Sewage operations aboard my Tomcat

J

John S

New member
Hello,

Was wondering if someone familiar with my TC24 Tomcat's built in sewage system could explain it to me. I'm sure it's the same as any C-Dory with a built in holding tank. The C-Dory manual didn't give me much on the principle of how it woks.

Mainly what I speak of is what is happening inside that tank.

Does the pump out tube go to some kind of standpipe that sucks from the bottom of the tank? (The first time I went to a pump station I expected some tube that would stick down into my tank, not a vacuum cleaner.)

When I vacuum out the tank where is the vent that is letting air back into the tank located?

What happens if I overfill the sewage holding tank?

I appreciate the insight. We haven't put sewage into the tank, we have filled it up with water a couple times and pumped it out once and siphoned it out once, (the stench was incredible) previous owner said he didn't use the tank, but someone has.

The stench I smelled when we siphoned the water out of the tank was reminiscent of a smell we get in the cabin occasionally. I read in SEA magazine that the white hose permeates sewer smells and should be replaced with the black hose. Anyone have any experience there???

Thanks,
John
 
I am not the guy to answer your questions - we deleted the marine head on our CD25 and went with the Airhead Composting Marine Toilet - and all the snide remarks aside, this is still a decision we do not regret in the slightest .
 
OK, I'm hiding out whilest Judy gets the house ready for the kids and Christmas. That's why I have time to explain how Journey On's holding tank is plumbed (CD25.)

At the side of the hoding tank (~15 gal?) near (but not at) the bottom. there is an outlet port. In the CD 25 this is plumbed to a tee, one outlet of which goes to a macerator/pump and then overboard, through a shutoff valve. The other outlet goes to a fitting on the aft coaming marked "Waste". This line doe not have a valve. I can't find a vent on the holding tank, and suppose the air comes in through the toilet.

To empty the tank, one can go to a pumpout station, remove the deck plate, stick the end of the hose in (with a rubber fitting on the hose end,) turn on the dockside pump and pump the sh-- out. This is the legal way, however most of the pumpout stations I've seen either don't work, or the !@#$ rubber fitting is long gone.

If you use the macerator pump: don't do it at the dock, and remember to open the valve. The macerator switch is on the dash. This is the non-PC way (unless you're 3 mi. offshore.)

the southern Boris
 
journey on":3ctgow9r said:
If you use the macerator pump: don't do it at the dock, and remember to open the valve. The macerator switch is on the dash. This is the non-PC way (unless you're 3 mi. offshore.)

the southern Boris
Click to expand...

Just pretend you're a 300 lb. Harbor seal or, better, a full grown Orca. Think 2,500 gallon "holding tanks" (two) on my sub. Macerator? We don't need no damn macerator. Esoecially when we emptied them in front of an on coming Carrier....

Don
 
I dont have a holding tank butwill with the new camper we are gettting. I have noticed something here in washington that I did not notice in californa. All the rest stops have working free pump outs. In california you only see them in the camp grounds in the mountians or they dont work. So if you are here from out of state and cant find a pump out on the water you can always hit one after you put it on the trailer. They is a good one that always works at the ramp in everret on the water. Its on the out side dock on the south side of the ramp. you can getto it from both sides but dont be there in the summer when the foot ferry for hat island shows up.
 
Reading your post i am suprised that you do not have a vent line. I would think the tank would not pump out unless there is a vent. Look again- if the vent is missing that could be the source of your odor.

Changeing the hoses could also help. You can check the hose by wiping it with a warm wet wash cloth. If you get an odor from the rag after the wipe down change the hose.

We have owned several boats and years ago a surveror told us not to put any paper in the head. The TP is what caused problems with pump outs and sticks to the inside of the tank and reduces capacity.

Good luck with your new toy and Merry Christmas.
 
Here's a couple thoughts on the black holding tanks regarding smell and TP: generally, it's not just the waste that is causing the smell, it can also be the raw water pumped in - especially in the salt water, there are critters that come in with the water. They die (and stink) in the hose. A fresh water rinse at the end will help. Also, not sure why so many boaters do not use holding tank chemical treatment... it is not expensive and really helps eliminate odors. You can pick this up in the RV section in Wal-Mart. Our holding tanks are relatively small in our boats compared to RVs, so it doesn't take a lot to control the odor and help break down solids. Also, I'm not familiar with the hose routing in the TC24, but in any holding tank, if there isn't a loup in the hose, odors will come through that. In hoses that have a loup, if the liquid in the hose evaporates, the smell will come back up the hose. If not being used frequently, it helps to put water down there occasionally or put some of the pink RV antifreeze that won't evaporate as quick as water.

