Shore Power Inlet Plug Fire Hazard: Marinco vs. SmartPlug
- Thread starter Sea Wolf
- Start date
Don't forget that if you go "boater homing" and stay in RV parks you will need RV adapters.
Since I don't have much draw but LED lights, the fridge and the battery charger, I converted to a normal 15 amp plug and have a 50 foot medium duty (14 gage) extension cord and then a bunch of adapters for various power outlets = marine "round" and RV types go on the far "power pedestal end of the cord. One of my best choices was to get a extension cord with a "power-present" lite that shows when you have power, as it seems half the power pedestals have been turned off, don't work or have some problem. Several times I've needed the full 50 feet and one time went without power when the only working power pedestal was about 75 feet away.
Chuck
Since I don't have much draw but LED lights, the fridge and the battery charger, I converted to a normal 15 amp plug and have a 50 foot medium duty (14 gage) extension cord and then a bunch of adapters for various power outlets = marine "round" and RV types go on the far "power pedestal end of the cord. One of my best choices was to get a extension cord with a "power-present" lite that shows when you have power, as it seems half the power pedestals have been turned off, don't work or have some problem. Several times I've needed the full 50 feet and one time went without power when the only working power pedestal was about 75 feet away.
Chuck
colbysmith
Active member
I have various "adapters" I've purchased or made, so no problem there. Even kept an old GFCI adapter from when I use to have a motorhome and did a lot of staying in campgrounds. The Smart Plug does appear to be an improvement on the old Marinco style setup. But really, how many of us need 30 amp service on our 22' C-dory's? I think in the long run, it probably would have been cheaper for me to have changed out the main breaker in my shore power system, and just gone down to 15 or 20 amps. Unless one is going to run several high amperage drawing items at the same time, 15 amps really is enough. I guess the main reason I stayed with the 30 amp system that was already on the boat, was due to most marinas having that as a minimum. It's rare to even find a standard 15 amp outlet anymore in the marinas. In fact, I may still return it all (or sale it for cheap here) and convert to 15 amp service. This is probably one purchase I should have sat on a little longer.... :-(
My thinking would be not to downgrade any of the standard boat systems if you ever intend to sell your boat. I'm thinking if I was looking at two similar boats and one had the standard 30 amp setup and the other had a non marine 15 amp shore power setup I would wonder where other corners might have been cut that might not be visible. The other issue is if you ever had an electrical fire (God forbid)what would the insurance company have to say about non marine type electrical devices. It's only money. That's just me. JMHO.
D.D.
D.D.
colbysmith
Active member
Yeah, I know...that was the thought that had me replacing the Marinco with the Smart Plug in the first place. But still a PITA to deal with considering the only thing I use electricity for is the battery charger, and on occasion a small portable electric heater. Items that easily fall under 15 amps, even when both used at the same time!
Will-C":2vw3ohla said:
I hear you, and yet I think for me the smaller "system" (using the smaller marine connector as others have done) would make more sense, be lighter, and more compact. I would look around the (theoretical) boat and if everything else was done properly, presume (or ask) that the current owner had done the small system for the same reasons. If other things were done in a slipshod manner, then I would pass on the boat anyway.
Actually my boat had no shore power when I found it, and to me that was a plus because I planned either no system (what I have now) or 15 amp trolling motor inlet type system as has been described here. That's what happens to fit my use. If I go to sell my boat I'll explain why and how I have done things to any potential buyer. My guess is that if the overall boat shows quality work, and I have it documented and priced reasonably, it will sell.
Just another theoretical buyer point of view.
This is not my cross to bear. I'm just looking at a forum and posting my thoughts. I'm thinking the Marina's I go to only have the standard 30 amp or 50 amp plug receptacles available at the power pedestals. Maybe a perspective buyer won't notice. But, no matter it's not my boat so what ever floats your boat is fine with me. I did mine myself it did not seem to be all that big of a deal. Our boat came equipped with a 30 amp plug so I figure they must know something. We carry a adapter for 20 amp which what we normally use in an RV park but still coupled to our standard 30 amp cord.
