Shower Drain Problem - 2007 Venture 26

J

jep27

New member
I am trying to sort out the proper fix for our shower - 2007 Cape Cruiser 26.

I have read a number of posts in the forum -- and decided I really need to inspect the sump pump and either replace or bypass.

Problem is > how do I gain access to it?

In the port cabinet, I have a Jabsco PumpGard Model 46200-000 and ParMax3 Model 31610-0092. (picture added to our album)

From my readings on the forums (thanks, all).. it sounds like there is another sump pump.. perhaps located under the shower floor?? and that triggers the ParMax3 into action when a float is high enough? It worked (a bit) in the fall.. but nothing now and we've had 2" of water on the shower floor.

Do I need to access by pulling the toilet? Or..??

Thoughts / Direction?

Thanks-- Jeff
 
Jeff,
I have the same boat and it is the same year as yours. My set up is the same as in your photo, with a filter and then the pump, in the port side locker.
There is nothing else in the system in my boat. It appears that the drain cover in the deck of the head was installed with 3M5200, after a proper drain catch was installed below the fiberglass liner.
Assuming that you have a working pump and that the strainer before the pump is clean, you can always remove the strainer from the hose and use something like mechanical fingers, reaching toward the shower drain, to clean out any object, like hair.
I PM'ed you and you are welcome to call me, as I had this issue when I purchased the boat 3 years ago.
 
I had the problem of the shower drain not working; to be exact it would not pump overboard and filled the cockpit floor with soapy water. Judy was really mad, but we cleaned it up and left it alone till we got home. All I can say is it worked at home.

So what happened? Well the shower drains into a
Johnson Multiple Port Shower Sump System, which has a sump pump inside. It didn't pump when the float switch lifted; ran but didn't pump. So I replace the original ant-backdrain with a Forespar Vented Loop. Worked fine; did the same for both of the other sump pumps. Actually, the pump mfg. says that a vented loop is mandatory; don't know why everything worked without them before and then stopped. Fixed the problem though.

Now that's for a C-Dory 25 and you'd have to check your Venture.
 
I would put a second filter before the fine screened filter it that is plugging up.

However first you need to find out if the Par Pump is working. I often put a on off switch as well as the float swiich on the sump pump.

It is very possible that the pump is running but the impeller or valves are bad.
 
If your boat is like mine, and it probably is, you have a single pole switch that runs the pump. No float switch. If the motor doesn't run you either have a blown fuse, bad switch, open wiring or a bad motor. If the motor runs and doesn't pump water there is a screen in front of the pump, that if clogged up, the pump won't prime. If the screen is clean and you still can't get the pump to pump, you either have a clogged impeller or a hole/loose clamp/loose screen cover that allows air into the suction line. Hope this helps,
Forrest
 
Shower_Pump_Jun2021.jpg

I'm a bit confused. This pump in the above photo looks like a potable water pump and strainer to me. I would assume that the 26, like the 25, uses a standard bilge pump to empty the shower water drain overboard. Am I missing something? On my 25, there is a shower sump box underneath the floor in my port closet, accessible by lifting an access panel. Inside that sump box is a large strainer, a bilge pump and a float switch. In my case, I was getting some leakage out of the sump box as there was no sealant around the lid, or where the pump and float wires went into the box. I corrected that by putting sealant in the wiring hole and around the lid.

If I am correct that the pump and a few of the comments above, are in regards to the potable water system, and not the drain, then I think your issue regards the sump drain and pump, and not the pump in the photo. That being the case, if water is backing up in your shower, then it sounds like you either have blockage in the drain line, or the shower sumps bilge pump is not working due to either it's own problem, or the float switch. Could just be a blown fuse for that pump as well.

More direct to your question:
Do I need to access by pulling the toilet? Or..??
Click to expand...
, as I stated, my shower sump box is under the floor of my port closet, and accessible through an access panel in that floor. If your boat does in fact have a system like mine, and it is under the shower floor, it's possible there is an access panel under the toilet, but that would be a PITA if so. Is there a floor in your port closet that is removable? I'd check there first. Colby
 
Colby,
The 26 set up does not have a sump with a bilge pump like the 25. The 25 has a step in the doorway entrance, that has all of that stuff in it. The 26 does not have that step/storage area. The 26 has a shower drain, more like at your home, that has a hose that goes to the strainer and then to the pump and then overboard, through a thru hull fitting on the port side. There is a simple switch in the head, located in the plastic built in compartment, that contains the shower valves and shower nozzle.
 
Thanks All -- great input and it sounds like maybe a couple different systems being referenced.

To confirm our set-up, here's some more information

* On/Off Switch: We have one of these (picture added to album). Located in the shower controls.

* Looped End Exit through Hull: I believe this is how ours is - (picture added to album)

* Do we have a sump pump or not?: Still not clear to me. It was suggested that there is a Johnson SumpPump upstream from the filter and pump shown.. if so, I assume it must be under the shower floor and assume that is where there is an issue with the float not working/triggering water evacuation.

-- If we don't have one, does that imply that the float is located in the lower portion of the ParMax3 unit? If so, that's a fair bit higher on the slope of the floor on our port cabinet and may explain why water level/pressure is not triggering?

Q > How would I disable the float.. so that this pump would just work on/off against the switch in our shower controls?

* I don't think I commented before.. but our shower floor is also leaking into the space beneath the cabin/salon floor when left there. I can sponge u through a deck plate.. but still, not good. Maybe I need to re-set/re-seal the drain fitting with 5200 .. to be sure it's not leaking there.. and therefore allow pressure not to build to hit the float?

* How important is it to remove the looped exit and replace with the vented type?

Thanks for any further thoughts!

