Some Technical Questions

The three way refrigerator conundrum.
I have had a few slide-in pickup campers , a few motor homes, and a camper trailer or two. Some reefers were two way and some were three way. I have had a Dometic and a Norcold. run the batteries down in the camper AND the pickup, BOTH, while going down the highway. Here the alternator is putting out, what?, maybe 125 amps or more and the batteries go dead. Last pickup had two alternators with the camper package. Upon inquiries to Dommetic, I was informed that you need an isolator between the camper and the pickup. Ok , so the batteries in the camper go dead even faster. They could not explain to me why the vehicle charging system could not keep up.
Propane blows out going down the road and it is suppose to be off in gas stations and passing through tunnels. We started using 12 volt in the morning while traveling than switch to gas in the afternoon so the batteries would charge back up before stopping for the night.
I have had two Norcold 100 lb chest freezers over the years that run on 12 volts or 110 and they could be left on day and night on 12 volts and still have enough power to start the truck in the morning. These freezers would ride in the back seat of the pickup and run directly from the pickup batteries

You tell me , I can't figure it out. Anyone have a solution for this?
Captd
 
Captd,

I'm beginning to think that the solution to these fridge issues is to switch to the ICE technology. It's consistently at 0 degrees centigrade or 32 degrees Fahrenheit, is ecologically friendly after being created, is low maintenance, and over time - simply goes away - quietly.

We're talking about small boats here - not cruise ships. Is it more or less trouble to deal with some of these so called conveniences? There are folks that have sailed the world without electricity, without plumbing (that's over my limit), without engine power. Are they having more or less fun?

Sorry Captd, don't have a clue as to what you experienced.

The creature comforts of these new boats is marvelous. Our R-25 is always warm (this is the PNW - cool is not a problem) - engine heat is superb, the Wallas is more than adequate and a small electric heater while on the dock keeps everything toasty. The hot water heater works well off either the engine or dock power. At anchor off the inverter or on the dock, we have a coffee maker, microwave, toaster, etc and they all work fine. The fridge works even though I don't like it. It's dry - the forward V-berth is comfortable for two. This is luxurious living in a small space and frankly I like it.

I do wonder once in awhile how the non-Medicare eligible set deal with some of this. Back during my introduction to navigation, Orville or maybe it was Wilbur said that one needed to keep track of where you were by looking around but it would get easier. There were road maps and eventually a radio aid or two then ..........and now we have GPS chart plotters. If the U. S. military decided to turn off the GPS satellite system or go back to their encrypted version even temporarily, I'd be annoyed because it makes life easier. But, I wouldn't be lost - charts and keeping track are a habit. Is that true with everyone including those that have always had good electronic help? I suppose this has been debated endlessly at some time on this site.

I do like the luxury of these new boats. Have done it the hard way before and don't have any desire to do it again. But sometimes I do wonder -
ICE was simpler.
 
With all the knowledge on this site, maybe someone can explain why diesel fuel is selling for more than premium gas. It was $3. 41 a gal this week in Kalispell, Montana. I know freight has something to do with it, but than gas is shipped in as well. Gas is about $2.94. Once a long time ago I heard on TV that there is an additive to diesel that is imported and has become very expensive. You never hear trucking companys complain. They just pass the cost on to you and I. We don't complain about the price of diesel, just gas.

Norcold and their retailers (West Marine & Camper World ) have advised me to throw away the 100 lb Norcold chest freezer. $1200 worth. The repair people said they didn't know why it would work for awhile than defrost. I took the freezer to three different repair stations. I replaced the thermostat, now it runs all the time and does not cycle and then defrosts after about a week. It is about 5 yrs old, looks about as good as a new one. Hard to haul it to the dump.
Any experts on this subject?

Captd
 
I ran across some interesting information about the new, low-sulphur diesel process at a small town's CO-OP truck stop, having my motorhome tires balanced.