D.D.
D.D.
Will-C":1gxmx46k said:
Understood. That's what the forum is for.
Will-C":1gxmx46k said:
Well any prospective buyer of my boat won't need to "not notice," as I will be explaining all of the systems and why I have chosen specific types. There will be no attempt (nor need) to conceal anything, or hope something goes "unnoticed."
Will-C":1gxmx46k said:
I agree. I have a similar system in my RV (that I upgraded/installed) and it is not difficult to do. The reason I'm not choosing that for my C-Dory is that it is a small, light boat, and I don't use shorepower in that way. The cordset and etc. for the large system are weight and bulk I do not want or need. It's not because of it being difficult or expensive.
Maybe I am misreading, but it seems that you are casting it in a "quality vs. slipshod" light, with overtones of "but maybe a buyer won't notice." To me, on my boat, those are not the reasons for the various choices. It's more about weight/bulk/usage. Anyone who buys my boat (at such time as I decide to sell it) will have all the facts and will either be happy with the boat and buy it, or not and buy something else. Someone who wants a full/heavy/bulky shorepower system would either want to buy another boat, or add that system to my boat (as you said, not difficult). Someone who is more like me and is not a regular/heavy/at all shorepower user, would probably be happy with my boat as is (no shorepower at all - can't be dangerous
), or a smaller system (what I will likely install if I decide to add anything at all). So far I haven't even noticed that my boat doesn't have shorepower (that's because I don't use it), so I may not add anything at all. Lightest option We all use our boats in different ways, so different systems (or no system at all) may be appropriate. As long as things are done well, I think there can be a number of good options for various boats/boater styles.
Sunbeam
My bias is to do things for my usage (doing whatever I do properly and neatly), and to figure that there will likely be a buyer/buyers who feel the same way. Thus I don't tend to orient my boat/systems for "re-sale." I do a proper job for myself though, so it's not about that, but more about choices. Others may choose to plan more directly for re-sale, possibly with a specific theoretical buyer in mind.
I'm not sure I'm getting the heavy part of a shore power system. A breaker panel a couple GFI outlets a battery charger and a shore power inlet socket. :| I mean how much could that weigh? In looking at Defender's catalog I don't notice any 20 amp cords just some 20 amp adapters. I'm not making the call that anything is slip shod. I'm just stating 30 amp seems to be a standard in the marine Industry. If someone wants to install a two amp setup have at it. So no matter how you use your boat if you are going to install a shore power setup my opinion won't change. I say the 30 amp plug is the standard in the industry.
D.D.
D.D.
I have used "extension cords" in several small boats I have owned. There are some potential safety issues, and if the cord has a GFCI, then it is far safer. The current boat came with an extension cord and two cheap automotive trickle chargers. I pulled that out, and put in a very simple 15 amp system. There are two plugs (The entire circuit is GFCII protected)--one outboard and aft of the helm seat, and one at the foreword edge of the aft dinette seat. Three conductor vinyl sheathed Marine grade tinned wiring was used. I choose a 15 amp fuse/on/off switch designed for a heavy duty outdoor motor, rather than the fancy marine panel. I hard wired a MasterVolt 3 bank battery charger to this switch. The input is a Marinco 15 amp connection, which is in the outboard aft bulkhead under the gunnel. I use a 12 gauge wire heavy duty extension cord--a bit overkill.
If you want to run an extension cord for occasional use with a small heater, appliance or drill, then that works. But use a heavy cord and GFCI You can thread the cord thru the aft bulkhead by the galley, where the controls run. But I would prefer to have a proper inlet, some fuse or breaker protection, assurance that the cord would not be in the water, and a on/ off switch. if the cord is left on the boat for length of any time. Many outdoor extension cords are undersized for a full 15 amp circuit if you choose to use that and run a 50 foot cord.
