Southeast Alaska Charts Wanted
- Thread starter KevinDU
- Start date
starcrafttom
Active member
paper charts?
i might have some of those.
i might have some of those.
At one time I left a complete set of charts and guides for the inland passage with our of the members in Sequim—who moved away and I believe sold his boat. You might ask around and see if one of the boaters there still has these. US charts are not copy rite, so you can copy them legally.
journey on
New member
You might consider Chart Books. We have 2 for the Inside Passage and SE Alaska, which were good enough to use pre-MFD. Got us through without any trouble and the annotations we put in give a reminder of what we saw.
They are Marine Atlas, Vol 2, published by Bayless Enterprises, and Exploring Alaska, by Evergreen Pacific Publishing. Please remember that our editions are 20 yrs old. I can also recommend Charlies Charts, but they're a cruising guide.
Paper charts are a bear to use on a small boat, even for reference only. Chart books are bound volumes, self contained and easy to flip and store.
Another alternative is to download the charts from NOAA (free) you want and have them locally printed. Understand this probably is not you first option.
Boris
They are Marine Atlas, Vol 2, published by Bayless Enterprises, and Exploring Alaska, by Evergreen Pacific Publishing. Please remember that our editions are 20 yrs old. I can also recommend Charlies Charts, but they're a cruising guide.
Paper charts are a bear to use on a small boat, even for reference only. Chart books are bound volumes, self contained and easy to flip and store.
Another alternative is to download the charts from NOAA (free) you want and have them locally printed. Understand this probably is not you first option.
Boris
Like Boris, we take along the chart book Marine Atlas, volume 2 & also the large rollable Inside Passage, route planning map published by FineEdge. It comes in both North & South section maps. We have had these since our first SE Alaska cruise in 2003. 2004 was the last year we took separate paper charts. Since 2010 & having a iPad with it’s downloaded charts, I seldom even use Marine Atlas or the FineEdge chart. One of our FineEdge charts is framed & on the wall, the other is mostly used for sharing or gathering information while cruising.
I have the Marine Atlas published by Bayless Enterprises and I will have the CF Card for Southeast Alaska which is about 10 years old but compatible with my Raymarine C70. I also have the BlueChart g2 HD for my Garmin Oregon 450 as a backup. Do you think that's all I need for Southeast Alaska? In Canada we still need to carry paper charts, it's the law! Not in the USA?
Kevin, I don’t think you need anything more, but this FineEdge chart for planning & a overall view while cruising, I’ve found to be well worth the price & a useful tool. It rolls up well making it easy to store until wanted to view. Some others will disagree, but I’m of the opinion for the most part paper charts are now relics of the past & the money for them could be put to use in many other more beneficial ways. Like the large laminated chart shown below.
Jay
Jay
starcrafttom
Active member
Well I went thru this pile of charts and I do not think I have one you want. I have the following if any one else is interested.
18476
18424
18477
18465
1848
18476
18441
18458
18484
530
3604
3670
3513
3551
3575
3598
3597
3574
3603
3671
3564
3545
3552
18476
18424
18477
18465
1848
18476
18441
18458
18484
530
3604
3670
3513
3551
3575
3598
3597
3574
3603
3671
3564
3545
3552
journey on
New member
KevinDU,
You have more than we used. Let's not beat this to death. Whet you have is very good: 1 chart book, a CF Card/Raymarine C70 and a BlueChart g2 HD for a Garmin Oregon 450 (whatever that is.) That's paper and 2 redundant MFD's.
Looks like you're set. Remember, 10 years is a blink of the eye in geologic time; just keep an eye out for the ATOMS, they may have been reset.
Remember Y2K, where we didn't know if our GPS's would continue to operate after New Years Eve, 2000, Went through that in Alaska without a hitch.
Boris
You have more than we used. Let's not beat this to death. Whet you have is very good: 1 chart book, a CF Card/Raymarine C70 and a BlueChart g2 HD for a Garmin Oregon 450 (whatever that is.) That's paper and 2 redundant MFD's.