Best- Jeff
 
The 26 set up does not have a sump with a bilge pump like the 25. The 25 has a step in the doorway entrance, that has all of that stuff in it. The 26 does not have that step/storage area. The 26 has a shower drain, more like at your home, that has a hose that goes to the strainer and then to the pump and then overboard, through a thru hull fitting on the port side. There is a simple switch in the head, located in the plastic built in compartment, that contains the shower valves and shower nozzle.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Actually, the sump box on my 25 is in the port closet. The drain hoses run under that step though. Back to that earlier photo, it still looks like a potable water pump. If so, I imagine it would run the whole time it is switched on, unless there is some kind of float switch involved. That pump, and the strainer in the hose next to it, looks exactly like my potable water pump and strainer, in my cockpit bilge for the potable water tank. I also have a pump and strainer like that under my step, but that is for the cockpit water washdown system.

Additional edit. Wow, Well I learned something new again! I blew up the photo of the pump (zoomed in) and see it actually says shower drain pump right on it. I wonder why they go to this rather than the usual bilge pump? Looking at your photo now of the pump and drain hose, sure looks to me like there is nothing else involved. If you have standing water in your shower, I'd think it's either a clogged strainer (filter) or inop pump. That strainer just has a small screen in it that would be plugged pretty easy by hair or shower crud. You should be able to open it up (it looks just like my potable water and washdown water strainers), pull the screen out and clean it. If it's the pump, then either a fuse or burned out pump. And I'm betting that pump costs more than the standard bilge pump. Colby

ShowerDrain_hull_exit.jpg
 
With what you describe I would be most surprised if you have a sump or sump pump or float valve. I have had several boats rigged the way you are. You just turn on the pump when you shower. It sucks the water out thru the drain.

You need to determine if power to the pump. Does pump run? Then check the wire mesh filter, (which should be checked upon each voyage, and every few weeks when in use.

The leak to the bilge is probably due to a leak around the shower drain. That may be difficult to access. It is even possible that another inspection plate may have to be added to access this area. Those who have the same boat/set up will know if there is access. Most likely the caulking around the drain has failed, or was not adequate to begin with. If so the drain fitting should be removed, the fiberglass cleaned, as well as the SS fitting, and then re-installed with good caulking. This will require removing the hose from the fitting and backing off the nut which holds the drain tight under the floor.
 
Update >

Fuse blown -- and confirmed that the pump is shorting out.

While I know some of you more experienced guys re-build, I think I'll just get a replacement.

* Any recommendations on replacement shower pump?

Also-- I had a very tough time getting the tubing off this pump.. and wondering if there is any sort of trick?

Are these drain tubes sealed with heat or something? -- also wondering if that sort of joining is recommended as I replace?

thanks-- Jeff
 
Jeff,
Glad that you sorted it out. I use a heat gun or hair dryer, when removing old hose. Of course, you can’t do that for fuel systems, as the heat gun, or hair dryer, as are not explosion proof.
 
Jeff,
Glad that you sorted it out. I use a heat gun or hair dryer, when removing old hose. Of course, you can’t do that for fuel systems, as the heat gun, or hair dryer, as are not explosion proof.
 
As srbaum, I often use a heat gun--but just as frequently, especially when putting tubing on, I use hot water.

The factory most likely put some sort of sealant--Bostec was often preferred for some reason. If I have a problem, I use Permatex Form-a gasket #2, (soft non hardening). It will give adherence with hoses which have small leaks at the joint, yet be easy to remove.

I recently had a shower sump which had cracks in the case. I thought I got an exact replacement, but it was slightly different, which required some hose modification.

If possible remove the old sump, and get the numbers off of it--so you have an exact replacement. There probably will be overflow from the water heater hose attached to the shower sump also.

In my sump, I have the float level switch wired so it works, but also a direct positive to the pump bypassing the float switch which I can use if either the float switch fails, or I want to get as much water out of the sump as possible.

Be sure and clean the strainer. I don't know what type of pump you have (centrifugal, or displacement), but it is rare for them to seize. At times if the vanes become stuck, you can free that up, and the pump motor is still good.
 
Hi Bob,
If you look at his photos, I don't think he has a sump. It's looks to me like the shower drain goes straight to the shower drain pump, first thru a strainer, and then overboard. Does bring up the question then where does the hot water heater drain? After this thread, I'm wondering if later on I might just replace the shower sump with the shower drain pump. I don't have the large water heater anymore draining into the shower sump, so might be a better option to just remove the sump and replace with the single specialized pump. Easy enough to add a switch to the shower control box. And one less thing to leak down in the closet. I was searching the internet for information, and it seems like the sump vs. drain pump mostly deal with preventing the smell associated with a shower sump, that always has some soapy scummy water in it. My other option is to maybe just dump a little pinesol in the drain after showering, to help keep the sump fairly clean. Colby
 
Colby,
The 26 does not have a conventional shower sump, like on the 25. The shower pan has a shower drain and below that is a container, or more like a funnel, that channels the water through a hose, to the strainer, the pump and then overboard on the port side.
The water heater is below the sink on the starboard side, just aft of the helm seat and the relief is plumbed overboard in that general location.
 
srbaum,

What you're stating, as I understand it,is the 26 shower pump has a funnel leading to the pump which then pumps the water overboard. So, here is a question.

What turns the pump on when one is taking a shower? The box on a 25 has a float switch and the shower water floats the switch and the pump turns on. Does one turn on a switch when you're taking a shower? Does the pump have a built in switch? Or something else?

Just curious, not arguing.

Boris
 
Totally different set up than the 25 then. Ours is like Boris'; sump with bilge pump on a float switch, located under the closet base on the port side.
 
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