Rose Point Coastal Explorer - Our Choice for the Great Loop

[Pat Anderson]

We have an 11 year old Raymarine C-80, so old it uses the obsolete Navionics CF cards instead of SD chips. The Navionics cards for the Great Loop are probably not even available, but if they were, they would cost a small fortune. We are going to do the Great Loop starting around April 1, 2017. What to do for a navigation system?

We could completely replace the Raymarine (GPS, depth sounder module and radar) with something more current at a staggering cost. But the Raymarine C-80 is still adequate for Puget Sound, BC and Alaska cruising, as I have the US West Coast, Vancouver Island, and Northern BC to Baranoff Island Navionics CF cards, and the Great Loop is kind of a one-time thing.

We recently met up with Lyle and Shelley Von Essen on the 46 West Coast Bessie. Lyle and Shelley formerly had a CD25 named Bess-C. Lyle showed us his nav system, a PC based system running Coastal Explorer. It was quite amazing. A thought entered my head, this might be the solution for us.

I had purchased Coastal Explorer in 2004 or so. I checked with Rose Point Software, and was amazed to learn that 12 years later as a registered owner, I was still entitled to upgrade to the latest version for $99. So I went out and bought a used Toshiba Satellite laptop (very respectable specs, BTW) for $140, and purchased and installed the upgraded Coastal Explorer. Coastal Explorer uses the free NOAA and USACE charts, which cover the entire Great Loop. CE also supports Active Captain as a free add-on, and I have that installed in Coastal Explorer now too.

So how is this going to work? First off, Rose Point support is simply awesome. They have a support forum, they answer phone calls, and respond to emails. I have made liberal use of their support services in figuring out how I am going to do this!

I was going to buy a certain multiplexer and an AIS receiver. The support tech pointed out that as he read the specs, the AIS receiver I had decided on would actually eliminate the need for the multiplexer. The AIS receiver will take an NMEA input from the C-80, which will provide location, depth and speed, and multiplex that with the AIS data and pass it on to the laptop running Coastal Explorer via a USB connection. So I have ordered the AIS receiver and an antenna splitter from Defender. I have a little 16" TV that we used in our Okanogan fifth wheel connected to the laptop via HDMI and it looks great. I am thinking the little TV will live directly in front of the C-80, which will not be used for anything except sending data to the computer. I have a wireless mouse and the laptop is setup to run with the cover closed. I still need to actually see how all this will fit at and behind the helm of course, but I think this is all going to work great.

Cindie Lang is skeptical of any Windows based system, and as may be known, I am a Mac guy and no fan of Windows. But the Toshiba has a fresh install of Windows 7 and all the updates have been applied, and so far, it seems to be running flawlessly. Coastal Explorer only runs on Windows and there is no Mac navigation software that is even close to Coastal Explorer.

So I am thinking for under $800, including computer, Coastal Explorer software upgrade, free government charts, AIS receiver and antenna splitter, I should have a completely satisfactory nav system for the Great Loop. Time will tell, I guess!

 

[NancyandBud]

Sounds like you have a great system for a relatively low cost.

Looking forward to seeing how it all works out in real life!

 

[Will-C]

We have used Coastal Explorer since 2009. Rosepoint's support for this software is unbelievable. Their software includes the ability for private and public blogs and you can post pictures on the blog. They frequently update the free charts you have selected in your chart portfolio. We use a Vesper AIS system as a separate unit. We power the laptop with a 400w inverter that plugs into a 12vdc cigarette lighter type receptacle. You can do routes and they are saved as windows files in your documents. We use a GPS puck with a USB connection velcroed just inside the front window.
That way Coastal Explorer operates as a totally separate nav device. If you have internet available (we use a portable Verizon Jet Pack while on the water) you have a conditions tab to access weather conditions for the area you are traveling. A places tab pops up Marinas, tidal info on places like Malibu Rapids or Dodd's Narrows or anywhere tides can effect your travel on the water.
We have a 7212 12" Garmin which we use for radar, depth, and a chart screen as a back up for redundancy. All of our routing is done on the laptop
no expensive chips to buy for automatic Garmin routing. The best part you do routing any where you can carry your computer. Buy a new boat just put the GPS puck and the laptop on the new boat no exotic wiring required.
I can't imagine ever changing the way we do routes and navigate.
D.D.

