' or so of steel line. Everything is is still the flexible line. I wasn't going to run the steel line unseen into the frame like the other line had been, so ran it along the top through some guides (all chafe protected with zip tied on chafe protection and etc.). Ironically, it's in fine shape and the "good" flexible lines are all deteriorated. That was the ONE part of the "professional" rebuild that I had not re-done, and I was just thinking about that, and how I should go through it before I trailer this spring. Well I guess my hunch was correct....

So now I'll be replacing the brake lines (myself!), and in the process will replace the fluid, and a few other things to remove all traces of those professionals (not that there aren't true professionals - these just weren't them). It will give me an excuse to buy a brake bleeder I've had my eye on :D

So now my mission is to learn about the options in brake lines and choose the best ones for my application. I had chosen the Kodiak brakes they put on, but just went with their recommendation on brake lines (Tie Down flexible).
 
Two days after I install Tie Down brand brake lines I find out that they don't last? Great.

Here is what I put on.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00YMZ ... ge_o05_s00

The kit didn't come with enough zip ties for my tastes, but those are cheap. Maybe I should buy a second kit and carry a spare in the tow vehicle.

I thought about going to Nebar in Ballard and having the lines custom made, but the $70 kit fit almost perfect. The mainline from the actuator was 3 feet too long for my trailer. That was handled by running past the axle and returning (with more zip ties).

I suppose that I could Armor All the brake lines for UV protection, although I've always been skeptical about the Armor All claims. It does makes old rubber look pretty. Not sure it does much else.

Mark
 
Sunbeam, Googling seems to suggest PVA or EPDM for flexible brake hose. The cracking you describe is completely out of spec for brake hose. Yup, those guys were dolts.
 
Replace them with wires and electric brakes. No more corroded and/or leaky brake lines! :mrgreen: Colby (Sorry, couldn't help my self...) :twisted:
 
Thanks for everyone's input :thup

Colby: Ha ha, of course you had to :D

Since I last posted, I did a bunch of reading last night, got a better look at the problem today, and also visited a quality trailer shop to get their thoughts. Combined with the info here, I think a plan is taking shape.

So first of all, in my reading last night, I found these options:

1) Steel
2) Stainless steel
3) Braided stainless over rubber
4) Thermoplastic
5) Rubber (or maybe that should be "rubber")

Of those, I was willing to consider Stainless steel, Thermoplastic, and rubber (if high quality). I wasn't familiar with thermoplastic lines, but did see that Pacific offers them, and I like their trailers. I read that although braided stainless covered lines are considered to be primo in the car world, they aren't necessarily as good for we boaters, because grit/salt/etc. can work its way into the stainless weave and then wear on the rubber inside. There is some thought that rubber lines make for less crisp braking because they "absorb" some of the force, thus the brakes don't get it. And that with surge brakes this might be more noticeable, as there is only so much the actuator can do, force/distance wise. I was always happy with the brakes, but hey, it's not like I would be disappointed if they were even better.

Second, I went to the boat and took a closer look at things. I found that the line did not "unscrew" from the fitting as I thought at first glance, but rather, broke. I don't know the technical terms, but if you come up a section of line starting with the rubber hose, you then have a swage, then a little/thin piece of metal tubing (maybe 3/16" in diameter or so), and then on the end of that you have the threaded part. That threaded part fastens to the brake caliper. I at first thought that had come undone. But no. What actually happened was that very short thin piece of tubing broke, so the swage is still on the brake hose, and the other part is still on the caliper, but nary the twain shall meet any more.

I checked the hose for a fair lead and didn't see anything that looked badly done. The hose was secured to the axle around 12" from the swage, and then there was a slight bulge of "extra" hose before the caliper attachment such that the line was actually very slightly "wanting" to be on the caliper. It was not flopping loose or pulling at all.

The interesting thing is that I have only launched my boat a half dozen times, and only in fresh water. Plus I've never towed in any snow or salt (and rarely even rain), and I store it indoors far from salt air. So it just seems that it was defective, from what I can tell (or mis-handled at during installation with hidden damage.

