Repairs and upgrades for Hammerhead

[hardee]

I have not done the foam removal (yet), but if/when I do, I would highly consider putting mats in the bottom to keep stuff off the sole, and allow air circulation or moisture transference without sogging up the bottom of the clothes bag.

Check out these, in variable sizes and can be unlined, so yo can cut to shape.

Vinyl Mesh Entrance Mats are constructed of an extruded vinyl in a random loop pattern.

https://www.americanfloormats.com/vinyl ... ance-mats/

Your Welcome, (original tip from Bob Austin)

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[clayhubler]

Thanks Harvey, those do look like they would work really well.

On another topic, I need to repair the windlass. It is a Powerwinch Sport Fish 450 model. It will not freefall, and it also will not hold any load. I have contacted the manufacturer about sending it to them for repair, but I haven't heard back yet.

Has anybody repaired this model of windlass? Anybody want to speculate what is wrong? I suspect that the brake has failed. I think this model is around $650 new, so I wonder if it is worth the trouble. If the repair is three or four hundred, I'd just as soon replace.

 

[Hunkydory]

We have made several 2 to 3 month cruises in the high condensation area of SE Alaska since removing the v berth foam. The area was totally dry when the insulation was removed & no water added in that space due to condensation during our trips. Now, the v berth sleeping area will definitely condensate & the moisture from it can find its way to the storage area. I added thin somewhat sticky plastic covers over the access points, which helps. I use the forward area to store the spare anchor & chain & the side area for seldom used clothing, bulk food & paper towel rolls & other miscellaneous items. None of these have any special covering with only a small amount of moisture absorption in some of the paper wrapping of canned food stuff. I do pad the bottom of the storage area with closed cell foam lining, buts it’s not for insulation to prevent condensation, but rather padding for rough sea encounters. With cloths storage, I’ve had much more condensation problems in the cabin storage areas then under the v berth. There we have had to be very watchful in order to prevent mildew.

Jay

 

[thataway]

I reviewed the manual for this windlass, and it does not appear to have adjustable clutch as the Lewmar do. The manual shows a "spin off gear kit" and "locking gear kit". I suspect that one of these has been stripped. The "power winch" has been around for 50 years. It started off with just a capstan, no chain gypsy, or clutch etc. It was go/no go, (one direction only) and would be used with the rope rode to pull the anchor up. It was initially an inexpensive item. They have evolved into competing with the other marine windlasses. Their marine windlasses draw less than the competition. That suggests smaller motors, or less pulling power. The prices on their web site are almost $300 more than the product is sold thru some discounters. The company appears to be owned by Carefree RV Awnings (one of the largest awning makers).

I have one of their trailer winches sitting in a box for almost 20 years...I guess I'll have to see if it works sometime..

You have the hole in the deck and mounting for this windlass. So you can either replace it--or go with one of the others which have adjustable clutches. I probably would call the company to see if they do a "rebuild swap" or rebuild yours. It would be interesting to see if this is 17 years old, as the boat is--or if it was put in more recently. (Unless. you want another project and they can send a rebuild kit)

 

[clayhubler]

Jay, thanks for sharing your experience regarding the condensation. Sounds like it shouldn't really be a problem. I will probably use dri-deck to make an air gap and cushion the inside of the hull for anchor, ect... I think the floormats may work better, but I have a bunch of dri-deck from the cabin sole and cockpit that I don't like and will not be putting back in.

Bob, thanks for looking into the windlass. Your suggestion about the locking gear meshes with the initial response I got from the company. Via email:

Sounds like maybe the locking gear has given way. This is what stops the gypsy from paying out line while bringing up the anchor and holding the anchor in the roller.
So we don't have repair service here but I do have service centers across the states you can send it to. Click on the link to view those centers.
http://www.powerwinch.com/powerwinch/co ... on=service
Or if you feel courageous, we can discuss this on the phone and I can let you know how to fix it.

I think I may look into one of the seattle area service centers. As you pointed out, I don't really need more projects right now. I think I will stick with this model, too, because of the mounting holes.

 

[clayhubler]

Alright, I'm starting to look into materials. I have a couple of different composites suppliers here in the vancouver area. I know I am going to go with 1.5" end grain balsa for the coring. Also, I am planning on west system epoxy.

What would you recommend in the way of glass cloth?
And what fillers/ thickeners do you like?

Thanks everybody for the help on this.

 

[Brewkid]

Clay,

I'm curious what the pricing is on the balsa. Carbon balsa is about $500 delivered for 7 sheets. I ordered 1708 10 yards and some CSM(amazon order). I may try some of the West Systems Episize just to play around, but the price is likely not worth it....

R/
John
Scallywag

 

[thataway]

I have mostly worked with West Systems--more expensive, but I have used it for many years and am comfortable with it.