And regarding the TP; some heads just can't handle anything that doesn't break down quickly... and clumps of toilet paper (especially the softer, thicker "good stuff") can get like concrete before it breaks down. Use as little paper as necessary (this may need to be explained to "non-regulars" using the head), and if you need more paper, flush more. The rapidly disintegrating RV toilet paper is best (also available at WM; a bit more $$ than regular TP and well worth it). You can test your toilet paper by putting a few sheets (of fresh TP) in a glass of water, swish it around, and let it set for the night... if it is a clump in the morning, that's how it will be in your holding tank (especially without the breakdown chemical). When using a pumpout station or pumping overboard, more dilution is a good thing... when the holding tank is about 2/3 full, run water into it to bring it to full; don't dump a partial tank, because there may be toilet paper stuck to the side of the tank. When using the macerator pump, we make it a point to empty the tank, run fresh water into it, and pump it out again (keeps the hose from the macerator to the hull cleaner).

The above will help you keep the smelly head syndrome in check.

And one last thing regarding the use of these boats as land RVs: unless you tap/thread into the holding tank through hull, there is no sanitary way to dump into an RV sewage dump. And then you will have a small hose (more restriction) and you'll need to buy/make an adaptor for the campground sewer connection. I am not aware of any commercial RV park that will allow you to dump anything out on the ground, so the sink (and shower in the 25s and TCs) is also a problem. You may get by with this in some state parks, but you will have no friends amongst the RVers there. Dumping of grey (and especially black) water is a no-no, and is illegal in many states. If you do make a hose to use to dump, then you have the problem of cleaning/storing that hose. The sewer/water dumping on these boats is best handled on the water, IMHO. I'd be interested in how others who are using these boats on land are handling the gray/black water situation.

Hope I didn't get carried away with this crappy topic. :wink:

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
JamesTXSD":pw26g4pb said:
When using a pumpout station or pumping overboard, more dilution is a good thing... when the holding tank is about 2/3 full, run water into it to bring it to full
Click to expand...

Guys, thanks for all the great sewer conversation, some of it was a good review from the manual and some of it was new, but I still have a couple things I'm not sure of.

I really like the idea of the hose wipe down and smell trick to check the hoses, that is great and should be a fine indicator!

How would you know when the tank is 2/3 full? What indication do you get?

I must have a vent on my sewage tank, (unless the toilet is the vent as suggested above) because I've successfully pumped it out before. So where is this vent located or is it definitely the toilet?????

What happens or what indications will you get if the tank were full?

Thanks,
John
 
Well, I guess this a good place for me to post this cautionary tale of a CD head problem.
It started with a week or so of smelling urine around the cockpit area. As it was summer, I just assumed it was from the vent. (port side rear, highest thru-hull). Finally disgusted, I pulled back the cockpit carpet, opened the hatches, and to my horror, I found a bilge full of blue-green whiz-water. Gratefully, we don't use the head for #2 unless absolutely necessary.
After flushing the bilge out with bleach water, found that the inlet fitting had broken off of the holding tank.
I posted the following picture a while ago, and although over one hundred people viewed it, nobody asked what it was picture of.

P8070005.sized.jpg


As you can plainly see, the notch for the fitting was not cut deep enough, and the tank had been hanging on the fitting for two years before it snapped off.

The next big problem was how to fix it. The tank is built in, so there's no getting it out to re-weld it .

A little web-surfing turned up a glue called Locktite 3030. It's a 2-part polyolefin bonder designed for plastics like the holding tank.

After cutting the notch deeper, I cleaned and glued the fitting back on with a $30. bead of 3030. It worked like a charm.

The moral of the story: Check the cut-out on your boats, and make sure your tanks aren't hanging on the fittings.
 
James I did not know that the trailer dumps were not pump outs. just gravity feed? I have only used marine pump outs and I thought the ones at the rest stops were the same. The camper we are getting is the first I have had with a holding tank. About the chemical for the tanks . We always use that in the porty potty on susan E. Works great and keeps the smell down. really breaks down the paper too. I can't beleive a 25 with holding tank would not use this.
 
starcrafttom":1uczuwtl said:
James I did not know that the trailer dumps were not pump outs. just gravity feed?
Click to expand...

