Second anchor suggestions

L

Larry Patrick

New member
The 23 venture has a 25lb manson supreme. I will check archives also. I would like to have an emergency anchor ,if windlass got jammed or just to have a second anchor. Wife will be nervous to be anchoring overnight,not in a marina. I like the idea of being able to drop another anchor if ever need to. Will probably keep it in a milk crate ready to go. Would a 7lb fortress be good? Not sure where will be boating Lake erie, Cayuga ,Chesapeake,florida ect. What anchor grabs in most conditions,also can use it when backed into shore,like everyone does at lake powell. With a single motor feel like a second anchor should be on board. Thanks for ideas.
 
Absolutely the Fortress FX7 is what I have for back up, and stern. Actually two are the fortress, and the 3rd is the Guardian 7. One of the Fortress I got at a neighbor's garage sale for $5 (it was a bit corroded but cleaned up well.) These anchors only weigh 4#.
 
The Fortress is a good choice for sand and mud, but not for rocky bottoms. I boat on the Chesapeake and have been using a Fortress FX 11 for the bow and a Fortress FX 7 for the stern, since 2004. They set easily and hold firm.
 
Thanks for informed replys,will be ordering one. Defender marine says the magnesium alloy is stronger than the others,are you guys using the magnesium alloy,or which metal are you suggesting thanks. Any suggestions where to order. Also the 4lb fortress fx7 should be sufficient for the heavier 23 venture?
 
I would think that with that light of an anchor (4-7#) it would be a good idea to have at least a boat length of chain or a sentinel to keep it dug in. Or am I thinking "Over build" again?

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

IMG_2044_sized_1.thumb.jpg
 
We are suggesting the Fortress or Guardian. Here is the difference according to Fortress:

Benefiting from years of Fortress Anchor Research and Development, Guardian offers excellent quality, performance and economy. Guardian is made from the same high tensile, corrosion resistant aluminum magnesium alloy and manufacturing precision as Fortress.

The use of slightly smaller extrusion profiles and the elimination of some of Fortress' extra features, such as anodizing, adjustable fluke angles, and several machining steps has resulted in a very affordable alternative to those heavy, rust-prone steel anchors.

Features:

Made of aluminum magnesium alloy
Click to expand...

The Guardian 11 is $90 at Defender, and the Fortress FX is $137. There is the second angle (mud angle of 45 degrees, vs the 32 degrees for the standard "sand".

The Fortress looks nicer initially, and should have less corrosion due to the anodizing. I just sold a FX 16 for $100 plus shipping (about $25)--too big for the C Dory, but I had used it on a 30 footer as primary anchor. I have owned it for many years, but not used a lot. It looked like new. If you anchor a lot in thick soupy mud--and these is some in the Chesapeake area, then go with the Fortress. The Fortress tests show a 840 holding power in soft mud, the Guardian only 420 for the 7 The 11 is 1080 vs 540.
Take that for what it is worth--the difference is the 45 degree fluke angle, not the different in the anchor themselves. I feel that the FX 7 is adequate for the 23 (and the 25, especially as a stern anchor--and I used the FX 7 as stern anchors on my C Dory 25).

Yes, they are not as good in rocks--no question. The SuperMax, the Manson, the Boss, and the Bruce style are better in these.

Although I used the HT Danforth for many years, I favor the Fortress now.
 
It may be overkill, but I use a Fortress FX-16 plus 100 feet of 1/4" GS40 chain (and 250 feet of 1/2" 3-strand nylon rope) on my CD-22.

Seems to hook up anywhere, anytime.

Some of these steep walled reservoirs like Shasta Lake, have a mixed bag of rocks, sand, mud, clay, and more on their bottoms, which, combined with the steep gradient and narrow coves in which room to anchor and put out a lot of scope is at a premium, makes one want to hook up good and fast.

The FX-16 seems to do the job. And I'm sue the chain is a major factor in making it work.

The biggest "hang up' is when you manage to hook in to an old stump, pine or oak tree, but that's another story I have logged away on this web site about 8-10 years back in time.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
These Fortress anchors are excellent, especially for folding spares. I had a sizable one on my Morgan 33, and because of their being so light, I used one as both a stern anchor and a backup primary ( double duty).

But, beware. They are aluminum. They will tend to slide along the bottom in some situations. It is important you use a good length of chain to help it dig in and hookup.

I was once anchored inside Cat Kay Cut in the Bahamas. A squall blew through the anchorage. I watched a sailboat being blown backwards through the fleet, ending up off the banks, back through the cut and luckily, missing the reef, back out into the ocean. The captain was kneeling on the deck the whole time tending the anchor line and trying to make it set. Talking to him later, he had lost his primary anchor somehow, had assembled the Fortress and hurriedly tied it on without chain. No matter what he tried, it would not set.