Third, I did some Googling to see what was available nearby for trailer shops. I wanted a place that would do the work OR sell parts if I decided to do it myself (not that I don't often order online, but I figured if they gave me some time and good advice, I'd try to buy the parts from them). I stopped in at the shop and liked them right away. Tidy, some nice boats/trailers on the premises, and a knowledgeable parts person who took the time to get to "know" my trailer and what I was looking for. So, what I found out:

- It's quite common for rubber brake lines here to crack on the outside, due to the warm climate (even if not in UV). Oftentimes, the brake lines don't fail but just stay cracked. Apparently there is some sort of liner. On the other hand, they certainly aren't any healthier for it, and I already knew I wanted to replace them since I don't want to think about cracks, and the system is already "open" anyway (so I'll have to bleed).

- If I want to replace them, and want to upgrade, but don't want to go to steel or stainless steel (salt water), he recommended the thermoplastic and showed them to me. They were a medium grey color and more like a plastic tubing along the lines of a very thin/small PEX. Not that they are PEX, of course, but I'm just trying to describe them. They are not as rigid as steel (obviously) but not as rubbery as rubber. Like rubber, you buy them in the next largest length and then coil the extra. So easier to DIY (for me anyway) than steel. Apparently they are between the rubber and the steel in terms of not expanding when you put the brakes on so brakes may be crisper.

- Then while we were at it, I asked about something else. Among the nine hundred other mistakes the shop that rebuilt my trailer made, they put the Kodiak calipers on the top of the discs, when they are supposed to be on the aft side. I asked someone (maybe Kodiak - it's been a few years now) about it and they said it's not horrible to have them on top, but not quite right either. I did have to (at one of my many stops), lift them up slightly and re-tighten them as the shop had left them just "sitting" on the discs and thus there was wear/heat. My hubs did cool right down after I lifted the calipers and loosened the castle nuts (yup, they had them too tight), but it still has been bugging me. But now that the system is due for a re-furb, I think I'd like to move them to where they really should be.

- And (while I'm at it), I really dislike my actuator. That's the one thing on the list that might not happen, but I asked what they liked. Thing is, I had really liked the features of the Tie Down I originally had put on, but it died after less than a week, so then I got a Titan. The Titan works, but it has a few irritating features. One is that the flip lever that engages the prongs that come up on the ball is super finicky. The ball has to be at JUST the exact right spot, not a hint of tension on it, etc. Two is that it doesn't have a designated way to manually lock out the brakes (it does have the solenoid, but sometimes I'd like to be able to manually lock it out - I can do it, but only with clunky methods). Three is that it's a huge pain to bleed (although that could be a good excuse to buy the bleeder I have had my eye on :D). Anyway, they recommended a UFP, and when I asked they brought one out and showed it to me. It did look pretty slick. But... we'll see, as the Titan is working fine.

Haven't decided yet whether to do it myself or take it to the shop. They are temporarily out of 20' thermoplastic lines, so I can't take it in there or buy the lines from them right now anyway (and the thermoplastic are my choice as of now).

Sunbeam
 
Hi Sunbeam,

FWIW, when I did disc brakes, lines etc, I replaced my 10,000 lb Titan coupler with a 16,000 lb UFP model A-160. It's far superior in design, not just in cpacity.
 
Richard,

Thanks for your thumbs up (based on experience) for both the thermoplastic brake lines and the UFP coupler. It's not the same as having used it for awhile, but I definitely liked the one I played with at the shop. It's tempting to change since the Titan is annoying and I'll have the brake system "open" and need to bleed it anyway.
 
It sounds like the leak was right at the thinnest point of the metal fitting. Seems to me that the only reason you would have metal fatigue there is if the rubber hose leading to the fitting was not of sufficient length to absorb the vibration of the axle. Even though there might be enough slack to not cause an obvious bind, if the rubber hose was yanking up and down on the fitting a thousand times a mile, it might cause the fitting to fail. I have seen lines (which I didn't do on mine) that make a complete loop between the trailer frame and the brake caliper. It could be that a "slight bulge" is not enough. I may have to re-arrange my lines.

I bought my actuator based on some reviews that it was easy to bleed and an improvement over the previous model (following some older reviews where the new model had some issues). It has a large fill cap (didn't spill a drop) and a simple bleeding process. Insert a screw driver in a hole and pump the fluid through. I did the "hose in a glass jar" method and was close enough to watch for bubbles myself. A one man 10 minute process.