Yep, gravity fed....at least the one at Smokey Point rest area is. That is where we dump our porta potty.
 
All RV dump stations are the same-gravity fed. Your holding tank has to have the drain in the bottom of the tank or it is not going to empty completely.
 
I have never seen a marine holding tank which didn't have a vent. The bigger the better. Most C Dory's are 5/8" tubing--and look like the vent on the fuel tank and water tank above the gunnel.

Most marine heads take discharge out of the bottom, but there is often a residual, so you have to keep flushing the tank out.

A holding tank is not a septic system--you can use deoderants to mask oders, but enzymes will help to control the odor slightly better--but still does not get rid of waste.

Peggy Hall Marine Sanitation (Google) for a lot of answeres.

There is also an excellent section in West Marine's on line literature:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... ngtank.htm
and at Sea Grant articles such as:
http://seagrant.uaf.edu/bookstore/boatkeeper/heads.pdf

We use RARITAN KO (Kills Odors)l, and CP (Potty clean) for chemicals and cleaning.

We do not put toilet paper into the head or tank (keep a bag for that and discard separately). TP often does not break down--if you do use TP, in the head, get the cheapest you can buy!!


All of the campground and rest stops are gravity feed and should not be utalized by a boat. The best way of handling "potty" waste if you are camping is to bring a portipotty along (not a problem for the 22's). Dump the protipotty at the waste dump station and leave it in the truck when on the water!. You could make a fitting, but the risk of leakage is too great to have it pumped on the land from a macerator.

Unfortuantely on the TC 255, the macerator discharge is above the gunnel. This could allow sewage to blow back into the cockpit and is a very poor design. Hopefully this has been changed, and the boats so fitted would be fixed to a discharge just above the water line, with no risk of blowing sewage. Any pumping of sewage via the macerator has to be at least 3 miles at sea.

We use different chemicals in the RV than in the boat.
 
I use a product called RV Trine in my RV holding tank. It is in a powder form in a foil package. It is and enzyme that will digest toilet paper and sewaqge and turn it into liquid for easy drain out. Use cheap 1 ply TP if you need to put TP in the toilet. Works for me.
 
teflonmom":llfz7w6h said:
Changeing the hoses could also help. You can check the hose by wiping it with a warm wet wash cloth. If you get an odor from the rag after the wipe down change the hose.
Click to expand...

Pat & Fred, good advice, I finally cleared enough of the snow off the tarp to get inside the boat. The wife and I wiped down the sewage hoses and carefully smelled it. Sure enough, no sewer smell. I'm glad to put the replacement project off for now.

John
 
Pat Anderson":l3e8tm4g said:
I am not the guy to answer your questions - we deleted the marine head on our CD25 and went with the Airhead Composting Marine Toilet - and all the snide remarks aside, this is still a decision we do not regret in the slightest .
Click to expand...

Pat, I have been giving more consideration to this option recently. Do you have a sense of how much less potable water would be used for toilet operations with an AirHead compared to a standard marine head?

Thanks,
Warren
 
The Airhead use no potable water at all, an I don't how much water the other types use, but however much they use, the Airhead uses that much less!
Lori Ann":2uz1iu2e said:
Pat, I have been giving more consideration to this option recently. Do you have a sense of how much less potable water would be used for toilet operations with an AirHead compared to a standard marine head?

Thanks,
Warren
Click to expand...
 
The "standard" marine head will use no potable water. They are plumbed to suck the necessary water from whatever water the boat is floating in. The downside to this, as mentioned earlier in this thread is that if that water is saltwater, there are a lot of little organisms that get sucked in as well. These organisms die and then tend to smell as bad or worse than the sewage after a couple of days.

The option available to boaters (not sure if available as an option from C-dory) is one of several brands of electric heads such as Vacu-Flush. These are more complicated systems, require some power to operate, and are plumbed into the fresh water supply. Different brands use differents amount of water to operate. The Vacu-Flush typically uses just a couple of pints per flush. They rely on the Vacuum created to do a lot of the work. Others I've seen are more like home systems and rely mostly on a larger volume of water and gravity to do the work.
 
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