 

[Pat Anderson]

We chose the Digital Yacht AISPro100 AIS receiver and the Vesper Marine AIS - VHF Antenna Splitter. With all the information, including location, depth, speed and AIS output all on the computer screen, we don't need to see the Raymarine screen for anything (except radar). The NMEA out of the Raymarine goes to the NMEA in of the Digital Yacht AIS receiver, multiplexes it with the AIS signal, and outputs it all to the computer screen via USB. We are going with an external screen attached to the laptop via HDMI so we can run the laptop with the lid closed and have the screen directly in front of us at the helm. I am thinking of replacing the little TV with a real 16" thin USB computer monitor for about another $100. I can also see replacing the laptop with a dedicated Quantum Bytes mini-PC at some point, which would tuck neatly on the shelf behind the helm.

Compare this with tearing out the entire Raymarine system and replacing it for what, $10,000 - $12,000 or more for a new system? There is a radar add-on for Coastal Explorer as well, and I can actually see the entire old Raymarine system going away at some point, but that is not decided yet!

 

[20dauntless]

I've been using CE for three years and about 1700 hours of cruising. It's fast and stable even on cheap hardware, super capable, and easy to use. I have a bunch of cartography installed—NOAA vector and raster (both free), CHS raster, and CMAP. Being able to instantly switch between charts is incredibly useful.

I can't remember the last time I switched the Simrad MFD to a chart display...

 

[journey on]

A free alternate is OpenCpn. This is a free Windoze or Mac program that uses the free NOAA USA charts. This includes all the charts for the Great Loop.

OpenCpn includes GPS, AIS and radar overlay (if you have a Garmin or Lowrance radar.) I have used all the features and they work well

From comparing it with Coastal Explorer, it's the equivalent. Here's the website: opencpn.org/ocpn/.

Boris

 

[thataway]

As often there is more than one way to skin a cat--or C Dory. I am also being a bit of a "devil's advocate".

I am sure Pat's set up will work fine. We all have our different opinions, and this is what makes life so interesting... I am presenting other options for those who are looking at systems for navigation.

There is another option, SEAiq. This was mentioned in the Trawler and Trawlering list server today. I have no experience with it. However users said it was equal to Coastal Explorer/Rose Point etc--AIS, Auto Pilots, Windows, Mac, Linix, I OS, etc platforms, with the same learning curve.

When we had the trawler we experimented with laptop type of navigation systems. Our objection was the screen brightness. As I recollect one needs close to a 1000 nit brightness to see a screen in the sun. (special screens are available up to 2500 nit).

Be sure that you laptop or TV screen (?) has this capability, or you may have to work under a hood. Not the best of ideas, since you have to take your eyes off the water. The shaded C Dory cabin may be OK--but get the brightest screen you can find! What works at home, may not seem adequate for on the water....consider that many using lap tops are using them on trawlers, where there is a huge amount of real estate available.

I have seen all sorts of navigation systems on the C Dory--probably one of the best is I pad with Navionics. I use that sometimes. To me adding a computer, TV, several different brands, can be a study in frustration getting all to "talk" to each other. I am using a 10" Garmin 1040 sx (All of the charts included), with the Standard Horizon VHF radio, AIS output, to an older 5" Garmin. This gives all of the AIS information you need on a chart plotter, and click on the ship image, the info comes up on the old GPS screen. No splitters, adaptors, etc necessary--just hook up the wires, for NMEA. It is handy, you can see when the tug in the lock you are waiting for begins to move. Not necessary on the big rivers for passing as it might be on the ICW. /This is all tied in with the MMSI number on the radio.