If you want to run an extension cord for occasional use with a small heater, appliance or drill, then that works. But use a heavy cord and GFCI You can thread the cord thru the aft bulkhead by the galley, where the controls run. But I would prefer to have a proper inlet, some fuse or breaker protection, assurance that the cord would not be in the water, and a on/ off switch. if the cord is left on the boat for length of any time. Many outdoor extension cords are undersized for a full 15 amp circuit if you choose to use that and run a 50 foot cord.
colbysmith
Active member
The "heavy" part is in the weight and size of the cords and connectors. In the end, and mostly for the reasons Will C discussed, I ended up installing the new Smart Plug system I bought. 30 amps is more than I will ever need, but since the system was already installed, which included some outlets, and I made the purchase of the new stuff, I went with it. That being said, if I did not have shore power already installed, and wanted to be able to power a battery charger and maybe one outlet, I would just go with the 15 amp service thru the hull connector. Unless one plans to use air conditioning, microwave, coffee pots, etc., 30 amp really is overkill on a CD-22. Colby
I think typically breakers and electrical ratings are based on 75% of the expected amp draw. The way I envision it on a boat the 30 amps is like a 200 amp service coming into a house which is covered by the main breaker, then the individual items get covered by the smaller individual breakers with the smaller amp rating and wire size for each device. If you don't need shore power than you don't need shore power. My thoughts are to present the best advice in my opinion. For us which might be a different situation than most our boat is always plugged into shore power unless we are on the water or anchored. Since the examples show pictures of electrical fires caused in the area of the power inlet receptacle on boats the added insurance of a thermal breaker which opens the circuit I think is if nothing else a good reason to install a Smart Plug no matter what your amperage draw might be.
D.D.
D.D.
colbysmith
Active member
The part about the thermal breaker has me wondering. I have looked at my new smart plug, male and female connectors, and read thru all the packaging and papers that came with it. I do not see any thermal breaker molded in or otherwise part of my Smart Plug system I have, not in the connector set, nor in the cord. It does speak of less heat generated because of more contact space. I'm wondering if you have a higher end plug that comes with thermal protection. Just as the female end that came with the connector set I purchased, did not have a light indicating power available, however the power cord I also purchased, did have the indicator light. To be quite honest, other than the contact space, I didn't see any difference in my original Marinco or this new Smart Plug. Well, except the boat recepticle is heavier with the Stainless Steel cap and base plate, as opposed to the all plastic of the Marinco. In fact, all the connectors from the old system were in very good shape with no indication of shorting or corrosion. Which reminds me, I now have a 50 foot Marinco 30 A cord for sale, $40, and a Marinco 30a Recepticle (boat mount) for $10. Any takers? Colby P.s. Buyer pays shipping.
Several comments: I agree with Dave 100% if the boat is going to be left plugged in. The thermal breaker is definitely an excellent addition. Also if there is going to be any current draw on peripheral sockets, a separate breaker for each circuit is necessary. (Often the peripheral circuits add up to more than the total input to the boat. For example C Dory factory wiring has a 30 amp main breaker, 15 amps on the several 15 amp plug in sockets, 15 amps for the water heater, 5 amp for the refrigerator, 5 amps for the battery charger (and in the case of the Tom Cat, I put in a separate 15 amp circuit for the microwave)
There is an interesting article, on the Smart plug site from a person who writes the ABYC standards:
http://www.smartplug.com/press_releases ... torial.pdf
He points out that one other main issue is with the shore power pedestal connectors--no thermal protection, and often are burned, with increased resistance etc:…
One other clarification: Dave talks of 20 amp connectors.
Below 20 amp plug:
Although I carry a 20 amp to 15 amp adaptor, it is rare to see a pure 20 amp plug--and I suspect that many of the combination plugs (on the right)
are only wired for 15 amps.
Although it is uncommon to see appliances or extension cords with 20 amp configuration--they do exist.
