San Diego CG vessel collides with Sea Ray, killing 1

[localboy]

Bobbing around on the water in the dark with all the other boats is certainly a challenge.

We were out w/ friends on Lake Tapps a few yrs ago for their 4th fireworks show. Us and ~200 other boats of all sizes. What a mess. I can only imagine how many of those boaters had been, uh, enjoying some adult beverages. Thankfully everyone seemed congnizant of the close quarters and we made it back w/out issue, but it was interesting.

I have spent years around law enforcement and the hardest thing to teach these young officers is that they are absolutely required to intervene when another officer is making a mistake...

It's called leadership. IME the younger "bucks" are usually full of vinegar as you stated. In general, I see the leadership quality in those that come from the armed forces, but not from those that come from, say, a university/civilian life, where being accepted by a group is a social requirement.

This incident is a sad situation all around.

 

[Sneaks]

I hope they give the driver and the boat commander stiff prison terms without parole as a message to any other potential killers operating under cloak of authority.

I'm confident that statement is certainly not shared by the average C-Dory owner, Westfield. I better stop here or I'm afraid I'll violate the cardinal rule of this forum: "Be nice".

Have a nice day, Westfield. :roll:

 

[Captains Cat]

I hope they give the driver and the boat commander stiff prison terms without parole as a message to any other potential killers operating under cloak of authority.

I'm confident that statement is certainly not shared by the average C-Dory owner, Westfield. I better stop here or I'm afraid I'll violate the cardinal rule of this forum: "Be nice".

Have a nice day, Westfield. :roll:

Me too Don. :amgry

charlie

 

[localboy]

I hope they give the driver and the boat commander stiff prison terms without parole as a message to any other potential killers operating under cloak of authority.

Wow. :roll: :thdown Just read that.









Where is that drawer....

 

[Tortuga]

... but not from those that come from, say, a university/civilian life, where being accepted by a group is a social requirement...

Clearly you've never been in a faculty meeting... :crook

 

[Westfield 11]

I hope they give the driver and the boat commander stiff prison terms without parole as a message to any other potential killers operating under cloak of authority.

I'm confident that statement is certainly not shared by the average C-Dory owner, Westfield. I better stop here or I'm afraid I'll violate the cardinal rule of this forum: "Be nice".

Have a nice day, Westfield. :roll:

I regret any hurt feelings, but I feel quite passionately about those who commit crimes while wearing a uniform. After 6 months of investigation extremely harsh charges were laid against all involved, by the Coast Guard, indicating both the serious nature of the crime and the culpability of those charged. The fact that a manslaughter charge was laid against the coxswain shows that this was NOT an accident.

I strongly dispute that the 4 individuals that caused the death of a young child are victims of any sort, nor do I feel that they are worthy of our sympathy in any way. I am very much surprised to learn that most folks here are opposed to long jail terms for them if found guilty.

Be that as it may, I am sorry to have offended by being so blunt in my first post, but, I just couldn't think of anything nice to say about the 4 who killed that 8 year-old boy. Can you?

 

[rogerbum]

Young men have long been known to occasionally act without fully thinking through the consequences. While these men must be held accountable, to have equated this as close to murder is simply wrong. Murder is usually defined as the "unlawful killing of another with malice aforethought (or "an abandoned and malignant heart"). Malice aforethought refers to the perpetrator's intention of doing harm. Clearly these young men had no intention of doing harm and were intending to do good by supplying rapid help to a grounded vessel. Hence, the manslaughter charge.

Personally, I'm certain that these guys are responsible for bad judgment but not bad intent. I'm also certain that they feel terrible about the outcome. IMHO the thing to be gained by harsh punishment is that it will reinforce to others that they need to think more carefully about their actions in the future. I think this can be accomplished in other ways also (more training examples etc) and see no good reason to go beyond the customary penalty for manslaughter.

I also feel your argument was lessened by your claim/feeling that "They once looked upon us citizens as victims to be helped and given succor, now we are all just suspects and possible terrorists and smugglers." I personally know a number of men in the coast guard. Without a single exception, all of them are there to help our country in anyway they can. I can tell you that I am damn happy to have local CG every time I venture into the ocean as many a mariner's life has been saved by the actions of these brave men. The fact that they are also charged with being on the lookout for possible terrorists and smugglers does not lessen the commitment to help our citizens but rather increases it. Yes, we sometimes get stopped by the coast guard and inspected. If they drop their guard and a real terrorists gets through, they will then be criticized for not doing enough. I think that by putting all of the coast guard in a bad light due to the careless action of a few, you have done a disservice to the 1000's of other guardsmen that bust their butts every day to keep you and me safe on the water.