Looks like you're set. Remember, 10 years is a blink of the eye in geologic time; just keep an eye out for the ATOMS, they may have been reset.
Remember Y2K, where we didn't know if our GPS's would continue to operate after New Years Eve, 2000, Went through that in Alaska without a hitch.
Boris
There is no law in the USA for recreational vessels to have paper charts. We had over 200 charts aboard--and a proper 4' x 3' chart table when we did our first 4 trips on the Inland passage (and GPS--a real innovation!). I saw a Trimble Chart plotter/computer, which cost over $10,000 at the time...I lusted for one. But made do with the paper charts. More recent trips--only the Atlas. I had the "Fine Edge Chart--before it was produced by "Fine Edge"--and used it for planning.
You will do fine with what you have. Although the hand held Oregon 450 is a little smaller than I like, it works very well in the dinghy.
You will do fine with what you have. Although the hand held Oregon 450 is a little smaller than I like, it works very well in the dinghy.
We did 1600 miles through South East Alaska in 2015. The one resource we used every day was Navionics US and Canada on the iPad. Navionics on the C-80 as a back-up. I realize Garmin now owns Navionics and who knows how they have screwed that up by now.
We also have and used the Fine Edge Charts.
We also have and used the Fine Edge Charts.
Brent, we too in 2015, as we cruised together, used the iPad with Navionics with the US & Canada as our primary & again did so in 2016, but last summer, while up there it started glitching. Following a complete shutdown, while at a port it wouldn’t upload the maps. I had two ipads & it did the same on both, fortunately never at the same time. Last fall it worked well at Lake Powell, but I suspect if we want to use it on our next planned SE Alaska cruise in 2020 it will have to be by yearly subscription if at all. Garmin has quit the blue chart app downloads too. I had them both & though preferring Navionics, the Garmin blue chat app worked well also. They are also shutting down their rode map apps. I have the Garmin NAVIGON app & really liked it on the iPad for road travel.
I think Garmin has come to the conclusion that offering a $50 app on a IPad that worked as well as many expensive chart plotters was not good for their primary business of making & selling plotters & have no problem with screwing over the customers that purchased them.
I think Garmin has come to the conclusion that offering a $50 app on a IPad that worked as well as many expensive chart plotters was not good for their primary business of making & selling plotters & have no problem with screwing over the customers that purchased them.
Ken O
Member
All NOAA charts are available in PDF format direct from NOAA. Find a place near you where architects and engineers get their plans printed and have them print the PDFs for you. We have a Selby's store in Billings that will print the latest PDF file for you for around $7.00, and that includes waterproof/tearproof paper. If you have access to graphics software, you can cut out the parts of the chart that you don't need so you don't have to pay for square footage that you won't use.
Ken O":1dinvsje said:
That certainly sounds like a real bargain for $7.00, especially color with the waterproof and tear proof paper!
But who wants full size charts on a C Dory going to AK? The 200 plus charts we carried before the GPS plotters, took up a huge amount of room.
You can buy chart books, or self print the charts you want from the PDF files, cutting the exact detail you need and put it on standard print paper--put in mylar or acrylic sleeves and in a binder for a lot less room and cost.
We do carry charts for planing and backup--but see above for the charts that most use.
Ken O
Member
We've kayaked much of SEAK for many years and I don't think I have more than 20 charts in our portfolio. And our kayak has an even smaller chart table than our C-Dory. I would just use editing software to break the charts into chunks that would fit on the kayak deck. As a person that makes my living keeping computers operational, I have a lot more faith in paper...
I can certainly understand using small segments in a Kayak. I don't know how long the entire coastline of SE AK is--but I have spent 4 seasons in the Cal 46 exploring AK, leaving Wa. in April and returning in Oct--and then another month in the C Dory 25. I covered a lot of waterways that I could--and each time took different routes and explored different areas. There is a whole lot of coastline there! There are C dory members who live there and have far better knowledge than I.
