Seeking Cockpit Canvas Advice

B

brevity

New member
We've decided to take the plunge and have a camperback made for our new-to-us 25 cruiser "Brevity." I ask your advice on a few specifics:

* We're working with Churchill Brothers canvas in Everett WA. I visited their shop and talked to the folks there, and they seem great so far. Does anyone have experience with them?

* Churchill Brothers suggested 7/8" stainless steel for the frame. I had assumed we would use 1 inch, since that's what we had on our previous (sail)boat. They assure me that 7/8 will be plenty strong and sturdy. Can anyone comment on the suitability of 7/8 vs. 1 inch?

We're going with a free-standing design so that the sides and back can be zipped off in warm weather, with track along the cabin roof and snaps along the cabin sides and cockpit coamings.

I know this is a slight heresy, but we're not really in to fishing. We are REALLY in to exploring, though, especially in inclement weather, so we're super excited to have an all-weather porch!
 
I am looking at the same for a 26 Venture.
So, I'm all ears about 7/8" vs 1" frame.

My main concern is the interface of the forward edge
of the canvas with the aft edge of the pilothouse:

1. Leave open and adjust height for headroom
*** This leaves cockpit open to weather, rain

2. Fasten leading edge of canvas to pilothouse
*** Open oval plastic track (secured to pilothouse) into
which the canvas, with a small bolt rope, is slid into the
track. This working piece of canvas (about 8" fore/aft)
will have a zipper on its aft edge to zip to the main
piece of canvas on the frame (?). This seems like a pain.

3. Other ?

Aye.
 
I think the 7/8 stainless steel frame will be plenty strong. If you want 1" tell them you want it. It's the golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. We have a zipper attached the canvas where it attaches to the boat. I think the boat side of the zipper is in a slide on track which has screws in both ends to keep the boat side of the zipper in the track. It also has a Velcro strip that lays over the zipper with one side on the canvas the other on the boat to seal out the rain better. We have zip on sides with windows that has two separate pieces that can be rolled up individually. The sides have notched out areas on each side for the cleats. The forward section of each side has a U shaped window in the window with a to be able to get in and out of the cockpit with out undoing any snaps. and a rear piece is one piece that has three separate sections with windows which can be rolled up individually. Some say they have had the canvas and frame to be free standing like a Bimini so a panel on the front side to be able to be removed for better ventilation. We don't have that and I can't say I miss it. We have air conditioning and we just leave the back door of the cabin open and the cockpit area stays nice and cool. If you are running along having the sides rolled seems like plenty of ventilation for us. Make sure the pins for attaching the canvas frame to the boat have wire retainers so the pins cannot fall out and be lost. My 2 cents
D.D.
 
I only have a bimini (so far), but it makes me wonder something about using a free-standing design. I can see the plusses, but then how does it work for entering the cockpit, with the forward bow there? On my bimini, the "forward" bow is actually a couple of feet aft of the cabin (so the bimini is not free-standing), but that makes it so that when I unzip the forward edge (from the boltrope, which stays in the track on the cabin top), there is free passage to board the boat (the non-boarding side stays zipped on, so the whole works doesn't lose its support).

I'm just curious how the boarding procedure would work with a free-standing top (on which I'm assuming the forward bow would be quite close to the cabin, but maybe that's not correct?).
 
Our original canvas had the Bimini attached to the rear of the cabin with the rope channel and zipper mentioned above. It worked fine except the zipper opened on just one side. That meant unless we wanted to contort ourselves getting in and out of the boat we always had to dock on the port side. On our new canvas we specified a zipper opening both ways. Much better. I would not care for a free standing arrangement. Up here the Bimini is up much of the time and ease of entry exit with it up is a big consideration.
 
The design of the forward bow is dependent on the headroom desired. We prefer that awning rail be installed on the aft end of the cabin top, AND on the cabin sides--this way you keep spray or rain from coming into the cockpit from forward as the boat is moving. There is a zipper which operates from the outside in, both a few inches aft of the awning rail, and anywhere from a foot to 18" aft of the forward zipper. This allows both zippers to be opened for access. Also the entire front part can be zipped out for ventilation (almost mandatory) during hot weather. This is one of the advantages of a free standing awning. With free standing 1" SS tubing, you can also use the forward support post for a hand rail when boarding the boat.

If you live an an area where there are insects, you can choose either standard insect screen, or you can get "no see-em" screen, or a finer mesh.
The screen is best on the outside, then the clear vinyl I prefer one of the quality vinyl--such as Strataglass or EZ2CY. At least 30 Mil clear vinyl. The vinyl should roll up, and there be straps for holding the rolled up vinyl to the top of the window.