The Garmin 1040 sx with 18" HD radar is about $3,000. (Includes all of the charts for the loop, including all rivers and lakes of the US). I picked up a being discontinued, 740S, for about $700. I got my son a Garmin Echo map 94 for $700 (9" display, all coastal charts, down scan, side scan and CHIRP)--just have to watch for "buys. This will not work with radar, but his boat has a JVC radar which still works well...

The reason I like one brand, is that everything interphases well. I have two displays which will show radar if necessary, I have two chart, two sonar displays--just change the plugs, and or split the screens.

The screen are bright enough. No extra cables, power cords etc--all one bundle.

Usually I run the 10" as chart plotter, chart plotter/radar, or radar overlay. (The 10 hz update of the latest GPS allows overlay, without a gyro rated compass, if you so desire). I can run split screens with sounder, CHIRP, or side scan/down scan.

I run the second 7" plotter as the depth sounder/or a second wide scale chart plotter. It is very handy to have detail up close chart, plus, wide view chart plotter. The AIS information is available on the radio or on the Garmin chart plotter, with all of the details.

My backup is Navionics on the I pad. I can also transmit the Garmin screen to the iPad, if I want Marie watching the radar etc, and I am intent on the visual and chart.

If I was to get an AIS transceiver, it would be the Vesper. Their AIS class B Transceivers start at $550 on up! Then you can be seen, as well as see! I would not use an antenna splitter, when a separate antenna can be bought for about half the price of the splitter, and there will be no degradation of the VHF (your safety) signal! A version which works with the I pad is only about $1000.

Pick what is most rugged, easiest to use, and easy to see. For me this is Garmin--Others may feel that their system is best.

In any case, We still use paper charts, and I am currently annotating the book I will be sending to Pat --and he can send on to other C Brats. You find for planing purposes, books and paper charts are still essential....

 

[hardee]

I agree that the Vesper AIS is top quality, and I think also, it is good to be seen by all means. FYI, the Vesper Splitter is powered, so there is actually a signal gain there. On the CDORY, there is precious little average, so antennas (antenni, if you will), take up space that may be needed for other things again depending on your unique applications; radar arch, solar panels, dinghy zone, or crab pots.

The Vesper WatchMate comes with it's own screen, about 7", and has coastal outline which makes finding signal sources very easy.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[hardee]

I've been using CE for three years and about 1700 hours of cruising. It's fast and stable even on cheap hardware, super capable, and easy to use. I have a bunch of cartography installed—NOAA vector and raster (both free), CHS raster, and CMAP. Being able to instantly switch between charts is incredibly useful.

I can't remember the last time I switched the Simrad MFD to a chart display...

If I remember right, the charting availability for the Coastal Explorer is only good in USA waters. Sam, or anyone, correct me if I am wrong, and if it works in Canadian water, how or who, to make it work north of the border.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Will-C]

Harvey,
Coastal Explorer works in Canada. All of our routes from our last trip were done on C.E. I have to doubt that a free program comes with the kind of support Rosepoint supplies. But maybe I'm wrong. C.E. is automatically updated all the time with Active Captain changes, map updates and software updates. We paid $400 dollars seven years ago for the Coastal Explorer software and it was worth every penny IMHO. As for paper charts we seem to do just fine without them. We traveled from Desolation Sound, Gulf Islands the San Juan Islands down to Seattle in six weeks. It was our first time in those waters. Martin provided some good information on points of particular interest!!! We did wear out a Waggoner's Guide on the trip. That book is so awesome. We use a separate antenna on our Vesper Watchmate. I did add our boats name to our AIS system Harvey after a call to Vesper. Checked with others Tinytown shows up on their AIS screens.
Great response from Vesper, almost immediate.
D.D.

 

[20dauntless]

I've been using CE for three years and about 1700 hours of cruising. It's fast and stable even on cheap hardware, super capable, and easy to use. I have a bunch of cartography installed—NOAA vector and raster (both free), CHS raster, and CMAP. Being able to instantly switch between charts is incredibly useful.

I can't remember the last time I switched the Simrad MFD to a chart display...