Some truckers there say that they are swamped with jobs from the Oklahoma Oil Refineries hauling a type of fertilizer which is made from the sulphur removed from normal diesel.

Of interest is that, they say, the producers are citing the high costs of sulphur-removing equipment as a "cost" to be added to the price of diesel. However, they are, at the same time, on the other side of the same refining area, making a fortune by selling the stuff they are taking out of the diesel since it is a good fertilizer product!

So, a bit of the classic, double dipping of expense add-ons is occurring in that area.

John
 
captd":3g4u8yw4 said:
<stuff clipped>
Norcold and their retailers (West Marine & Camper World ) have advised me to throw away the 100 lb Norcold chest freezer. $1200 worth. The repair people said they didn't know why it would work for awhile than defrost. I took the freezer to three different repair stations. I replaced the thermostat, now it runs all the time and does not cycle and then defrosts after about a week. It is about 5 yrs old, looks about as good as a new one. Hard to haul it to the dump.
Any experts on this subject?

Captd
Click to expand...

Darrell-

Have you talked to the technical representatives at Norcold about this? Do they advise replacement of the clock or thermostat? Do they have a reasonably local repair center?

You don't say whether you're using this freezer in your boat, RV, or home.

Is it the same dual voltage type that Dr.Bob / Thataway has on his Tomcat 255? (Quoted below:)

"We elected to put a chest type of Norcold freezer/refigerator under the foreward seat, rather than the factory installed front opening refigerator.
We find that we need more freezer space on long trips--and use ice chests for the soft drinks, veggies etc. The chest freezer is about 2 cubic feet and will hold over 100 lbs of fish etc. The chest Freezer/refigerator runs on both 110V AC and 12 volt DC. "

Next question: Are you running it on AC or DC mostly? Continuously or intermittently? You might be able to "jury rig" it, if you want to!

If you're running it intermittently (few days or a week or two) at a time and on DC, I'd suggest you bypass the temperature / timer/defrost mechanism and just turn it on and off manually a time or two a day just like a cold plate. Get a good thermometer to keep tabs on the temperature. Buy a kitchen timer to remind you to turn it on and off. This will work while you're on board, at least.

If you're running it pretty much continuously on AC, bypass the temperature / timer / defrost mechanism, then add a AC timer into the 120 VAC line, setting it to come on several. times a day, adjusting it to your climate, etc. Use a thermometer again, etc. You can buy timers of various degrees of sophistication at a hardware store, and I'm guessing that a normal household lamp timer will handle the load, and I know that you can get extra little pegs in a kit that will give you multiple time periods during the day.

It certainly would be better to get it fixed right, but a jury-rigged operational $1200 freezer is a lot better than a $1200 freezer laying in the dump!

Joe. :teeth (+10 Redneck Points for Cheap Fix!)

Sea Wolf Engineering...Simple Solutions for Simple Minds!

By the Way, have you seen my new KISS Principle / Home Protection / Swiss Army / Personal Vigilante / Judgement Day Device?

WHY FIX IT SIMPLE WHEN YOU CAN OVER-ENGINEER IT RIGHT OFF THE PLANET!

redneck_swiss_army_gun.jpg


(JUST FOR FUN)
 
One has to distinguish between the heater/absorbtion/amonia gas refigeration vs the compresser type. The heater type is most effecient on propane, but a very bad choice for the C Dory, because of the issue of ventiallation and propane. If these are used on 12 volts, the heating elements uses a large amount of power--although I certainly think a 125 amp alternator would keep up--even at 50% capacity. The boat should be isolated from the truck changing circuit by a diode or a voltage sensitative relay. Most trucks have a charging circuit on the 7 pin trailer plug--and it is easily rigged to charge the boat battery when on the road.

Generally in the past, friends who are refigeration technicians feel that it is economically not to your advantage to replace the compresser in the small Norcold units. On the other hand, I have had very good "luck" with the chest type--15 years with the first one (which died do to exposure to salt spray) and about 15 years on the current one and still going strong.
 
