Solar Vents, Sunsei vs Nicro vs Nicro Combo

J

John S

New member
I've spent this evening reading thru the archives for hours on ventilation issues.

We get so........much condensation in the cabin that we actually sop it up with a sponge in the morning. Condensation dribbles down all the windows and puddles on me while I'm sleeping at night.

I read about the spray on insulation, interesting stuff, but by the time it warms up enough to apply it I want to be playing on the boat. I read about some people gluing carpet to the walls, but that sounds like a wet mildewing mess to me. or not:?: It's so bad we even bought a 110V dehumidfier to run in the boat while it's sitting in the driveway to try and dry it up.

I'm sure I want to install some kind of ventilation fan. Looking for anyones latest thoughts on the different options available. Any other ideas for battling my condensation issues would also be appreciated.

The Nicro comes in the solar only option as a snap in or screw in installation. The Nicro solar/12V combo comes as a snap in only. I have no idea what this snap-in installation is. I hope someone can educate me. My plans have been to install this in the front hatch, as we will be putting a dinghy on the roof. Sure appreciate any thoughts; it is often cloudy where we boat.

Thanks,
John

I'm looking at the Nicro Solar Vent

N20503B-CMYK-99.jpg


or the Nicro Solar/12V combo
N20704COW-CMYK-99.jpg



or the Sunsei Solar Vent
SolarVent_clear.jpg
 
WOW John...sounds like you do have a lot of moisture... Your temps for sure remain much lower than ours, and I too noticed a lot more moisture when it out on the TomCat when it was at about 15 degrees. Just like an ol beer bottle, the warmer side is going to make water. I found I had to open the windows a bit more the colder it got as to allow for a bit more air flow "thru" the boat, that did not have my breathing moisture added to it. It did work the heater a bit harder, but was drier at the same time. The vents look like a good idea too and I was on a Rosborough boat of Tom and Marge's (use to own Pelican that my Brother Mike now has)...and they had a neat vent system on their boat that always allows air flow, but no water.. I can not recall the name of it and will attempt to get with Tom and find out, but I think it is standard equipment on a Rosborough 246 boat. Others more familar with those boats might know the name of the vent. I liked it. I also found it better to keep a big ol box fan moving air around inside the boat as much as possible, which also really helped reduce the front slanted windows/windshield of the TC24 from fogging when under way. Good luck with your vent search.
Byrdman
 
We had a Nicro solar vent - our experience was that even starting with a fully charged battery, there is not enough sun here to maintain the charge to keep it running...might work great in California, Florida or Texas though (Arizona, Colorado, etc.) - too many cloudy gray days, no she go...I think you would be better off with the solar / 12 volt combo.
 
Pat Anderson":qg30kpo8 said:
We had a Nicro solar vent -
Click to expand...

Pat does the "had" mean you were disappointed enough that you removed it???

Byrdman, we have also brought along the BIG box fan, after all the suggestions for its use on this forum, but it is 110V and we only use it with an inverter when we are under power.

I know we need ventilation, but it sure is going to task the Wallas even more to keep it warm in the cabin. It has a hard time keeping up as it is.

We get so much moisture rolling down the big front windows that I've even considered some kind of channeling for it.

It doesn't help that I love pasta, so we end up boiling water on the stove often. :lol:

Should would like to hear more opinions on these vent fans before I make a hole.

John
 
Jeff,

Well that would work, but..........we don't have a microwave on board. When we are out we are never on shore power and currently we don't have a gasoline generator with us. This hasn't been a problem so far, but the microwave would sure pull the batteries down quick.

Tell me more about ceramic heaters.
I noticed you're keeping your boat warm and dry in the Gulf of Mexico instead of the Gulf of Alaska, our enviroment is quite challenging. One place we boat, Prince William Sound, is a rainforest, hence it is raining all the time.

Thanks for the idea, maybe we will squeeze in the microwave some day.
 
OK, I just ordered the Nicro solar powered vent for the CD25 head. Here's my rationale:
1. I want to be able to pull it out, so I have a smooth cabin top either when I've got the boat covered at home, or when I want to store something on top. That limits me to the Nicro solar only. The Sunsi doesn't pop out and the Nicro combo get plumbed into DC (could get a connector.)
2. I hate a black vent but they're on sale at Defender. For $15 off, I guess I don't hate it that much.
3. Nicro has a smaller solar vent, which is cheaper, but attaches directly to the cabin top (free comment.)

Boris
 
Boris,

Is there a cover that you can put in place of the vent, for when you want to take it out?
It sounds like you are you planning on installing it in the roof, any reason there instead of the forward hatch?

