SEA LICE, SALMON - CANADA (BRITISH COLUMBIA)

I don't think it's a matter of closing the fish farms. Like many in here have already mentioned , we should be looking at ways to make it work. If we can have farms in areas that do not impact the wild salmon, then by all means they should be there.

I am a little suprised by the lack of empathy for the fisherman. Not all fisherman are large corporations that raped and pillaged the oceans.


And Tom you are correct. I don't like nor trust politicians on either side of our border.

regards
 
"I don't like politicians on either side of the border" Didn't Randy Weaver say that?
 
"I don't like politicians on either side of the border" Didn't Randy Weaver say that?
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Actually it was your founding fathers that warned against trusting politicians.

hmmm..wondering why I had to tell you that?


Regards

ryder
 
Dan problem with your theory.. Is a small ma and pa operation can't do nearly the damage a large corporation can. I prefer to deal with real world scenarios not hyberbole.

Regards

ryder
 
AstoriaDave":2bkl89nk said:
Oldgrowth wrote: Dave - I am glad you decided to hang around a while longer. Personally I took a little offense with your statement that the site had degraded into too many threads like this. If I remember correctly, you were a major contributor to this thread and you contributed to several other controversial threads.

There are plenty of other threads that do not deal with anything controversial, so anyone that doesn't not like subjects like this, quit reading it as soon as you determine it is controversial. Don't try and ruin it for those that want to discuss these issues in a rational and civil way.

Oldgrowth, is that last sentence directed at me? Are you suggesting that anything I have written within this thread is irrational or uncivil, or would in some way lead to uncivil, irrational discourse? Before I respond, I just want to make sure that is what you mean to say. I'd be happy to receive a PM, in lieu of a public response, if that makes you more comfortable.

Thanks a heap.
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Dave - the first paragraph you quoted from me was directed to you, the second paragraph was directed to every one that objects to this type of thread. In most cases almost everyone that engages in these discussions are civil in their post and I include you in this category. I can't remember any of your post being uncivil in any thread.

Because of your statement that "the site had degraded into too many threads like this" and you are not the only one that feels that way, I added the next paragraph hoping every one that feel as you do, would quit reading threads dealing with controversial subjects.

It is the name-calling and personal insults that so often seem to be thrown about when someone thinks the other person does not get his or her point or you criticize their favorite politician or scientist. Some kidding between people discussing the issue adds a little flavor and humor to the thread and keeps the discussion from becoming boring. But when someone else jumps in and starts throwing insults, the thread tends to get out of hand. Then Bill has to lock the thread and it is bad for all of us.

Anyone that cannot enter into these discussions in a civil and rational way should stay out of the discussions and if that person is not able to control his or her impulse to add to the discussion, he or she should not read the threads dealing with these issues.

I hope this clears up what I said in the second paragraph that you quoted from me and thank you for not taking it personal until giving me a chance to explain.

PS, I too like your boat. It is a neat looking boat. In another thread, I will ask you some questions about it, but not here. Don't want to detract from this discussion.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
a hundred boats will land the same amount of fish whether they do it for a hundred owners or for one owner.
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Dan...I don't know what to tell you. I have no idea where your 100 came from. I can assure you though that a well oiled corporate logging company with a 100 men and the finances for the best equipment can out harvest a 1000 independents. And so it goes for any industry.

However I agree with a point you made earlier that whether it's independents or corporations, there has to be regulation.

regards
Jim
 
Thoughts from a person who not only loves the wild wilderness areas, but has also spent a good deal of time alone or with few others in them and who’s inner most selve would fade away without them.

Dan, I just finished reading a book “Boone a Biography” by Robert Morgan that really illustrates your well-made points.

Daniel Boone was one of the most honest and courageous men that this nation ever produced with an unequaled genius for wilderness travel and survival along with the same unequaled appreciation for the forest, animals and Indians who inhabited it. Yet He did more to destroy the very things He loved than any other single person in the history of our country.

You are absolutely right it’s not just the corporations that plunder our resources, they just show up the largest on many individuals radar and they are easy targets for the media. With good regulations in place they actually have the funds to in many cases do things right, in fact in some cases where the regulations are so expensive to meet they are they only ones who have the capital to deal with them. It’s more how the many individual millions of us use these natural resources from beginning undeveloped wilderness to the end product of the different business ventures, that will continue to have the most effect on their loss, waste or overuse.