I had 50ft of chain on mine and it always set quickly and held tenaciously.
 
In line with what anchorout said, I carried a Fortress 7# for years. And then I tried to use it in some kelp at Santa Cruz Island. The damn thing was too light to set and I didn't make too many friends as I drifted. Had 25' of 1/4" HT chain on it. Great for sand or mud, not so good when you really need an anchor to dig in. A light anchor is nice to look at, but when you need it to really dig in, you need weight.

I now have a West Marine Danforth copy, galvanized steel that's twice as heavy and half the price and works well in rock and kelp. Any day now I'm going to get a real Danforth, but this WM one does work well. I'm convinced that the Danforth steel type is the best all around anchor.

I also bought a Manson Supreme for it's sharp points to dig in. And I took it up to the PNW which has a lot of mud and sand. That sucker was thin enough to just slide through the mud. Worked well in kelp and rocks, though.

I use the Bruce for mud, which has wide flanges to hold the mud though those flanges are too blunt to set in kelp.

Boris
 
Anchors are like religion. There are lots of individual opinions. It is best to carry several types. Weight is great--except in some small craft, it becomes counter productive.

Anchoring is an art. I have had anchors not set, but left it out anyway. Got another anchor to set, and then work up in the morning, to find that the one anchor I thought had set, with good reverse power, had drug thru the night, and the one I thought had not set, we dug well in. Often anchors take time to set. There are times when identical anchors will not set in one part of the cove, which seems to have the same bottom as another part of the cove.

Kelp, I have always considered very tenuous anchoring. It is so easy for kelp to break, and the foul an anchor--and it will. Rocks can foul an anchor. One of the best anchors in most all of the tests is the Super Max. Rumor was that it was going to be made again, and today I found a web page which is active. For C Dorys the anchor is made in 9# (boats up to 3000 lbs) ($99) and #18 (boats up to 5,000 lbs) $350. They are difficult to stow.

If my anchor does not hold, or the wind shifts so I feel my boat may be in danger, than I move the boat--even if at 3AM. One night I moved our Cal 46 3 times between midnight and 6 AM due to wind shifts. The wind was blowing almost 90 knots at some points.
 
Bob is correct, as usual. Kelp is really really bad for holding and can't be trusted.

When I started anchoring around Santa Cruz in the '70s, anchorages such as Pelican Harbour were fairly clear of kelp and I could find patches of sand for my (Danforth) anchor to dig in. The last time I was there, last year, there were only 3 boats in Pelican and when I tried anchoring all we could find was kelp. We tried to set the anchor through the kelp into the sand, but I honestly think that all we got was kelp. We found the same conditions at Frys Harbour. I think that fewer boats are visiting Santa Cruz Isl due to the downturn. Now that things are picking up, perhaps enough boats will visit the various harbours to clean out the kelp.

Bob is also correct in that everybody thinks their anchor is the best, just like religion. We left Pelican and went to the Ventura Yacht Club for a day. Every type of anchor was on the bow of the various boats and they all thought theirs was best. Yes, I asked. So when I discuss an anchor I try to give a few reasons why I think an anchor is good for various conditions. I think all anchors have their good and bad points.

Boris
 
I don't remember if Boris had the benefit of boating in the channel Islands in the 1940's and 50's--or even the 60's. Back then there was a lot of harvesting of the kelp in the channel Islands. There were a fleet of "kelp Cutters" who would go out every morning, and bing back many tons of kelp in the evening, where it was offloaded ground up and processed, in San Pedro (not far from where Boris and we had lunch a few months ago. I think that kept the kelp down. The latest regulations in the Channel Island limit a lot of activity (and kelp cutting has not been done for many years.)

Also before the current generation of anchors, it was gospel that you had to have at least a 35 lb anchor to make it set---and a 45 was far better. Of course boats like Jeff Siegel 53 foot Defever, have two 120 lb Ronca's on the bow rollers…so serious cruiser still believe in the weight factor! The exception was the Danforth's which came from the WWII landing barges and weight was about 50 to 75 lbs and were cast, rather than forged:

MVC-041S3.jpg

There were two types of the WW Danforth anchors-the one pictured above, and one which had the "T" inner edge of the fluke, a stock which was removable, with a pin or S shaped wire to hold it in place, with the outer parts of the flukes rounded. I cannot find a single picture of these anchors--and I gave mine away during Hurricane Ivan (I think). Neither of these had the flukes attached to the stock as the modern Danforth type does. The 35 and 50 lb anchors used on the smaller landing craft in the Pacific were sold in mass numbers for about $10 in Wilmington CA right after the war. The bronze ones cost $25! The feature of all of the Danforth was the 32 degree angle of the fluke with the shank. Today that same angle is used in the Fortress, and any of the imitation "Danforth" anchors.
 