John
 
John S-

The little fans, both solar and 12v DC, are nice and will help with moisture in moderate moisture situations or during storage, but to rid your boat of serious breathing moisture, or especially of moisture coming in on wet jackets during rain periods, you're going to have to take some more drastic steps to remove the water vapor. After all, you're talking Alaska, not the tropics!

1. When the boat is moving, the front window panels need two or three 12 v fans directed on them to evaporate condensation. To be effective, the air must circulated be dry enough to cause the evaporation of the condensed moisture. This can require cabin heat in more demanding circumstances.

2. You really have to have two things to dry out the cabin in severe moisture situations. One is a heat source to vaporize the water, and the other is an evacuation system to blow out the moisture laden air.

The heat source can be your Wallas stove, a propane or similar stove, or an electric heater.

Most stoves, which use air from the cabin for combustion and are also externally vented, will both supply the heat to evaporate cabin moisture and also then continuously pipe that moisture out through the exhaust as the internal air is used for combustion.

Often this dual function is enough to evaporate the moisture and remove it from the cabin. However, if you find the heat required from the stove is too much to tolerate, you may have to crack a window or use some form of exhaust fan to limit heat retention in the cabin. A roof vent, either powered or passive, works well here.

It's also worthy to note that some stoves, like the Dickinson Propane Fireplace, draw combusion air in from outside and vent exhaust externally, so they will not remove the moisture like stoves that use cabin air for combustion, and therefore must have a window open or fan venting to assist the removal of moisture from the cabin.

Electric heaters, either powered by shore power or by a generator, likewise heat the cabin air without exhausting it, and venting is again required.

Another aspect of this is that cooking stoves that vent combustion air into the cabin, such as propane burners and alcohol stoves (Origo, for instance), dump a great deal of combustion created moisture directly into the cabin air and require a serious boost in cabin venting during use to control moisture buildup.

While we're at it, we'll also remind everyone that cabin heaters that are not vented externally, like the catalytic Mr. Buddy Heater, are difficult to use in very cold climates because of the combustion moisture they create.

Specifically, they must be used with significant ventilation due to their

1. moisture creation,
2. oxygen depletion, and
3. possibility for carbon monoxide poisioning when used in closed enviornments.

Exactly how much air heating, circulation, and exhausting are required to adequately ventilate your cabin will depend on your climate, your specific boating uses, and other factors.

I'm of the opinion that if you have a good heating, air circulating, and exhaust system that is very adaptable and flexible, it will allow you to enjoy your boat a great deal more in any weather.

Having one or two 12v fans that can be moved around the cabin to distribute the air circulation will provide a lot of adaptability. I have two mounted on Stanley spring clamps that clip to many different places on board.

Hope this helps!

Joe.
 
John S-

Just another note to your specific question about ceramic heaters.

Any electric heater uses the flow of electricity through some resistance, such as a wire or ceramic element, to produce heat as electrons are forced through the heating element by the voltage in the circuit. Energy is changed from electical energy to heat energy which is dissipated into the air.

The simplest method is to use a wire of considerable resistance, often primarily iron in composition, to create heat and to distribute it, usually in conjunction with a fan motor, though there are some radiant heaters without fans.

More recently, ceramic heating elements have become available where the electricity passes through a ventilated ceramic matrix which warms the air, usually again with a fan for distribution.

The chief advantage of the ceramic element is that the heating element itself can be at a lower temperature than a hot wire, and is much less likely to produce sparks in a heater element failure. This is important in a boating enviornment where flamable gas vapors, such as gasoline or propane, might be present, and is the chief advantage of ceramic heaters.

If anyone is unaware of it, the major difference between home, auto, and marine parts for appliances, motors, engines, and other electrical units such as battery chargers, is that marine specific equipment is sealed off in such a way to prevent any electical sparking from being able to ignite gas vapors.

This is of critical importance in equipment used in the bilge of an inboard gasoline powered motorboat, but of lesser importance for kitchen appliances used only occasionally in any boat's galley.

With this in mind, we can understand why a ceramic cabin heater is a safer appliance than one with an exposed hot wire heating element!

And it's not just gas vapors that can create a problem.

An overturned heater of any type can be a problem ona carpeted floor or around clothes or other flamable objects.

For this reason, modern electric heaters have gravity controlled switches in them which will interrupt the power flow in the event of a turnover. Many of the older ones did not have this feature, so I'd recommend you turn yours over sideways as a test to be sure that it will shut itself off. I'd also check those used at home.

I also think most modern heaters have a thermal limiting circuit breaker in them that will shut them off if a certain temperature is exceeded. This is another function to check out in your heaters to be sure it's there and ready to function.

Lastly, I prefer electric heaters for boats that are "flatish" in design rather than tall, narrow ones, simply because they are much less likely to be turned over accidently, especially in a boat. Be sure to place the heater in a protected area away from traffic and flamables as well. Commnon sense goes a long way in preventing senseless tradgedy.

