Electrical isn't one of my better skills. I'm patient enough to get it done but it's still pretty much a mystery to me how it all works. What I'm doing is replacing the simple wiring in my 16' Angler. Not much to it but I'm already stuck. When I tore the old wires out it looked awful and was a real patch job. One thing that confused me was that all of the negative wires terminated on a fused bus. The positive wires went directly to switches in the dash with no fuses. Is this typical for a marine installation? What confused me even more was that the new bank of fused switches had a common wire that went across all the switches that terminated at one of the mounting screws on the face plate. Why would a positive wire be terminated to a screw that is exposed on the dash where it could be accidentally grounded? Also all of the wires on the switch panel were red going into the fuses and black coming out where they would connect to incoming devices. I'm thinking marine wiring must be reverse of automotive? Black is negative and white is power right? That would explain the main wire on the switch assembly being attached to one of its mounting screws. I bought a simple negative bus with six posts. Should I just reverse everything and use the negative bus as a positive bus and run the negative wires through the fused switches? I'm lost.
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Simple wiring project?
- Thread starter hoorenga
- Start date
hoorenga":1c68frsk said:Electrical isn't one of my better skills. I'm patient enough to get it done but it's still pretty much a mystery to me how it all works. What I'm doing is replacing the simple wiring in my 16' Angler. Not much to it but I'm already stuck. When I tore the old wires out it looked awful and was a real patch job. One thing that confused me was that all of the negative wires terminated on a fused bus. The positive wires went directly to switches in the dash with no fuses. Is this typical for a marine installation? What confused me even more was that the new bank of fused switches had a common wire that went across all the switches that terminated at one of the mounting screws on the face plate. Why would a positive wire be terminated to a screw that is exposed on the dash where it could be accidentally grounded? Also all of the wires on the switch panel were red going into the fuses and black coming out where they would connect to incoming devices. I'm thinking marine wiring must be reverse of automotive? Black is negative and white is power right? That would explain the main wire on the switch assembly being attached to one of its mounting screws. I bought a simple negative bus with six posts. Should I just reverse everything and use the negative bus as a positive bus and run the negative wires through the fused switches? I'm lost.
Doug-
1. Roger's right-photos would be essential to understand this, if at all possible! *
2. I'd rip it all out and start from scratch after reading about the standard wiring technique used in small boat marine systems to refresh my memory, etc.
That way you'll understand exactly what you're doing from the get-go without trying to incorporate the existing wiring and it's abnormalities.
*(Sounds like it was wired by Dr. Haywire from the Electro-Shock Institute.)
Good Luck!
Joe. :teeth :thup
On our boat there's a wire that leapfrogs from one breaker to the next and ties them all together, but that one powers the switch back lights.
My panel has a resettable fuse next to each switch, and then I have an accessory fuse panel below that has 6 or 8 more (unswitched) terminals with blade fuse slots.
I don't think the manufacturer strictly followed color coding convention. On our boat, all cables are black from the battery to the house breaker to the panel. At the panel, there's some color coding sprinkled in, but mostly it's grey wires and whatever color wiring the devices used (i.e. black/grey/purple for the wipers).
I have dozens of places behind the panel where 12V studs/terminals are exposed, but this is all covered up with a snap in Sunbrella panel. If it were line voltage, you'd want every connection safely inside a box/panel/cover. But 12V won't harm a person, and if it is shorted somehow at the panel, it should pop the house breaker (do you have one?). My house breaker is next to the battery switch output, not in the cabin.
My panel has a resettable fuse next to each switch, and then I have an accessory fuse panel below that has 6 or 8 more (unswitched) terminals with blade fuse slots.
I don't think the manufacturer strictly followed color coding convention. On our boat, all cables are black from the battery to the house breaker to the panel. At the panel, there's some color coding sprinkled in, but mostly it's grey wires and whatever color wiring the devices used (i.e. black/grey/purple for the wipers).
I have dozens of places behind the panel where 12V studs/terminals are exposed, but this is all covered up with a snap in Sunbrella panel. If it were line voltage, you'd want every connection safely inside a box/panel/cover. But 12V won't harm a person, and if it is shorted somehow at the panel, it should pop the house breaker (do you have one?). My house breaker is next to the battery switch output, not in the cabin.
Just a note, it's not the volts but the amps that gets you. 12V definitely can cause harm or even death if it's of sufficient amperage - especially if current passes from one hand to another (passing by the heart). So treat those 12V leads (with thick wires) carefully. Also, there are many documented cases in which 120V and 12V wires on boats have come in contact with each other thereby bringing the boat's 12V system up to 120V. So it's good advice to disconnect the AC prior to working on the DC system just to be sure.ferret30":3qhivamx said:<stuff clipped>
I have dozens of places behind the panel where 12V studs/terminals are exposed, but this is all covered up with a snap in Sunbrella panel. If it were line voltage, you'd want every connection safely inside a box/panel/cover. But 12V won't harm a person, <more stuff clipped>.
rogerbum":1dy7pke0 said:Just a note, it's not the volts but the amps that gets you. 12V definitely can cause harm or even death if it's of sufficient amperage - especially if current passes from one hand to another (passing by the heart).
