Sink and stove mod on a 19

[South of Heaven]

So it's all downhill from here....

I dropped off my 19 this evening to my mechanic. He's gonna be installing a SS sink, 5 gallon fresh water tank and a drain/thru hull on the port aft seat area.

On the starboard side aft seat area he's installing a single propane burner grille.

Both the sink and the stove will be mounted in 3/4 inch custom starboard boxes.

I'm also having a blue LED drain light wired from Diablo Royale. That will match my current LED lighting.

http://boatpluglight.com/

SO.... My main concern is the thru hull. It's above the water line but I'm still freaking out!

 

[Sunbeam]

The boat plug light makes me a little nervous - at least the way its presented on the company web site (not sure how you plan to use it). They say, "Light up your wake," and show boats underway with their wakes lit up in green, red, blue, etc.
Seems like (especially) a green or red lit up stern wake would conflict with navigation lights (white only to the stern; red to port; green to starboard).

 

[South of Heaven]

The boat plug light makes me a little nervous - at least the way its presented on the company web site (not sure how you plan to use it). They say, "Light up your wake," and show boats underway with their wakes lit up in green, red, blue, etc.
Seems like (especially) a green or red lit up stern wake would conflict with navigation lights (white only to the stern; red to port; green to starboard).

I purchased the blue one.

 

[Sunbeam]

Just to clarify, I wasn't thinking specifically of you (you probably wouldn't use any of them underway), but just musing that it seems like a poor product marketing/choice by the company. Mostly because they encourage a buyer to "light up your wake," and show many boats doing just that (vs. using them at a dock or something), and with red/green lights to boot.

Actually though, now I'm curious: What do they have you putting in place of your plug? I hope it's sturdy and not just a light bulb! (It must be...)

 

[Lollygaggin]

Sunbeam,
You bring up a good point. Our water way has a large house boat that charters as a party boat and has bright red and green lights (possibly lasers) flashing on a large disco type ball that reflects the lights in all directions. Can you imagine the confusion one experiences on a cloudy moonless night when this thing appears on the horizon and you have no way of knowing what course it's on or even how big it is. It just keeps getting closer. Future encounters are a bit scary even when you know what this thing is.

I do think the colors that are associated with navigation should not be made available for other purposes, no matter how beautiful they are when shining through the water and reflecting off all the polished stainless steel.

Chris

 

[South of Heaven]

Just to clarify, I wasn't thinking specifically of you (you probably wouldn't use any of them underway), but just musing that it seems like a poor product marketing/choice by the company. Mostly because they encourage a buyer to "light up your wake," and show many boats doing just that (vs. using them at a dock or something), and with red/green lights to boot.

Actually though, now I'm curious: What do they have you putting in place of your plug? I hope it's sturdy and not just a light bulb! (It must be...)

I see boats all over the Boston Harbor with FULL underwater blue lights that light the water almost 360 degrees around. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't use red or green though. I agree that that seems like a bad idea. I think originally boaters were installing underwater lights for fishing purposes. Now most boats that I see with them are just looking for the "cool" factor. Lol. I'm in that category. I think it'll look awesome!

Yes, it's a sturdy plug. It's hard to tell from the website pictures. When you twist the base it expands/contracts the rubber plug...just like how a T handle works on the normal plugs that we all use. Then on the inside (fuel tank area), there is a quick disconnect to disconnect from the battery wire. Easy peezey.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I don't get it. What does the light do?

Mark

 

[South of Heaven]

I don't get it. What does the light do?

Mark

Nothing. It's a purely aesthetic mod only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SjgH0eNAqs

 

[Sunbeam]

I don't get it. What does the light do?

Mark

Here is a photo from the company website. "Light up the wake."

Seems to have it all: Underway on the platform, no (visible) PFD, can of [?beverage] in hand, and green lights astern...



But South of Heaven, just to not totally drag down your mods post - I bet your sink/stove will be super useful! On the through hull and being nervous: At least it's going through non-cored hull, plus above the static water line. I would specify that it be bronze or 316 stainless if it were me, but that's just personal preference.

 

[South of Heaven]

Sunbeam: But can't water still find it's way down into the cored parts of the hull if the seal isn't 100% water tight? I really hate to add a thru hull but when he was explaining the pros/cons of having a water discharge hose to me it seemed like a risk I was willing to take. It would've been a pain to have to empty the gray water after every trip.

 

[Sunbeam]

Sunbeam: But can't water still find it's way down into the cored parts of the hull if the seal isn't 100% water tight?

That should not be possible unless something is REALLY wrong. Here's why I say that: The solid (non-cored) topsides (which is where you will be putting your though hull) is a lamination of fiberglass and resin. Once that has cured, it's basically one solid piece.