P.S.: It kind of goes without saying, but I would again remind everyone that any 120 VAC electric heater in a boat be wired through a system that includes a 15 amp circuit breaker and a GFI protected receptacle.

Joe.
 
Correct. Actually, I didn't remove it - I was going to - but when the guys who returned my boat from Ketchikan to Blaine got back, I discovered they had evidently knocked the vent cap off somewhere along the way and lost it. But I was going to remove it, the battery wouldn't stay charged, the vent cap wouldn't stay put (had Mickey Mouse tabs to hold it in place), and it was just generally unsatisfactory for us. We now have a vent with a stainless cap plus a 12 volt fan.

John S":3vspv05j said:
Pat Anderson":3vspv05j said:
We had a Nicro solar vent -
Click to expand...

Pat does the "had" mean you were disappointed enough that you removed it???


John
Click to expand...
 
John S: Looks like you need a good size inverter on your boat, particuarly with your area, and pasta dishes. Same deal with me when I love to have a nice shrimp boil on board. I HAD TO HAVE the 20" box fan running most of the time on the boat. I liked it warm inside. Fixed a "hook-like" gizmo on/next to my fire ext mounted on the back wall as to hang the wet jackets aft, as to keep them away from the slanted windows. I also had the roto-type DC fans mounted on the top, outside corners of the two outside windshield windows....but they simply do not move enough air, particuarly during the shrimp boiling times, and....the hot shrimp on the plates once boiled still set off more steam....closer to the front windows. We can not have our cake and eat it too.... Everything is a compramise. But, a bunch of air moving with the low speed of the box fan (moved about the boat for differant needs) really made the entire boat more enjoyable to include warming the air near the floor, and keeping moisture down on the windshield. I kept the aft wall windows cracked about 1/2-1" as well as both forward side windows, and the front hatch too. In your continues colder climates, you might just need to "help" the wallas along a bit with an additional heat source..... Just review Joe's "making heat on a boat" review above, and pick your additional heat source. You might find that a little 2,000 Honda or similar gen set may provide for some nice comforts that you seem to be chasing....and, if all else fails, I found the sqeegy gizmo for drying cars that is way flexible, made out in CA somewhere I think, when combined with a nice rag, did well for removing the moisture quickly if the fans got behind, or, as Joe stated....the moist air won over the dry air available.

Byrdman
 
The 20" box fan is cumbersome on a 16. Ryobie makes a 18 volt cordless fan about 12". The same battery as the drill snaps in and will last more than a day before recharge. It is several times bigger than the usual size 3" fans on a boat and is quiet.
 
Boris,

Is there a cover that you can put in place of the vent, for when you want to take it out?
It sounds like you are you planning on installing it in the roof, any reason there instead of the forward hatch?

John
Click to expand...

John, the vent has a "snap in" mount. It comes with a snap in cover for use when the vent is taken out. I think thats great and have used it.
It'll be mounted on the roof because I want to vent the head. Our v-berth stayed dry last summer, and in the winter we boat at the edge of a desert (San Diego.) On the other hand, the head smells. When you cut through the plastic of the hatch, be careful you don't crack the plastic, and smooth the edges.

Boris
 
Thank you for all the wonderful thoughts and knowledge. Joe especially for spending so much time explaining the subject and suggested solutions.

Pat, thanks for detailing your Nicro problems/concerns. I will almost definitely not go with solar only. Now you do have me concerned with the Nicro snap-in installation. Did you replace with a Nicro 12 Volt or a competitor's that stays in the hole better???

We are already running the clip on fans, in fact we burned up one last summer, they are noisy and annoying, but they work. Anyone have a favorite, reliable brand in these??? A link maybe???

We started carrying the 20" box fan late last summer, but man did that thing get in the way, we were only using it while underpower to conserve batteries.

It sounds like running the Wallas more would help, Joe pointed out the fact that not only is it heating, but it is exhausting too and obviously we need all the exhaust we can get.

We have a portable propane camp stove, it would probably help if I boiled my pasta and shrimp out back in the cockpit over the top of the fish box.

On board portable heaters make me a little nervous and although it's easy to say just run it somewhere out of the way. We haven't found an out of the way place on our TC24 for heaters. We have a really hard time keeping the temperature up when it is dark, raining and chilly at night. We have brought our Mr. Buddy Heater to supplement the Wallas, but then we've triggered the O2 sensor on it and caused it to shut down, so not a great solution. Our cabin often sits around 50 to 55 degrees at night. We usually crack a back window about an inch during the night.