1708 and eposy compatable mat--be sure the binder is OK with epoxy.

This is an article on mat and epoxy/

If you feel a need for mat, check with these folks
I might also get some 4" E-glass Biaxial (+/-45) Fiberglass cloth tape with 3/4 oz mat backing if you are going to have to tab back in structure. The one width cloth could be cut if necessary, or use epoxy comparable mat with it...just depends on how you are putting back in furniture.
Here is a cheat sheet on the various West System fillers. I use mostly Cabosil, 404 and 410 is what I keep in the shop, using a blend as necessary.

 

[clayhubler]

John, are you going to use the carbon-core? I am going to use straight up end grain, just like the original.

Bob, thanks for the recommendations for the materials. I'm going to try and finish all cutting this weekend so I know quantities and can order on monday. I will let everybody know what the prices are.

I have looked around at a lot of the various threads on core damage and it seems initially everybody, even myself, is quick to look for other core materials to avoid putting wood back into the boat. But I have been convinced through research and by recommendations from c-brats that balsa is a good core material. I have been reading the west system fiberglass boat repair manual in my spare time. Spare time is a relative term. Anyway here is the link:
https://www.westsystem.com/wp-content/u ... l-2015.pdf
In the section on gelcoat blisters, which I originally only skimmed over because it doesn't apply to me, I found this about polyester resins on page 59:

The term permeability refers to the ability of a material to permit a substance to pass
through it. Polyester laminating resins and gelcoats are not waterproof; they are permeable
and will allow water to migrate through the cured resins at a consistent, predictable rate.
The permeability of a polymer matrix involves a number of factors.
The thickness of the gelcoat layer, the amount of air or voids in the laminate and the
temperature of the laminate affect how much water can permeate the laminate. The
warmer the ambient temperature, the higher the rate of permeation (Figure 9-1). An
increase in temperature will boost the rate of permeation through a resin matrix by
intensifying the molecular motion of both the polyester and the water. This means boats
in the Caribbean are more likely to have problems than those in Lake Superior.

Most production boats are made with polyester, and I assume the c-dory is no different? I'm not really concerned about my boat, because it does sit on a trailer, but wouldn't the above statement make balsa a poor choice for larger boats that spend all their time in the water? In fact it sounds to me like having any boat with a cored hull of any material would be a bad idea. If the gelcoat and resin is not truly waterproof, what is keeping the water out of the core? Only wax and/ or bottom paint? Seems like that is putting too much confidence in owner maintenance. What are your guys thoughts on this?

 

[clayhubler]

Okay, now for the progress report. More bad news...

I decided I want to get all my cutting done, so I started out trimming around the cockpit edges where I had not gone all the way to the outside hull yet.

And I wanted to get the sump out, after I learned that it is cored underneath. I think it is 1/2 inch core. And yep, it was really wet and rotten under there.

Worst of all though was what I found at the back, between the hull and transom. I was worried about this. I found that the manufacturer butted up the hull core to the transom core. So the wet hull has infected the bottom of the transom. It looks like I will have to cut out several inches from the bottom of the transom all the way across. Then I will probably drill some holes in the inside skin of the transom and point my big heater at it and dry it out. I don't think I am going to drill as many holes as I did in the cabin sole, it seems to be drying easily in there. Here is the bottom edge:

Also, I am not putting all my images in the posts, there are more photos in my album.

 

[thataway]

The water does not "leak" thru the laminates. I have seen a couple of boats where there was actually enough damage form osmosis to scrap the boat. I saw one high end yacht go form XXXXXX before survey go to XX after survey. This boat was in the Med.

I have owned boats with blistering/osmosis. But it is extremely rare. in the C Dory line. In Europe it was mostly boats laminated in the Baltic and brought to the warmer waters in the Med. Most of the cases I have followed were in S. Cal. and the boat laminated in S. Cal.

One of the worse cases of Blistering and core wetness was in a Kadey Krogen 42. It took almost 2 years to dry her foam core. Eventually the bottom was peeled about 1/4", then new layers of E glass and epoxy brought back that 1/4". The hull has been dry for over 10 years. I have seen boats which had no blistering--then 25 to 30 years old was sandblasted to remove bottom paint and the gel coat--when no epoxy coating-massive blistering.

This is why I always put an epoxy barrier coat on before painting the bottom, even if the boat is going to be mostly trailered. The Taiwan Built sailboat we took from Ca to Europe and back, had no blistering when we hauled out at about 4 years of age. We were in a yard with good compressed air and water. It only had pigmented laminating resin--no gel coat below the water, and no epoxy. We sanded the entire bottom, removing bottom paint, and then put on about 30 mils of epoxy. We lost track of the boat for over 30 years, but I did talk to the owner in about 2005, and no osmosis.