Much further down (by the chine) the hull is made differently. There you have two "skins" (each of which is a fiberglass lamination) with core in between. There is really no practical way for water to make its way "though" a solid lamination, down to where the core is, then into the core.

The only reason I hedge slightly is something that is remotely possible but extremely, extremely unlikely. Maybe there is a .000000001% chance. That is that there could theoretically be a void in the layup (an air pocket between the various layers of cloth that make up the solid laminate. Then this pocket would have to extend down to the chine. THEN it would have to connect to the core. I am as concerned with core intrusion as anyone (have re-cored several boats... ugh), and even I would not worry about this. The boat is probably more likely to be hit by an asteroid.

That's not to say that care shouldn't be taken in installing a through hull, because it should. But water getting into the core from the location of a sink drain in one of the strakes is not really one of the potential problems with this particular install.

(This would be completely different if you were putting a through hull into the bottom of the boat below the waterline and in the cored area - whole different ball game.)

 

[South of Heaven]

Sunbeam: But can't water still find it's way down into the cored parts of the hull if the seal isn't 100% water tight?

That should not be possible unless something is REALLY wrong. Here's why I say that: The solid (non-cored) topsides (which is where you will be putting your though hull) is a lamination of fiberglass and resin. Once that has cured, it's basically one solid piece.

Much further down (by the chine) the hull is made differently. There you have two "skins" (each of which is a fiberglass lamination) with core in between. There is really no practical way for water to make its way "though" a solid lamination, down to where the core is, then into the core.

The only reason I hedge slightly is something that is remotely possible but extremely, extremely unlikely. Maybe there is a .000000001% chance. That is that there could theoretically be a void in the layup (an air pocket between the various layers of cloth that make up the solid laminate. Then this pocket would have to extend down to the chine. THEN it would have to connect to the core. I am as concerned with core intrusion as anyone (have re-cored several boats... ugh), and even I would not worry about this. The boat is probably more likely to be hit by an asteroid.

That's not to say that care shouldn't be taken in installing a through hull, because it should. But water getting into the core from the location of a sink drain in one of the strakes is not really one of the potential problems with this particular install.

(This would be completely different if you were putting a through hull into the bottom of the boat below the waterline and in the cored area - whole different ball game.)

That makes me feel a bit more comfortable with the process then. Good info. Thanks

 

[thataway]

Am I correct that you are not putting the light in the sink drain, but in the aft hull drain?

There have been some jurisdictions (mostly Florida) where citations have been given for any blue lights, because blue is reserved for law enforcement only

I personally don't see the reason for any underwater lights, unless you are attracting fish or bait fish. But there are a lot of things I don't "understand" about the modern world!

 

[South of Heaven]

Am I correct that you are not putting the light in the sink drain, but in the aft hull drain?

There have been some jurisdictions (mostly Florida) where citations have been given for any blue lights, because blue is reserved for law enforcement only

I personally don't see the reason for any underwater lights, unless you are attracting fish or bait fish. But there are a lot of things I don't "understand" about the modern world!

Yes, Bob. It's for the stern drain plug.

 

[ZoeB]

If you can, get your mechanic to take some pictures of the mods while in the process.

 

[South of Heaven]

Here's a video of my new sink, stove and dual adjustable fan. I basically copied Tinker Toy's layout! Although his craftsmanship looks a lot better. BTW, in my video the water pressure is low and noisy because my fresh water tank is almost empty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIs97eQNjJQ

My mechanic fabricated 2 boxes out of 1/2 inch Starboard. He then put in 2 accordion style hinges; cool design. The outside of the boxes he dressed up with oak trim. The boxes are VERY sturdy and will still be used as passenger seats. He added some snaps for the Sunbrella seats to accommodate the the added height.

SINK: I have a SS steel sink which is flush mounted in the port box. There is a faucet that folds down and the switch is inside the box. Below the seat there is a 7 gallon tank with a Jabsco pump. All the fittings were sealed with 4200 and hose clamped. The drain hose to the thru hull is heavy duty and DOUBLE hose clamped.

STOVE: The single propane burner is on the starboard side. It is very securely fastened. The 1lb propane tank line is foldable and lays nearly flat when not in use. I keep the small propane underneath and secured it with a bungee style cord. It's not going anywhere....Cool setup.

FAN: The fan is mounted just port of the top storage area. It has 2 speed settings and each fan can be moved to many different angles.