I don't believe that's true, but it's been a while since EE/physics classes. Your body has too high of resistance to allow much current from 12V. If you have enough current to kill traveling through you (i.e. arm to arm), then the voltage drop is much higher than 12V.
Either way it is still smart to switch off batteries when working wiring so you don't damage the battery or burn fuses.
And removing shore power is definitely smart given that your shore power ground is bonded to the 12V negative side, and a fault in an AC circuit or device can energize the 12V system.
potter water
New member
Hopefully I'm on the right thread.
You clearly have a mess. You will be safest to start all over. First, there needs to be a big 'ol fuse not more than six inches or so away from your battery. Then, the downstream side of that fuse should go to a buss bar with a red wire appropriately sized. on the other side of that buss bar will be screws, each supplying power to one of your devices. Run a red wire from terminal number one to fuse or circuit breaker number one. Out of that circuit breaker run another red wire to...say the depth finder. Repeat for as many devices as you have, appropriately sizing the fuse/circuit breaker.
As for the negative side of the batter. NO fuse in the negative size. Run the negative terminal of the battery to another buss bar. I mean it is literally a bar with a big 'ol terminal for the neg of the battery. And a bunch of screw terminals to run the neg sides....black wires all...of your devices. NO fuse in the negative sides.
In short, all grounds to the common neg battery terminal buss bar.
All positive power from the battery to distribution bar that will have a big ol' screw for the positive lead from downstream of the batter pos big fuse. then smaller screws for each of the pos (red) leads to your devices.
That is the quick and simple for a 16 foot boat. At least, that is what I've done on many boats for decades with no bad results.
If you are doing salt water, be sure to use splices in wires that are sealed with stuff to keep the salt out.
Lots of good sites in the internet with simple to complex wiring schemes. But you won't go too wrong with what I've given you.
Also, tie wire bundles neatly and route them nicely. No birds nests like the one you have when you are done. 5% more time to make it look nice is a good investment.
You clearly have a mess. You will be safest to start all over. First, there needs to be a big 'ol fuse not more than six inches or so away from your battery. Then, the downstream side of that fuse should go to a buss bar with a red wire appropriately sized. on the other side of that buss bar will be screws, each supplying power to one of your devices. Run a red wire from terminal number one to fuse or circuit breaker number one. Out of that circuit breaker run another red wire to...say the depth finder. Repeat for as many devices as you have, appropriately sizing the fuse/circuit breaker.
As for the negative side of the batter. NO fuse in the negative size. Run the negative terminal of the battery to another buss bar. I mean it is literally a bar with a big 'ol terminal for the neg of the battery. And a bunch of screw terminals to run the neg sides....black wires all...of your devices. NO fuse in the negative sides.
In short, all grounds to the common neg battery terminal buss bar.
All positive power from the battery to distribution bar that will have a big ol' screw for the positive lead from downstream of the batter pos big fuse. then smaller screws for each of the pos (red) leads to your devices.
That is the quick and simple for a 16 foot boat. At least, that is what I've done on many boats for decades with no bad results.
If you are doing salt water, be sure to use splices in wires that are sealed with stuff to keep the salt out.
Lots of good sites in the internet with simple to complex wiring schemes. But you won't go too wrong with what I've given you.
Also, tie wire bundles neatly and route them nicely. No birds nests like the one you have when you are done. 5% more time to make it look nice is a good investment.
This is an attempt at posting a link to a photo.
This photo shows the back side. The round electrical connector is just as it came from the package. It is directly over the whole for one of the mounting screws, which means that the screw or bolt in that position would be hot.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t148 ... G_1318.jpg
The second photo shows the front side. You can't see the little round electrical connector but it is directly behind the screw hole in the face plate (bottom right)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t148 ... G_1319.jpg
This photo shows the back side. The round electrical connector is just as it came from the package. It is directly over the whole for one of the mounting screws, which means that the screw or bolt in that position would be hot.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t148 ... G_1318.jpg
The second photo shows the front side. You can't see the little round electrical connector but it is directly behind the screw hole in the face plate (bottom right)
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t148 ... G_1319.jpg
I think what I will do is put in a positive bus as well as a negative bus and then run my fish finder and radio to it since they have their own on and off switches and then run a hot lead off of it over to the new bank of switches that will be used for lights and such. I will tie it directly to the main lead that connects to all of the switches but I won't be using the mounting plate screw to make the connection. I'll just connect the wire from the switches to the pos coming off of the pos bus. This is an older switch panel as it has the old style fuses and flip switches. The newer ones are lighted toggle switches. The old style only needs a positive connection. The newer ones, because each switch has its own light, need a negative connection as well.