Below the plastic awning rail installed along the aft cabin edge. Note the flap with velcro over the zipper, just aft of the awning rail.

Camper_canvas_side_attatchment.jpg

Side view. We choose to have small side windows and no screens on this boat--for privacy--and since we live in Florida, the sides are often rolled up unless it is raining. Note that the entire top panel from the awning rail on the top of the cabin to the first bow can be zipped out for ventilation or ease of boarding. The first panel also is easily opened or removed. All side and back panels roll up, and have straps and snaps to hold them up near the top:

Camper_side_2.jpg
 
Okay, I see - there is enough room forward of the forward bow for boarding. I think I had seen a photo of a different one wherein the forward bow was really close to the cabin top, so that's the image I had in mind.
 
I checked our frame tubing size and is in fact constructed out of 1" stainless steel tubing not the 7/8'' as I had thought. My bad.
D.D.
 
Our camper canvas is quite similar to Will-C, but I wish we had the two zipper version that Colobear described. The oversized bimini top was already on the boat when we bought it, so changing the zippers would have been a PITA.

When I had the camper canvas made JP's Canvas (Crystal River, FL) did a great job, but I may have thrown him a curve. I asked him to use "Tenara" thread (a Goretex-like thread) so the seams would virtually never rip out. Fine. The windows are fine, but they drip/leak around edges. I think what happens is that with traditional thread, the fibers absorb water and once they're saturated they (mostly) don't leak. Tenara thread doesn't absorb water, so virtualy every needle hole becomes a possible entry point for water to seep-in, so we have drippy windows. Poor (over)engineering on my part. Tenara thread is GREAT for many purposes - but don't use it around your windows!

Our back window is three pieces and I like it. It's easy to unzip the center portion to access the outboard, and because the larger-than-normal bimini overhangs the splash well slightly, it can even be opened during light rains (without rain coming into the cockpit).

Best,
C&M
 
Couple of suggestions.

-Ours did not come with straps to hold up the two panels just aft of the cabin. A real PIA when you come to a dock or need to walk to the bow. I installed them myself.
-Along the bottom I wish we had the small, elastic bungie type attachments I saw on Roger & Janet's cat vs. the snaps.
-We have no real need for screens, usually. But last summer when we visited Desolation the mosquitos were out of control. Could have used them then, but it's more to store and more $$ and we won't use them much up here.
-I wish the top was a few inches higher. I'm barely 5'10 and I just barely don't hit it, but my hair rubs against the frame parts. Being taller would also help with ingress, etc.

Tenara thread doesn't absorb water, so virtualy every needle hole becomes a possible entry point for water to seep-in
Click to expand...

Is there someway to "seal" them? I know I've done that with nylon camping tents.
 
Thanks Bob,

I used seam sealer around the edges, and although it helped, there is still some dripping here and there. It's probably not that bad, but since it's one of those self-induced problems I may be a little more sensitive to it. ^%$#@ :embarrased

Best,
C&M
 
Thanks for weighing in, everyone!

We've decided to go with enough support struts to enable a free-standing bimini with a zip-on piece that can connect to the cabin top.

I'm still undecided on the 7/8 vs 1 inch frame issue though.
 
A multi-subject post: On our 22 Cruiser Fun Patrol we have a very functional camper back. It stays down while stored on the trailer and on the road, but we have always put up at least the bimini soon after launch. Maybe back down at sunset for happy hour, or...add on the sides and back for that warm-fuzzy sun room lounge area. Ours snaps to the cabin top and all other attachment points. Water leaks at the top and cabin sides are not a problem. The sides zip to the back and roll up and tie. They are 90% ising glass and have black out covers that also roll up. The back panel was made for the CA Delta, screen with a black out panel that also rolls up. The tubing is only 7/8, but I would go 1 inch SS on the next one. Use metal hardware, not plastic. All this rolls up in the forepeak when not in use.

I also have a full Sunbrella cover that I have modified over the years to cover to below the gelcoat stripe and cover the outboards. This has lasted well, out in the sun, for the 14 years I've owned the boat plus several years prior.

Now for my questions: I recently bought a 25 Cruiser and want to put a camper back on it as well as a Sunbrella full storage cover. Checking online, I chased several ads for boat covers, but they all seem to not be familiar with the 25 although they advertise their "semi-custom" covers will fit. In other words, I might as well throw a tarp over it. Same with the camper back.

I'm looking for recommendations for an online business, or a local brick and mortar shop to Southern CA for both the camper back and a Sunbrella cover.

Thanks,

...Roy Fun Patrol and (the 03 as yet unnamed 25)
 
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