Jay
 
I was just watching a documentary on the Alaska coast a few years ago when wild life was covered with oil . The devastation to the area was horrible. Must have been all those individuals spilling their sun tan oil.
:lol:

Regards
ryder
 
ryder":3pifz1n3 said:
a hundred boats will land the same amount of fish whether they do it for a hundred owners or for one owner.
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Dan...I don't know what to tell you. I have no idea where your 100 came from. I can assure you though that a well oiled corporate logging company with a 100 men and the finances for the best equipment can out harvest a 1000 independents. And so it goes for any industry.

However I agree with a point you made earlier that whether it's independents or corporations, there has to be regulation.

regards
Jim
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Hi Jim – I don't know how it is in Canada, but my gut feelings is it is the same there as here. I have been in Canada looking at their equipment and bought some to use in the US.

The independent loggers have as modern, new and up to date logging equipment as the big corporations (Weyerhauser, Boise Cascade, International Pacific) or any other giant corporation. The independent does most of the logging for the large corporations because they can do the job cheaper, more efficient and they cut more timber than the large corporations. Same for the government. The independent does most of the logging for it, for the same reason.

Large corporations are like the government, when they become real large they become inefficient and the small independent can out produce them. That is why the small independents are able to compete with them.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Dave i agree with most of what you said. However the small independents do not compete with the large corporations. As you pointed out they usually work for them. Or if they do compete it is in a very limited way. I live just a few miles from a mill. The mill is primarily supplied by the large corporations. Independents contribute very little.

A side note. As an adult I have never worked for anyone.(too independent and hard to get along with) I have always been in business for myself. I am 100% pro entrepeneur. That being said I equate large corporations with bureaucracy and waste. I have seen the damage that they do. I have seen small businesses in your country and mine devastated by the box stores and the walmarts as an example. The independent spirit is attractive to me. The corporate mentality is no different then the mob mentality to me. Does that mean that some corporations haven't done some good things? Of course not. But when you weigh it out..I will always cheer for the individual.

regards
Ryder
 
ryder":1gbdtld8 said:
Dave i agree with most of what you said. However the small independents do not compete with the large corporations. As you pointed out they usually work for them. Or if they do compete it is in a very limited way.
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Jim – I beg to disagree with you. They do compete with the large corporations. They do not work for them any more than you as an independent business owner works for your customer. I don't know what you do but I am sure you compete with much bigger companies that produce the same product as you or provides the same service as you.

In logging, the large corporations put up a unit to be cut and the independent loggers bid on it. The one with the lowest bid that is capable of doing the job, gets it. Most independents will log for more than one corporation as well as the government and often times have their own land they manage. Saying they work for the large corporations is like saying every supplier for WalMart, works for WalMart. You know and I know that is not true.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
Dave
In logging, the large corporations put up a unit to be cut and the independent loggers bid on it. The one with the lowest bid that is capable of doing the job, gets it.
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We agree . they are working for the large corporation.
 
Oops... I didnt mean it the way it came out... Dave the loggers are being paid by the corporation to do their labor. Although technically they are not employees , they perform the same function without the ususal benefits.

regards

JIm
 
ryder":15dnlrca said:
Oops... I didnt mean it the way it came out... Dave the loggers are being paid by the corporation to do their labor. Although technically they are not employees , they perform the same function without the ususal benefits.

regards

JIm
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Jim - apparently my use of the term of independent loggers confused you. I will try one more time. A company called Big has a unit to be logged. Company Small gets the job to log it. Big has no obligation to pay the employees of company Small. Small pays their own employees and provides the benefits to them. Often times the employees of company small are paid better than the employees of Big. Most of the time the employees of company Small do not want to work for a large corporation.

You said you are in business for your self, so let me use you as an example. I will call you a boat builder because I don't really know what you do and you own Ryder Boats. RB bids on 10 boats for a Resort Community. You get the job and have employees to do the labor. You manage the company. RC has no obligation to pay RB's employees or provide benefits to them. Your employees are not working for RC, they are working for you. That is the way it is here in the states. I can be wrong but I believe it is the same in Canada.

If you want to say RC is paying your employees then you might as well go one step farther and say the people staying at the Resort Community is paying for your employees or lets go one step farther. The people paying the people at the Resort Community are paying your employees or maybe the people paying the people that pays the people at the Resort Community. . . .

If you still don't understand, maybe someone else can do a better job of explaining it, because apparently I am not able to.
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Dave dlt.gif
 
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