Agree that you start over. Use ample gauge wire. Yes, you want a bus for both negative and positive sides. I like to use the Blue Seas panel which has the blade fuses for each circuit. One circuit per fuse!
I do like separate switch on each circuit--you may want to turn off memories--since there are some minimal current draw when the power is on to many instruments.
I do like separate switch on each circuit--you may want to turn off memories--since there are some minimal current draw when the power is on to many instruments.
Hoorenga;
I may have missed it, but don't forget the Battery Selector Switch(s) - to be located after the "Master (big)Buss Fuse(s) attached to the battery's (red wire) positive post.
If you have a second, 'House', battery there are many post and suggestions that address this 12VDC power management setup. This would imply one battery to be used as a dedicated "Start" battery for only starting the engine; and, the "House" battery to be used for all electrical and electronic systems/devices.
Good luck with this fall project. This is a great opportunity to learn about your CD's electrical systems and create a work of art.
Art
I may have missed it, but don't forget the Battery Selector Switch(s) - to be located after the "Master (big)Buss Fuse(s) attached to the battery's (red wire) positive post.
If you have a second, 'House', battery there are many post and suggestions that address this 12VDC power management setup. This would imply one battery to be used as a dedicated "Start" battery for only starting the engine; and, the "House" battery to be used for all electrical and electronic systems/devices.
Good luck with this fall project. This is a great opportunity to learn about your CD's electrical systems and create a work of art.
Art
Hoorenga;
As an afterthought, here is what was done on a CD16, Litl-Tug.
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php
Tivo had a very similiar situation with his wiring. It turned out very well, nice and professional.
Art
As an afterthought, here is what was done on a CD16, Litl-Tug.
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php
Tivo had a very similiar situation with his wiring. It turned out very well, nice and professional.
Art
Electrical isn't one of my better skills. How about if I just put a thirty amp fuse where the main power comes off of the battery? I am impressed with what others have done with 16 feet but this isn't going to be my home. I just want some lights, radio and a fish finder. I only have one battery and am not sure why I would need a battery switch. I think I have the forward wiring worked out with the negative and positive bus and the switch panel. I even moved the boat into my garage where I could stay warm and dry. It just fit with only an inch to spare.
hoorenga":3hqj3nnk said:Electrical isn't one of my better skills. How about if I just put a thirty amp fuse where the main power comes off of the battery? I am impressed with what others have done with 16 feet but this isn't going to be my home. I just want some lights, radio and a fish finder. I only have one battery and am not sure why I would need a battery switch. I think I have the forward wiring worked out with the negative and positive bus and the switch panel. I even moved the boat into my garage where I could stay warm and dry. It just fit with only an inch to spare.
A 30A fuse would probably be sufficient for all your needs. However, the choice of fuse size should be driven by the carrying capacity of the wiring it's protecting. E.g. if the wiring beyond the fuse can't support 30A, then 30A is too large a fuse. The reason for having a battery switch is that it allows you to disconnect the battery and assure that current isn't being drawn if the boat is left unused for awhile. E.g. suppose you accidentally leave the running lights on. If you have the habit is shutting off the switch to the battery, that doesn't really matter. Also, other low current draws like the memory for a stereo or slight leakage due to unforeseen/unintended path to ground etc. can (over long periods of time) drain a battery and a switch is handy for that. However, if you do put in a switch, make sure the bilge pump(s) is(are) directly connected to the battery so that at least the bilge pumps will operate if you shut off the battery. This is especially important if you moor.
In practice, I rarely use my battery switches. I have a house and a start battery and a battery charger on board. I'm almost always either connected to shore power (at a marina or on the trailer at my house), or fishing on the troll and I keep the batteries fully charged as a result. The only time I have used the battery switches since I've had the boat is when I've taken the boat in for service and it will be left unattended for awhile. Then I turn off the switches and it's useful since there is a small current draw for the fan on my airhead toilet and the memory on the stereo. So on a smaller, simpler boat such as yours, I think you could do without the switch.
Thanks for all the great information. I think I have a clear picture of what I need to do now. The battery switch certainly seems like a good idea. The boat is starting to come together. I found some paint for the traction areas on the deck and cabin floor that actually matches the original and is compatible with the existing surfaces. I also moved the boat into my garage so I could continue working in the nasty weather we have been experiencing. There was about an inch to spare once the door was closed. I'm having fun working on it but there is always more that can be done and I have to draw the line somewhere as I plan on selling here eventually. Every dollar I spend comes off the other end and at this point I'll be lucky if I break even. If I didn't enjoy the work I'd be wasting my time. I do hope to get some use out of it as well this coming spring. I'm not a foul weather boater, at least not in this boat.