We've been scared to go to sleep with the Wallas running after we experienced a couple of those exhaust backing up scenarios that people have described fairly regularly on here. (We haven't had one lately and we've completely replumbed the exhaust)

I did get the CO Experts CO detector for Christmas (as recommended on this forum) So maybe I'll feel more comfortable sleeping with the Wallas going, although then I'll worry about waking with dead batteries.

It sounds like a generator is in our near future. Does it have to be the EU2000 instead of the 1000???

Thanks for the great discussion.

John
 
Certainly some excellent discussions. The "Endlass Breeze" which is a 3 speed RV fan is excellent for 12 volt use. Almost as good is the $15 or less WalMart 8 D battery fan--it has two speeds and you can make a 12 volt adaptor for it. Really no reason for the large 110 volt fans.

We use two of the small Hella Fans on the Windshield. We also have a large Hella /Fan over the Wallas--with these fans, one gets very good air flow. When we were cruising our Cal 46 in Alaska, we ran into these condensation problems (already had several Nico vents on Dorade boxes).
We lined all of the hull with "Fish blanket" This was in the hardwarestores for about $20 a 4 `x 8 foot sheet. Seemed to be a PVC foam 1/2 to 5/8" thick. Surface was smooth--and used between layers of fish and ice in the boats. This basically solved the problems. If necessary we even covered the windows with this (we had circulating hot water heat, with fresh air and external exhaust on the diesel fired boiler). The Wallas is good, because it exhaust externally, and keeps dryer than propane.

I can not find "fish Blanket" in Pensacola (I guess the fish are warm enough)--but Wal Mart has back packing insullating pads which are relitative similar and only slightly more expensive--they are green, so not so good a finish. We are gluing this in place with liquid nails (as we did with the fish blanket) and covering with a headliner material. This will help both the cold/condensation issue--and the heat on the hull in the summer. The boats are much more comfortable if insullated.

For a dehumidifier--consider "Mighty Dri"--a small boat compresser dehumidifier--a bit pricey, but works better and is marine grade--in comparison to the Sears and Lowes's units.
 
Ah geze, I suppose I better post here to--- so I don't get throwed-out-on-my-ear... :o

John. Far as the ventilator goes; it may help a minute amount with condensation, but
the primary thing I like it for is to keep the cabin air from going stale. (I suppose that also helps with mildew). To some it may not worth cutting a huge hole for, but for me I would do it
again, mostly for reasons of sitting a while. (in the slip or on the trailer) I think if you have carpet, it is all the more a necessity.

About the carpet lining: It does completely eliminate the dripping in the cabin, but it also collects a lot of moisture. It all depends a lot on the humidity in the air as well. (!!) I have done well at keeping black mold at bay, by drying the cabin out with a big fan (door wide open) when I get home from winter --and even some summer-- trips. One winter trip in the PW Sound in mid February (11 days strait) was a really good test for just the carpet lining alone, (with no insulation under it). Back when I did my cabin, I did not know about them fancy ceramic coating insulations, otherwise if I would have done it that way. I would be willing to bet there would be almost no moisture in the carpet.
In temps about freezing and well below freezing at night: The 5th day of the trip, there was noticeable moisture in the carpet, and getting worse. Never to the point of showing ice, but you could tell there was definitely a time limit before things went bad. :x

One thing you can do to prevent mold (besides getting a good ozone machine to shock-treat the cabin) is to remove all berth cushions, before putting the boat away (!) also getting every thing away from the lining that is trapping moisture. I think if you can be consistent with that, you will find many good years of service out of carpet lining alone, without having to dump a lot more time and money into prepping with the spray-on insulations. If you do have the dough though... I would definitely do both! One does not have to go on with carpet, but it sure makes the boat acoustics better! (Crank up them tunes mon). lol :note :beer

Oh, the ventilator does not exhaust much on the short days, (solar powered) :hot but it is always providing some ventilation, running or not.

Now, I gotta get.... poof
:bat
 
Whats up John S? I live in Soldotna. Hope to see you out sometime. Question, how do these things mount. Do you have to cut a circle out of your roof or hatch?
 
Years ago I had a 22' cabin cruiser that had moisture problems...and used a nicro solar vent....it worked super...and one of the nice things is that you can reverse the blades so it will either pull air in or push air out.... In California I never had any problems with not enough sun....it really does not take much...even cloudy days would make it run.

What I use to dry a boat in the morning if it is damp is a clay flower pot upside down on the stove.... on the lowest setting...it will get cherry red and work like the best heater you ever saw... all for about 59 cents.
(I have a propane stove)

Joel
SEA3PO
 
When my boat is in storage, and to prevent mildew problems I just leave a bare lamp bulb on... (old table lamp) about 100 watts.....that dries it fine and prevents mildew... also kinda cool to look out and see da lights on.

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Back
Top