The low mean failure time of marine chart plotters is pretty impressive. Then you add in the easy and cheap redundancy of a second (and probably a 3rd hand held) GPS with all of the charts, it comes up in the very very unlikely possibility of failure. I have been using GPS and plotters since 1990 (before then I had used Sat Nav which was the pre cursor to GPS) and made several trans Atlantic and Trans Pacific passages, several of my close friends have done several circumnavigations each--with zero failures in the chart plotters.
Contra to that I have had a number of computer failures in far less time.
Even though I have crossed oceans long before GPS, using a sextant, and coastal navigation with depth finder and radio beacon as well as sextant--all using paper charts--I have far more faith in the MDF we have today for accurate navigation.
You cover relatively limited area at any one time in a Kayak--I have canoed and kayaked--most of the time with mark one eyeball navigation and a very simple map or chart. That is different than a 20 knot C Dory which will cover 1000 miles or more in a month.
You probably don't have "room" for on the of the Atlas books or wonderful guide books on your kayak--but they are fine for the C Dory--not only in SE AK, but all thru the River Sytems, ICW''s and coastal navigation of USA.
On the other hand, would you be willing to give up a modern GPS, especially in foggy or rough weather in a larger boat than a kayak? Not i.
The low mean failure time of marine chart plotters is pretty impressive. Then you add in the easy and cheap redundancy of a second (and probably a 3rd hand held) GPS with all of the charts, it comes up in the very very unlikely possibility of failure. I have been using GPS and plotters since 1990 (before then I had used Sat Nav which was the pre cursor to GPS) and made several trans Atlantic and Trans Pacific passages, several of my close friends have done several circumnavigations each--with zero failures in the chart plotters.
Contra to that I have had a number of computer failures in far less time.
Even though I have crossed oceans long before GPS, using a sextant, and coastal navigation with depth finder and radio beacon as well as sextant--all using paper charts--I have far more faith in the MDF we have today for accurate navigation.
You cover relatively limited area at any one time in a Kayak--I have canoed and kayaked--most of the time with mark one eyeball navigation and a very simple map or chart. That is different than a 20 knot C Dory which will cover 1000 miles or more in a month.
You probably don't have "room" for on the of the Atlas books or wonderful guide books on your kayak--but they are fine for the C Dory--not only in SE AK, but all thru the River Sytems, ICW''s and coastal navigation of USA.
On the other hand, would you be willing to give up a modern GPS, especially in foggy or rough weather in a larger boat than a kayak? Not i.
Ken O
Member
All good points Bob, as always. I just don't like to see people put all of their faith in electronic devices. I will look forward to better performance from chart plotters compared to computers. My initial experience with my Lowrance unit and the people who make and support it has been very positive. Still, for me, there's nothing like a nice big detailed chart to study and plan my travels.
We’ve explored in our CD 22 around 12,000 miles in SE Alaska & many hundreds of miles more in a motorized kayak & inflatable boats. I started out using a combination of paper & electronic charts & in 2004, when we lost our electronic navigation in a incident in Ford’s Terror, we continued to explore using paper charts until a new computer & soft ware arrived. Since then & now having multiple plotters with the added iPhone & iPad using Navionics makes me feel like Bob & others, very comfortable leaving the paper behind. I do as mentioned before still carry aboard the large overview FineEdge chart. For planning future trips or checking out areas ahead for more detail on the go, a IPad with Navionics is hard to beat.. I did use a Garmin Colorado small gps when on the rubber inflatable or kayak, but now it stays in the ditch bag & the iPhone with Navionics goes on the rubber inflatable cruises. At this point on future trips, I wouldn’t hesitate to cruise SE Alaska in any of the places we’ve been using only a IPad & iPhone with the Navionics app & the large overview chart.
Jay
Jay
Jay's post reminded me that we had navigated the entire coast of Yugoslavia in 1984 using a road map. The scale was accurate. We knew Lat and Long of several points, scaled it out for the whole map. We also had a guide book written in German (which neither of us speak or read well --to the extent that one evening we ordered "horse steaks" 
We went slowly and relied on eyeballs and digital depth sounder.
We went slowly and relied on eyeballs and digital depth sounder.