Stumped with electrical (bilge)

F

Fishbum

New member
Sure could use some help on this one since I'm not much of an electrical guy. The problem... when I put my batteries in this spring, as I have done years before, the main bilge turned on (rule mate 1100) and burned up. I thought that maybe the float had frozen in the up position and was the root of the problem. Next I put in a new bilge, and have the same issue, but didn't let this one burn up. Nothing has changed anywhere in the wiring and I am meticulous about marking wires and ensuring they return to where they were taken off. Why would the bilge pump suddenly become hot wired?

Any help would be very much appreciated.
 
I'm having a similar problem.

A week ago I discovered tha I had three burned fuses in the starboard lazerette due to condensation. I bought half a dozen 15 amp fuses and used three of them yesterday, due another problem, I think.

After completing some projects on Friday evening, I took Marcia on board to show them to her. The batteries were charged and I fired up the Wallas; the cabin lights worked okay, too.

Saturday morning I went aboard and the voltmeter showed 12.7 amps on shore power. The lights worked okay and I flipped the switch on the bilge pumps to manual for a second and then turned it off. The pumps kept going for about a minute and then quit.

I think it (or they) may have burned out on my boat, too. One or both, I don't know.

Even with the shore power on, the lights barely work and if I turn on anything else I can watch the voltmeter go from 12.7 to zero in seconds.

Even with the pump off, it takes the battery many hours (it's an AGM Blue TOP) to take any kind of a charge. Aso, even if I go to emergency parallel, I can't get any power to the cabin.

I'm supposed to launch in a week and am very reluctant to do so, because this is the third electrical problem that I've had in a month.

Obviously, electrical stuff is is like black magic to me, so I guess I'll have to go back to the boatyard, AGAIN. Suggestions?

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
Nick-

It kind of sounds like you've got a "whole system" electrical connection problem, usually the result of a battery cable connection, a battery switch problem, or a weak battery. Check to see if the battery terminals are clean and tight, and if the battery charger terminals to the 12-volt system are good. Have you had the battery checked out recently?

Solving electrical problems is a step-by-step process that requires some basic electrical knowledge to analize and follow through problems. Each subseqeuent step is dictated by what you find out along the way. Some work requires instruments as well.

This is obviously complicated by the fact that different folks have vastly different amounts of electrical knowledge, and some are pretty much totally baffled by electrical issues.

If you're in the latter category, the short-term answer is to check what I have suggested above, and then, if you don't solve the problem, call in the shop folks, considering the time factor.

In the long run, getting one of the books suggested earlier on 12 volt boat electrical systems would vastly increase your skills in this area.

I'd suggest you go to a store where you can look through the various alternative books and then pick out the one that seems to fit your present knowledge, needs, and learning style the best, as the learner-to-book match is of paramount importance.

Keep us posted on what you find out!

Good Luck!

Joe.
 
Just to be certain, place a volt meter on the 2 wires connecting the pump and turn on your battery switch and make sure you have 12 volts not 24...just in case..
 
Joe,

Thanks for the suggestions in paragraph one, but they all were checked out and okay when I last visited the boatyard. They were highly recommended and I'm inclined to trust them.

Also, I am in the latter category and will visit the bookstore.

Chuck, I check it out this morning.

Thanks to you both,

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
Fishbum":1mqki5hf said:
Sure could use some help on this one since I'm not much of an electrical guy. The problem... when I put my batteries in this spring, as I have done years before, the main bilge turned on (rule mate 1100) and burned up. I thought that maybe the float had frozen in the up position and was the root of the problem. Next I put in a new bilge, and have the same issue, but didn't let this one burn up. Nothing has changed anywhere in the wiring and I am meticulous about marking wires and ensuring they return to where they were taken off. Why would the bilge pump suddenly become hot wired?

Any help would be very much appreciated.
Click to expand...

The Rule pumps typically have three wires to them - one for ground, one for hot and one that can be wired to a manual override switch. How is the 3rd wire hooked up? Also, is the pump the "fully automatic" version? If so, they will run if any resistance against the impeller is detected. Is there anything in the housing that might be rubbing?
 
Valkyrie":37cgcqo4 said:
I'm having a similar problem.

A week ago I discovered tha I had three burned fuses in the starboard lazerette due to condensation. I bought half a dozen 15 amp fuses and used three of them yesterday, due another problem, I think.

After completing some projects on Friday evening, I took Marcia on board to show them to her. The batteries were charged and I fired up the Wallas; the cabin lights worked okay, too.

Saturday morning I went aboard and the voltmeter showed 12.7 amps on shore power. The lights worked okay and I flipped the switch on the bilge pumps to manual for a second and then turned it off. The pumps kept going for about a minute and then quit.

I think it (or they) may have burned out on my boat, too. One or both, I don't know.

Even with the shore power on, the lights barely work and if I turn on anything else I can watch the voltmeter go from 12.7 to zero in seconds.

Even with the pump off, it takes the battery many hours (it's an AGM Blue TOP) to take any kind of a charge. Aso, even if I go to emergency parallel, I can't get any power to the cabin.

I'm supposed to launch in a week and am very reluctant to do so, because this is the third electrical problem that I've had in a month.

Obviously, electrical stuff is is like black magic to me, so I guess I'll have to go back to the boatyard, AGAIN. Suggestions?

Nick
"Valkyrie"
Click to expand...

Sounds to me like two separate problems. Assuming you don't have the pump wired for a manual over-ride and you are simply turning on the main switch to the bilge pump, the pump sounds like it is working as expected. E.g when you switch it "on" it will run for a brief period of time and then shut off until it detects water. You can check to see if it's still working simply by cyling the switch from on to off and back to on.

As to solving the other problem:
1) Have the batteries tested at a local (trusted) battery shop. If the batteries are bad they will take a long time to charge and will drain quickly also due to what is effectively an internal short.

2) Isolate the problem:
If you switch to one battery, do you have the same problems?
If everything on the panel is shut off, same problems?
Get an Digital voltmeter (DVM) and set it to read current (there are often high and low current settings, start with high). With all switches off and NO shore power, remove one wire at a time from the battery terminals and put the DVM in line. Find out if something is drawing current. Then trace that line to find out what is the culprit. Electrical stuff isn't complicated at this level. Anyone can do it.
 
Last winter I ran the bilge pump one too many times. The bilge water had frozen and I burned up the pump. I pulled the Rule 1100 automatic and installed a new one the other day. I did not mark the wires because they all appeared to be coded ok. But, when I rewired the pump, it didn't work. Actually, it would not shut off. I Trouble shot it and found that the factory had wired in the brown wire with white stripe to the plain brown pump wire and vice versa. Worked fine when I reversed it, My mistake I guess. They probably just conincidenlty had similar colored witing.
 
Doc, thanks for the help. Problem solved. Coincidentally, I found the same issue and fixed it same as you did... probably while you were typing out the email.

Thanks for taking the time to offer your help.

All other who gave advice thanks as well.
 
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