Sea Wolf":38jdm9wi said:
By the Way, have you seen my new KISS Principle / Home Protection / Swiss Army / Personal Vigilante / Judgement Day Device?
Click to expand...

SOMEONE has entirely too much free time on their hands! :P

Warren
 
Joe,
Yes it is a 12 volt D.C. or 110 volt A.C. 100 lbs. We use it in the back seat of a 4 dr. pickup. Like I said we have had two of these over the years. We have had zero problems with them using it in this fashion. Really great for a trip to Alaska or hauling shrimp back from Florida. The only boat we used it on was the 45 ft'er ( Chris Craft.) Hurricane Floyd filled it half full of salt water and which destroyed it. It was in the closet in the rear state room. (It would have been a rough ride if we were aboard at that time.) The storm blew in three doors to get the water into the freezer. We never carried it on the C-Dory. Just to big. We would not carry it on the Tug for the same reason. The 60 pd model would be better than most refrigerators in boats. That might be our replacement.

When I called Norcold and told them of my experience with the freezer and the three repair stations I took it to. They told me to call E&B Marine that they were experts on MFT 60. They gave me the phone number. I called it and the phone was answered:" West Marine, May I help you?" Shows you how up to date they are on their dealers. West Marine bought out E&B years ago. She proceeded to tell me they don't do any repairs. Daa......
Joe, we used it on 12 volt most of the time. When pulling into a campground and had 110 volts available, we would plug the freezer back into the camper for the night.

I think I will take it to a local frig, freezer repair and see if they can cobble up some kind of cure.

The battery discharging problem was always with the three way frig in the campers. They seem to draw much more power than the chest type. The propane portion is much more efficient than 12 volt. Possibly the reason the alternator of the tow rig cannot keep up is maybe the charge is limited by the converter in the camper which is always only about 5 amps or so. We found this out with the Ranger on the shake down cruise. Factory installed converter is or at least was much to small.( 5 amps)

Captd

PS. Joe, where can I buy a rig like that? We need something like that here in Montana. Looks like a perfect poaching machine. The only thing missing is a frying pan.
 
CaptD-

Thanks for the fill-in on your freezer!

Sounds like finding a local repair shop with someone who understands what he's doing (sadly somewhat less common these days) is the best plan.

Too bad we've shifted so far towards a use/discard/replace mode from one of build a quality product/service & fix it mode.

Good Luck with your project!

P.S.:

I don't really know where you can get one of those devices/poaching tools. It came from a Google Image Search, but Alasgun Mike, I'm sure, could made one up in his shop and customize it to your personal dimensions and tastes!

Trivia Quiz:

How many of youse guys are old enough to remember where the silver lady's head, flowing hair, wings, and body part of the gun came from?

Joe.
 
Hood ornament off a packard, or something similar. I have seen them before, just can't remember where. Maybe if I can remember how to get home I can look it up.
 
This is really showing my age! She was called "Winged Victory" and was featured on Packard Hoods. Too bad I can't remember where I left my car keys!
 
Roger-

Thanks for pinning the hood ornament down.

I remember a lot of them, some of them looking similar to the one we're talking about.

Looking up images of hood ornaments on Google, somewhat similar ones can be found on Pontiacs, Cadillacs, and even a NASH!!!

Remember the ones on Pontiacs that had an amber facet in the figurene's head and a light inside? Cool!!!

136105438_7516567fe2.jpg

Joe.
 
***

What a great web site we have access to........
where it provided me with all of my Norcold answers
from the great year of 2007.
I will sleep peacefully on-board tonight knowing that
with only two months remaining in 2011,
Lady KC's Norcold
is working as they have always worked,
on for 90 seconds, off for 4 minutes,
....all day all night (maryanne).........woe is me.........lol


Thanks to all who gave such informative information back in 2007, that was soooo helpful today,

***
 
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