If I remember right, the charting availability for the Coastal Explorer is only good in USA waters. Sam, or anyone, correct me if I am wrong, and if it works in Canadian water, how or who, to make it work north of the border.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

CE works great in Canada. I use Canadian Hydrographic Service raster charts ($99 from Rose Point, many multiples of that from anyone else) and C-MAP vector charts.

 

[hardee]

Dave and Sam, Thank you for the reply. Dave, I wish we had talked about that somewhere up there, I leare better by seeing and doing rather than reading and fumbling.

I carried my Samsung Tablet this summer instead of a laptop, but rarely used it. Didn't get all the nav ap stuff loaded there before I left. Looks like I need to look up Rose Point. Sounds like a good way to go.

Pat, Thanks for bringing it up.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Pat Anderson]

A free alternate is OpenCpn. This is a free Windoze or Mac program that uses the free NOAA USA charts. This includes all the charts for the Great Loop.

OpenCpn includes GPS, AIS and radar overlay (if you have a Garmin or Lowrance radar.) I have used all the features and they work well

From comparing it with Coastal Explorer, it's the equivalent. Here's the website: opencpn.org/ocpn/.

Boris

Boris, I have OpenCPN on the Mac, just wanted to check it out. It is indeed free and in some ways similar but it is not really equivalent to Coastal Explorer. It also uses the NOAA and USACE free charts of course but its handling of them, especially the chart quilting on zoom in/out, is just not really very good. OpenCPN gets to the edge of a raster chart and you see the edge, not the next chart over! CE on the other hand lets you zoom in/ out and you never know that you are really seeing different charts at different scales as you do this because it all happens so smoothly. To me the commercial product is worth the money!

Here is a screenshot of OpenCPN showing what I mean! This just doesn't happen with Coastal Explorer!

 

[ssobol]

FWIW, Defender has Coastal Explorer on sale at $283.09. You have to put it in your cart to see that price.

Too bad it doesn't work on Android devices...

 

[MikeR]

So I went out and bought a used Toshiba Satellite laptop (very respectable specs, BTW) for $140,

Great thread, I now want to get CE as well! But, my current laptop (only a couple of years old) barely runs anymore on a good day so I would want something different/separate for use on the boat...Pat, if you don't mind my asking, where is a good source for a $140 used laptop?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Pat Anderson]

So I went out and bought a used Toshiba Satellite laptop (very respectable specs, BTW) for $140,

Great thread, I now want to get CE as well! But, my current laptop (only a couple of years old) barely runs anymore on a good day so I would want something different/separate for use on the boat...Pat, if you don't mind my asking, where is a good source for a $140 used laptop?

Thanks,
Mike

Mike, I just searched Bellingham Craigslist for laptops. There were quite a few for sale, but the Craigslist post for this one had the most information that gave me confidence that it would work for my purpose. This computer is from 2012, and the guy I bought it from lived on North Garden near Western. It is a Toshiba Satellite dual core Pentium with 4 GB RAM and a 300 GB hard drive, smallish by today's standards but entirely adequate for what I wanted it for. It had a fresh install of Windows 7, and the first night it automatically installed all the available updates, and then I turned off the WiFi! I have no other software on this computer other than Coastal Explorer, and about 4 GB of NOAA and USACE charts. There were cheaper ones and more expensive ones of course, but you should not have a difficult time finding a suitable used Windows laptop for a reasonable price, they seem to be quite plentiful on Craigslist!

 

[gulfcoast john]

OK Pat, you've convinced me.. I bought it from Defender even though I don't have a suitable PC yet.
But I just don't see 10-$ 12,000 for an awesome nav suite...
$3500 for an almost bleeding edge Garmin 7612 (12 inch daylight viewable waterproof display) with built in CHIRP downVu and SideVu, support for the latest Garmin radar including Fathom...
$808 for a Garmin AIS class B so you just touch the AIS target on the 7612 for the option to 'CALL WITH MMSI' direct bridge to bridge without punching in any numbers at all... (if you have a Garmin VHF 200-up)
$2056 for a Garmin GMR 24 inch radar, $15 for Home Depot parts for a Bob Austin Special Commode Mount (I already bought mine... I hope to get it autographed at Hontoon)...
All from BOEmarine, all plug and play, all Garmin.
Eileen likes Garmin panties and I like Garmin T shirts and Preferred stock.
You can get an awesome Garmin nav suite for less than the cost of your average Total Knee copays and deductibles, and with a better written warranty and a MUCH higher Fun Factor!
Happy Looping!
John

 

[Pat Anderson]

As often there is more than one way to skin a cat--or C Dory. I am also being a bit of a "devil's advocate".