 

[clayhubler]

Dr. Bob, I'm going to sand the bottom of my boat and reapply bottom paint before it goes back on the trailer. Would an epoxy barrier coat be a good idea for the c-dory? I keep it on the trailer, but I do foresee the boat being in the water for up to a month at a time.
Thanks

 

[thataway]

A boat which already. has bottom paint is difficult to get rid of all of the paint. If the boat has not had bottom paint previously, then I would put the barrier coat of epoxy before the bottom paint.

Many use two colors of bottom paint, so that when the outer layer wears off, you know it is time to repaint. It also assures full coverage of the second coat.

 

[clayhubler]

Did some more cutting in the cockpit and did not yet find the end of the rot on the port side.

Also, got the rest of the foam out from under the v-berth and cut a circle for the 6 inch inspection hatch. There was a little standing water in the aft part of the compartment.

Then I set up the big heater to try to dry the core under the portapotti. I don't know if it will dry without drilling holes in it to let the moisture out, we'll see.

There was an area of sole under the galley that had really dark shavings when I drilled the holes, so I cut a small sample out to take a look. It is worse than I thought it would be and I can see a little delamination between the bottom skin and the balsa. I will need to cut out some more.

I'm starting to think that I may need to cut out the entire core...

Also, I used the moisture meter to check the forward deck coring and found one of my bow rail penetrations is leaking, but it isn't bad yet. I pulled the bow rail and all the other deck hardware up front so I could properly bed all the hardware. The factory didn't seal any of the core when they build the boat, and whoever put the windlass on didn't either. Luckily it doesn't appear to have leaked.

 

[thataway]

Remember when you are next to metal that the moisture meter may read higher. I did some experiments quickly in. the house, and the amount was not great. I may try some larger metal objects to see what that meter will do.

The factory does not seal any part of the core. Unfortunately 90% of all boat builders do not seal the core. When I got my Cal 46, she was 18 years old, and for 10 years had been in charter service in the Caribbean. I pulled every deck penetration and sealed them. Fortunately no significant core issues.

When we were doing the studies on the hurricane damaged boats, we found some 30 year old sailboats which had been in Fl their entire life, and no issues with core. However, many sailboat builders, and larger yacht builders, put solid glass or solid wood or plywood, where they put high stress fittings, such as cleats or winches.

 

[clayhubler]

That is a good point about the metal, but in this case the reading is correct. The other bow rail penetrations were not leaking. This has also been confirmed when I overdrilled and reamed out the core. Here is a different flange:

 

[clayhubler]

I decided to remove all fittings and wiring that remained in the boat. I started with the rub rail; it had already started coming off in the back on the starboard side:

I also pulled the lazarette hatches. More bad news:

And where the downrigger pads and fuel fills were:

And also a flush mount rod holder:

The gunnel has me a little worried. I don't see how I will be able to get the rotten core out of there. Maybe I will get lucky and the rot will not go very far, and I will somehow be able to dry the remaining core. I am not going to put the flush mount rod holders back in, and I don't believe I will be able to make an acceptable patch over that hole with the non skid there. The best thing I can think of is to grind the nonskid off, and then maybe put a piece of aluminum diamond plate on the top of the gunnel there in its place. Might look kind of cool. Not sure.
Maybe replacing that core from underneath might not be as hard as I think. But then I still need to patch the nonskid...

Luckily the coring in the gunnel has a break at the bulkhead, and everything in front of the cabin is bone dry except that one bow rail penetration which was not really that bad.

 

[clayhubler]

On a positive note, the cabin sole does appear to be drying out. I do still need to enlarge the area I cut out in there, but I now think that I might be okay inside with just the area under the galley needing replaced.

Here are some pics of the meter and the original readings are written on the floor. I did some experimenting with the meter, and it doesn't seem to matter if the floor is hot or cold. In this case though, I hadn't run the heater for a few days. I wanted to give any moisture in there time to 'settle'.

 

[Brewkid]

Clay,

Check out this video on making your own non skid. https://youtu.be/UpsRljqBH0o

R/
John
Scallywag

 

[san juanderer]

ClayHubler, Sorry to see what you are experiencing. I have done the rebuild you are experiencing I think five times. In the end you will have personal satisfaction that the boat was rebuilt better than the factory. It is very sad that the factories have a out of sight - out of mind attitude. The chain locker fitting is so typical, I have seen it everytime ! The only saving grace is, most boats have these failures yet do not have a total failure. In one of your pics it is clearly seen that the kerf is open on the down side, this is typical as the binding fabric is on the topside. Once that water gets in there, it travels through those kerf channels. Even the high end boats have issues. In the end you will have satisfaction that you have sealed it all up better than the factory. Then enjoy your lovely boat.