The ball clamp on my new actuator is better than many that I have used, but it still requires some accuracy, just not as much as prior hitches. I've had some where if the ball didn't enter perfectly you couldn't just wiggle a little and get it to set down. You had to start over again and get the alignment perfect. Really a pain when the trailer is on uneven gravel and the vehicle has to be aligned perfect (no adjusting the trailer a little - you have to use the vehicle to get it perfect). The one on this actuator seems a little more user friendly. Not that important anymore since I have a backup camera.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BJ2 ... ge_o04_s01

The pin that lock the ball clamp is temporarily moved back to mechanically lock out the brake actuator for reversing (if you don't use the solenoid). Two downsides. If you are stopped on a steep hill, the brakes already have pressure and the pin won't fit in the lockout hole. You can't use the mechanical lockout. I was using a UTV that doesn't have backup lights, so no reverse solenoid. I had to chock the trailer wheels, let the UTV roll forward to release the pressure, then insert the pin and back up. Kind of a pain after the convenience of the reverse light solenoid, but at least I could back up.

The second issue, and this may be a deal breaker for some, is that this actuator doesn't have the traditional ball lock for anti-theft. An alternative method would have to be used if required.

Mark
 
I thought I'd follow up since I started the thread.

In the end I decided that I wanted to know my trailer and what was "in there," so I did all the work myself, and went past just the brake lines. This eliminated the last of the "professional" work I had done by the original trailer shop (a good thing!).

Starting at the front of the trailer I put on a new coupler, a UFP A-60. I haven't towed with it yet, but it seems to have some nice design improvements over the previous ones I've had (Tie Down that failed almost right away, and a Titan that didn't fail but was very fussy about latching, and didn't have a convenient manual brake lockout).

I also went with all new fasteners and nuts for the coupler and chains. In addition, the UFP coupler uses six holes in the tongue not just four (it has an inner member that rides in an outer housing).

Next, new thermoplastic brake lines (UFP) and new fittings. I spent some time doing a better job than the previous one of securing the brake lines. There are loops welded onto my trailer frame but they are a bit far apart for non-rigid lines. I didn't want to drill holes in my galvanized trailer if there was another way, but after researching, I found that it can be a challenge to stick things to galvanized steel. I went with a Weld Mount glue (AT-8040) and their glue-on wire tie mounts. I placed these wherever the loops left too much of a gap, then used them to secure both the brake lines (with hose for anti-chafe) and the new trailer wiring. I decided might as well get rid of the cheesy wiring while I was at it.

Then, for various reasons, I went with new Kodiak hub/rotor/caliper sets. Instead of Timken bearings this time (as I read they are no longer US made, although I didn't have any new ones to actually look at), I went with SKFs that were made in Japan. Got everything put on just so, new bearings and packing, buffed up spindles, etc. My axles take Bearing Buddys so that's what I put back on (cleaned up and re-used). I switched from Lucas Red N' Tacky to Green Grease, for somewhat arbitrary reasons.

Let's see... what else. Oh, after an annoying mishap where my buddy accidentally dumped sawdust into my open brake reservoir while manually bleeding (don't ask), I bought a Motive Products bleeder. Oh boy, does that make it easy and tidy!

I also bought some guide-ons from Pacific Trailer (where I sourced most of the parts), but have not installed those yet. Might do it yet this spring, or maybe next winter - but I wanted to grab them while I was there as they are heavy and bulky (great service from Pacific Trailers btw).

While I was under there, I did a better job of cutting/fitting/stapling my bunk carpeting.

I also got four new tires put on the rims while I had them off. Load Range D this time just for extra margin.

It would have been a lot easier with the boat off the trailer, but I got 'er done.

Thanks again for the suggestions!

Sunbeam

PS: One note is that the Kodiak all-in-one (I think they call them integral) brakes/rotors will fit 13" wheels, which the separate units won't).
 
One thing to watch out for with the Thermoplastic lines is getting them pinched or damaged. On My C dory25 trailer, When getting new tires, the tire shop, either put a jack, or jack stand over the thermoplastic Break line--damaged it, and I had to buy a replacement from Pacific Trailer. I don't know if steel would have survived any better, but this time around with the 22 trailer, we have steel brake lines. Also with road debris/gators etc, I fear that there could be an issue with the plastic lines. Hopefully you will have a good experience...
 
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