Bob, food for thought for sure, as always!

I am about to order a thin 16" USB real computer monitor and scrap the idea of using the little TV, it works fine (I have it running up in my home office with the laptop lid shut and an HDMI cable to the TV) but the monitor is just a better size and shape. Only time will tell about your concern about whether it is bright enough. I have had my iPad on a RAM mount on a wooden base just behind the center window, and it has always been bright enough, so i think the monitor is likely to be fine too.

BTW, our iPad is an original iPad, first generation, too old to upgrade anything, but it still runs Navionics just fine, and I downloaded all the charts for the Great Loop to it a long time ago back when unlimited chart downloads were free! The iPad is our principal backup but we also have Navionics on two separate iPhones, so I think we are in pretty good shape there! Flint Firestone uses SEAiq Free as his backup, but we don't see any advantage to SEAiq over Navionics.

Your Garmins sound wonderful, but I am not the guy to rip out the entire Raymarine system and replace it with something else as a DIY project! The GPS / depth sounder / radar / VHF all connect to the C-80, and I do not want to replace the radome, GPS antenna and transducer. The Raymarine with our CF cards are all we need for our home cruising grounds of Puget Sound to Alaska, so we were really just looking for a one-time solution for the Great Loop at the lowest possible cost, and CE on a Windows computer seems to be that solution, but of course only time will tell. If all else fails, I am pretty sure we can get around the Loop with Navionics on our iPad and iPhones!

 

[ssobol]

If you look you can find 1st edition iPads for a very good price. My mom recently bought one for $50 so her grandson can play games. It's probably good enough for a nav program.

 

[Pat Anderson]

OK Pat, you've convinced me.. I bought it from Defender even though I don't have a suitable PC yet.
But I just don't see 10-$ 12,000 for an awesome nav suite...
$3500 for an almost bleeding edge Garmin 7612 (12 inch daylight viewable waterproof display) with built in CHIRP downVu and SideVu, support for the latest Garmin radar including Fathom...
$808 for a Garmin AIS class B so you just touch the AIS target on the 7612 for the option to 'CALL WITH MMSI' direct bridge to bridge without punching in any numbers at all... (if you have a Garmin VHF 200-up)
$2056 for a Garmin GMR 24 inch radar, $15 for Home Depot parts for a Bob Austin Special Commode Mount (I already bought mine... I hope to get it autographed at Hontoon)...
All from BOEmarine, all plug and play, all Garmin.
Eileen likes Garmin panties and I like Garmin T shirts and Preferred stock.
You can get an awesome Garmin nav suite for less than the cost of your average Total Knee copays and deductibles, and with a better written warranty and a MUCH higher Fun Factor!
Happy Looping!
John

Great, hope I did not oversell CE, but I don't think so! I may have over estimated the cost of total replacement of the old nav system, maybe, maybe not, since i would need to pay for removal of all the Raymarine stuff from the radome down and installation of Garmin stuff. Your system components are up to $6,264 if my math is correct, and that does not include the cost of removal of old Raymarine system and installation of new Garmin new system. Like I said to Bob, I am just not the guy to do that myself! Add, what, $1,000?, for professional installation? But it really doesn't matter if it is $7,000 or $10,000 to totally replace the Raymarine stuff, it just does not compute for us! We have what we need for West Coast cruising with the Raymarine system, and we are really only looking right now for the least expensive solution for Great Loop cruising, which we cannot do with our Raymarine! CE is what we have placed our bet on!