We are a little strange in some of what we carry but in this case it does work for us and maybe others. We don't carry a normal second rode and anchor but instead we carry what we can use more frequently and still provides backup functions.

We have two 50ft anchor buddies on board and each is rigged with its own 3ft length of 5/16 chain and small 1kg claw anchor on one and grapple on the other. I have other line on board and could connect the two together plus some other line to make an easy 200+ft double anchored rode that would slow us down if the main is lost. We don't have a windlass so the only thing to go wrong with the main Rocna setup would be to lose it. The anchor buddies otherwise get used regularly for shore work and dinghy management and I have been known to hang one directly down off the bow eye while anchored with the main to simple reduce our swing in very protected sites. Works well and I have been surprised how well these small anchors can hold in bottoms we frequent. The claw is stronger holding in my experience but the grapple provides different holding properties when needed and enough for the dink anytime.

Greg

Greg
 
Interesting about your anchor setups, Aurelia.

I have a setup that was my dinghy rode from a previous boat (I carried it in the dinghy, in other words), and, somewhat to my surprise, I found it really handy for various uses aboard the 22 at Powell. I can't remember the exact details, but it's something like 75' of 3/8" 3-strand; 20' of chain (1/4" I think); and then a tiny Bruce - I think a pound or so. That anchor size because it would fit through the round deckplate on the dinghy stowage compartment.

This was one setup for which I actually did "throw out the anchor" in some (but not all) cases. Anyway, very handy for numerous purposes.

I also carry a main on the bow roller, which is a 15# Manson Supreme, ~225' of 1/2" Brait, and 25' of 1/4" G4 chain, and a second setup (in a duffel bag) which is a 9# Bruce clone, ~250' of 1/2" 3-strand, and 20' of 1/4" G4 chain. The Bruce clone is slightly ungainly for carrying around the boat/in the dinghy, etc. so I am going to try a small Guardian (Thanks, Casey!). Not sure it will replace the Bruce clone though.... maybe it will be a (fourth!) anchor aboard. Good thing two are very small/light :D
 
journey on":2opwxtup said:
Bob is correct, as usual. Kelp is really really bad for holding and can't be trusted.

When I started anchoring around Santa Cruz in the '70s, anchorages such as Pelican Harbour were fairly clear of kelp and I could find patches of sand for my (Danforth) anchor to dig in. The last time I was there, last year, there were only 3 boats in Pelican and when I tried anchoring all we could find was kelp. We tried to set the anchor through the kelp into the sand, but I honestly think that all we got was kelp. We found the same conditions at Frys Harbour. Ic

Bob is also correct in that everybody thinks their anchor is the best, just like religion. We left Pelican and went to the Ventura Yacht Club for a day. Every type of anchor was on the bow of the various boats and they all thought theirs was best. Yes, I asked. So when I discuss an anchor I try to give a few reasons why I think an anchor is good for various conditions. I think all anchors have their good and bad points.

Boris
Click to expand...

Yikes Boris
Lets not wish for the destruction of kelp-- just for a secure anchor site
Kelp-Kelp forests are underwater areas with a high density of kelp. They are recognized as one of the most productive and dynamic ecosystems on Earth.[1] Wiki quote
 
Channel Islands is one of 5 major marine sanctuaries on the West Coast. Certainly that should help to increase the kelps survival and proliferation there. (Monterey, Farallones Cordell Bank, and Olympic Coast are the other sanctuaries, where the kelp forests are being re-established.) Over all there has continued a decline in the Giant and Bull Kelp forests along the West Coast. There are many factors involved in the decline of the Kelp forests, and their restoration.

I doubt that Boris wished for any harm to th Kelp forests, and that was just an observation. I can remember since the 50's having to look for sandy patches to set the anchor in all of the channel Islands. This is good stewardship. In Florida there are steep fines for harming grass beds in certain areas. Yet it seems to be well established that tug and barge traffic has largely impacted the grass beds along the Gulf Coast ICW. Although there are many difference between the Pacific kelp, and the Gulf Coast Sea Grasses, there are many similarities, in that they are essential for the ecosystems health in the ocean.
 
Most aren't fortunate enough to have this privilege, but I usually carry a subsistence longline complete with a decent danforth anchor with my old rode and chain on it, as well as a small danforth that isn't bad as a stern anchor sometimes, but wouldn't hold the boat in any kind of current or blow.

Thus, I can pull my longline with a buoy (that is pretty tricky to do and not lose fish!), and have a backup anchor without any extra gear!

BUT, now that I'm reading, I think I might swap that steel thing out for a Fortress. Then that extra anchor can pack up under the settee (where the current one is) and leave room for more stuff!

Thanks for asking a good question that got me thinking about my setup!
 
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