 

[Larry H]

A harsh punishment may deter future mistakes of this type,

It may also deter otherwise good men and women from enlisting in the CG.

It may also deter a prompt and heroic response to emergencies by CG units in the future. If the men in the boats are afraid of prosecution for errors, they will be more timid in their actions.

When responding to an emergency there needs to be 'all deliberate haste'. Obviously in this case, there was too much haste and not enough deliberation.

How would these same men have been charged if the boat aground had capsized and a child's life was lost because they responded too slowly?

I do think that 35 to 45 knots of speed in those circumstances was way too fast. That's easy to see after the fact.

There is also the element of 'command mindset'. What was the expectation of the officers in charge of this unit? Did they insist on fast response times to emergencies in San Diego? Did they chastise their units if they were too slow?

Will criminal penalties improve the performance of the CG rescue units or not?

 

[journey on]

Look, I'm not going to argue against the Coast Guard. I admire them. I just want to provide a little insight as to the tragedy for those who haven't boated in San Diego Bay.

First a lot of people like to to 20-25 knots in the bay, because it's so smooth and has lots of space. The space is great, until it get's crowded with boats. and the people still do 20-25 knots. That's a mind set and it's dangerous. When we've been on a sailboat, we've nearly been swamped by the !@#$ go fast boats of all sizes. And they get mad if you point out their wake, since I'm not too polite about that.

So the Coast Guard joins in the fun. Those boats have plenty of power since 9/11, and they like to use it. I guess it goes along with the 50 caliber gun on the front. I've learned to stay out of their way.

So here you have a crowded harbor, a go-fast Coast Guard, and random boats. That's asking for trouble, and unfortunately, the Coast Guard got it. They killed a person, and the brass doesn't appreciate that. Obviously I'm not the only one who feels that the troops on the water need a little more discipline. If that slows down the response, maybe that's a good thing. San Diego Bay is pretty benign and the emergencies are created by peoples stupidity. The Coast Guard doesn't need to respond at 30-35 knots to stupidity, and now they've learned that lesson (again.)

By the way, normally if you're aground and nobody's in danger, I thought the Coast Guard told you to call a commercial tow?

Boris

 

[Sneaks]

And I'm not defending the Coasties either, Boris. I'm just outraged at the mindset that goes along with blanket statements like this:

I hope they give the driver and the boat commander stiff prison terms without parole as a message to any other potential killers operating under cloak of authority.

I'm certainly going to avoid attacking the author in this forum simply because his ignorance could stem from either never wearing a uniform or bitter experience close up and personal with uniformed civilian authorities. Anything I have to say to him will be via PM or email. Suffice to say we have a large number of former and active duty CG Brats on this site. They are a family and just like when a son/daughter does something stupid and causes harm, the family grieves for both the victim and the family member. They do, however, expect fair and equal justice, not heavy handed vengence.

I'm not a Coastie but Charlie and I have close to 50 years combined wearing uniforms and if you just count Dusty's time it's probably over a century. We have firemen on here who wear uniforms, police officers, all sorts of uniformed Brats. I consider them all "extended family", and when I learn that one of us has stupidly caused a fatality I grieve with them as well. It's still a tragedy in all respects.

I tried to clear out before breaking "the Rule". Hopefully I didn't 'cause if I did I'll catch hell privately. :shock:

Don

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I hope they give the driver and the boat commander stiff prison terms without parole as a message to any other potential killers operating under cloak of authority.

I find that statement inappropriate and offensive. The Coast Guard personell made a mistake, and I suspect that they will pay dearly for it, but there is no reason for that level of vindictiveness.

 

[Sneaks]

Another unfortunate update to a sad story:

The San Diego Log has this lead story in their latest issue.

Please note: The NTSB has still not determined the actual cause so assumptions and speculation is not appropriate at this time.

Don

 

[matt_unique]

Hi yi yi....article does not provide great detail but cell phones in the pilot house are bad news.

Forgive the language here but I think Coasties have balls of solid steel to do what they do, and I have great respect for them.

I do think they have to demonstrate a higher standard than the average Joe considering their position of authority and it appears mistakes were made. A CG vessel once passed my bow at night at about 30 knots without any radio hail. They passed within 30' and it was absolutely ridiculous considering the available space. I was lumbering along at 7 knots with passengers aboard and there were no other vessels in the vicinity.

What a tragic, tragic incident.