There are other 20 amp marina plugs, and we carry adaptors for those:
This looks identical to a 30 amp plug, but is of a smaller radius, and the 30 amp plug can be forced into the 20 amp socket by bending the prongs inward--a very bad idea.. or the 20 amp plug into a 30 amp socket an even worse idea.
For the boat in RV parks we carry this inexpensive and simple 30 amp to 15 amp adaptor:
Important bottom line is to be safe!
There is an interesting article, on the Smart plug site from a person who writes the ABYC standards:
http://www.smartplug.com/press_releases ... torial.pdf
He points out that one other main issue is with the shore power pedestal connectors--no thermal protection, and often are burned, with increased resistance etc:…
If the smart plug is accepted by NEMA, and the code is changed to allow Smart plugs in the marina pedestals, then many smaller marinas may be caught having to rewire the marinas, with smart plugs (high cost, will meet resistance from Marina Owners--and boaters will still have to have the Hubbel type to Smart plug adaptors…
One other clarification: Dave talks of 20 amp connectors.
Below 20 amp plug:
Although I carry a 20 amp to 15 amp adaptor, it is rare to see a pure 20 amp plug--and I suspect that many of the combination plugs (on the right)
are only wired for 15 amps.
Although it is uncommon to see appliances or extension cords with 20 amp configuration--they do exist.
There are other 20 amp marina plugs, and we carry adaptors for those:
This looks identical to a 30 amp plug, but is of a smaller radius, and the 30 amp plug can be forced into the 20 amp socket by bending the prongs inward--a very bad idea.. or the 20 amp plug into a 30 amp socket an even worse idea.
For the boat in RV parks we carry this inexpensive and simple 30 amp to 15 amp adaptor:
Important bottom line is to be safe!
colbysmith
Active member
I just sent a msg to Smart Plug asking them about that Thermal Overload Protection. I also see it stated on one of their web page diagrams, but again did not see any apparent device when I installed the recepticle, nor is there any mention of it on the packaging materials. Bob, I do have the original factory installed shore power. It includes the main 30 amp double breaker (which allows both the neutral and the positive wires to be shut off) and three additional smaller breakers. One for my Battery Charger, one for the two outlets (1 under the dinette seat and one by the stove), and a unused spare. For my use, if I had not already had the 30 amp shore power service, 15 amps would have more than sufficed. Colby P.s. BTW Bob, yeah I have all kind of adapters also. Some I made, some I bought. Think I'm pretty well covered in that department! 
The only available power near our boat at the Victoria BC gathering this summer was 20amp with the smaller twist connector. We do not carry that converter currently and just went without power for two nights. Didn't really matter to us then but I will find myself one before the spring.
Greg
Greg
colbysmith
Active member
That's one adapter I do not have either. I wonder if that is a Canadian thing. I've never seen that style plug anywhere else before.
Colby-
From my observations, the 20-amp twist-lock connectors are most commonly used around here (Northern California) by contractors on job sites.
I think they like the "stay connected"/no pull-apart, feature.
The prevalence of the use of one type or another probably varies by region, type of domestic, commercial, or industrial use, and by state regulations.
My guess, anyway!
I bought one of those large plastic milk carton containers full of different adapters from a retiring RV'er about 10 years ago.
Great buy, but I've never used, or even seen, some of the types of plugs in the container on a wall or pedestal anywhere.
But, following the motto, "Be Prepared" I'm still waiting! :lol:
Joe. :teeth :thup
From my observations, the 20-amp twist-lock connectors are most commonly used around here (Northern California) by contractors on job sites.
I think they like the "stay connected"/no pull-apart, feature.
The prevalence of the use of one type or another probably varies by region, type of domestic, commercial, or industrial use, and by state regulations.
My guess, anyway!
I bought one of those large plastic milk carton containers full of different adapters from a retiring RV'er about 10 years ago.
Great buy, but I've never used, or even seen, some of the types of plugs in the container on a wall or pedestal anywhere.
But, following the motto, "Be Prepared" I'm still waiting! :lol:
Joe. :teeth :thup