THE SCARY PART: My thru hull is only about 4 inches above the top of the water line....or top of the bottom paint. If you look at the level of the scuppers it's below that on the next down chine. The mechanic thought that was a good place to put it; I agreed with him because I thought it was above the water because the bottom paint was 4 inches below that.
LONG STORY SHORT, it's not completely below the water line! There are times when at rest on the water it will go under briefly. It just depends on the waves or weight distribution on the boat.
Now, I've inspected the hole from under the storage area and I know that the water will never come up the drain tube....It's practically impossible from a physics point of view. The tube is very close to vertical. Sometimes some water will enter the bottom of the tube and then it'll flow out immediately. So because sea water will never flow up the drain tube, then I guess what I should focus my attention on is to periodically check the hose clamps and any other fittings. If THOSE fail then I'll have water coming inside BUT that's the only way. Right??
At this point I'm more worried about the thru hull itself...Is that bottom chine cored or just fiberglass? The mechanic assured me that the hole is 110% sealed and watertight but I'm always a skeptical person. I like having facts and figures; not lip service and smiles.

Aside from all that, I love the boat!!!! and new mods! LOL

 

[South of Heaven]

My infamous new thru hull.....

 

[thataway]

Looks nice. The hull at that point--any of the sides vertical surface--is solid fiberglass.

It appears that the "thru hull' is nylon. If so I am not a big fan. I have had some break--You would be safer with a SS or bronze thru hull. The worry is not water coming up the drain, into the sink--although in a seaway, that is always possible, but if the the hull broke it could allow considerable amount of watering the boat. The good news is that you would know it if you are aboard.

All the fittings were sealed with 4200 and hose clamped.

Did your mechanic put 4200 on the thru hull barbs and then fit the hose over the fitting? Double hose clamping on any fitting below the waterline is proper--and any fitting below the waterline should have a proper sea cock on the thru hull. One this close, I probably would have put a sea cock or at least a ball valve on--but that is a judgement call.

 

[South of Heaven]

Looks nice. The hull at that point--any of the sides vertical surface--is solid fiberglass.

It appears that the "thru hull' is nylon. If so I am not a big fan. I have had some break--You would be safer with a SS or bronze thru hull. The worry is not water coming up the drain, into the sink--although in a seaway, that is always possible, but if the the hull broke it could allow considerable amount of watering the boat. The good news is that you would know it if you are aboard.

All the fittings were sealed with 4200 and hose clamped.

Did your mechanic put 4200 on the thru hull barbs and then fit the hose over the fitting? Double hose clamping on any fitting below the waterline is proper--and any fitting below the waterline should have a proper sea cock on the thru hull. One this close, I probably would have put a sea cock or at least a ball valve on--but that is a judgement call.

1. Did your nylon thru hull break after years of use? Or sooner?

2. Would I be able to inspect the hose and see the 4200 near the fitting? The hose is semi-transparent.

3. Would a nylon thru-hull be strong enough to handle a sea-cock or ball valve fitting? I'm definitely ABOVE the waterline, just not all the time.

 

[thataway]

ABYC 27.4.4 Seacock — A type of valve used to control intake or discharge of water through the hull. It is operated by a lever type handle usually operating through a 90° arc, giving a clear indication of whether it is open or shut, and is typically of the two following types:
27.4.4.1 Flanged Sea Valve — A Seacock with an integral flange used to individually and securely mount the device directly to the boat hull structure.

27.4.4.2 In Line Ball Valve — A Seacock designed to be supported entirely by the through-hull fitting.

Now is your thru hull below the water line or not? I would so consider it, since you do see that water comes thru it when the boat is at with any chop,

A proper sea cock;

This may be a bit of "overkill" for a CDory"--but what is proper. If you put a sea cock on, or even a thru hull with a threaded tail piece you put a ball valve on, it should have solid fiberglass thru the hull (can be thickened epoxy), and a backing block.

As for the number of "plastic" or "nylon--un-reinforced I consider them not satisfactory for a thru near the waterline. Marlon is an impact-resistant, noncombustible, fiberglass-reinforced material with UV inhibitors, formulated for marine applications. Some like this--I tend to avoid it, because I have seen it break.

I have seen new nylon thru hulls break. I have seen ones which I have no idea of their age break. Certainly with time, there is more likely to have a failure due to UV light degradation of the plastic material. I do have one thru hull bilge pump discharge nylon fitting, which I check the inside and outside regularly--it is 18" above the actual waterline. I have 3 thru hulls, which are 12" above the waterline and are SS.

The answer to is a white nylon thru hull strong enough for a valve?--is no, it is not strong enough.

I don't understand your question about the 4200--what did the mechanic do? Is the hose clear, or is it re-inforced with nylon threads? I always use re-inforced for a drain.