Re-Power

DodgeRam":2emtz8c1 said:
Is it me alone or I scent some of our members seem to be offended about replies that we all do when question are ask. Some of you seem to be very well inform and very talented to express them self . Personally I feel intimidated at time to sit in front of this screen and try to put some of my ideas , toughs, and experiences with all aspect of boating. If you look at my tread trying to answer our friends questions I did not even mention the type of engines, my boat could had been rigged with Honda , Yamy, Suzy, E-TEC, Merc, as the are all very good engines! My dealer sells Yamy, that is what is on my boat. I have twins for me it is a first ,( Thanks to El and Bill ) . Hunky Dory ask all of us a question , we should all try are best to help him on this difficult decision he will have to make. In they end he will be very happy regardless of what kind of engine , how many. SEARAM the Dodge man!
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Wow Gary, I just read back over this thread from the start and I must confess, I don't see what you mean... :crook There have been lots of posts about twins, etc with lots of info and I never saw anyone NOT trying to help. I don't think any of us are hard over on twins vs. singles, we know it's a matter of personal choice... Personally, I gots twins :lol: and a Dodge Ram with a monster V-10 in it that'll pass anything but a gas station!! :smileo

Charlie
 
The single vs twin is probably one of the costliest decisions after deciding on a boat. For me, the ONLY reason is safety and redundancy but at a costly price compared to a single and a kicker.

So, let's say money is not the primary concern, yaw in a following sea is not a primary concern (I've experienced this in larger boats - doesn't bother me), and I've read limping home on a single engine propped wrong isn't all THAT much faster than using the kicker; I would like to ask this (maybe a poll?):

How many people with twins have had an engine failure and limped home on one?

How many people have hit a rock taking out both props (gaa! hopefully not in deception pass!)

How many people in either backup scenario were concered their kicker or 2nd motor would not overcome the wind/current to get their butts out of "an issue" ?

Money is money.. my Wife, my Dog, myself are not. If I find a larger poll of people who say their 2nd motor saved their bacon over those on a kicker sweating out a current, those stats make up my mind.
 
This is a many-sided coin!

Afraid a poll would not make any difference. I've lost both engines on a rock - and both engines when one threw a log into the other one... and also come back from Ucleulet with a broken outdrive on a Honda 9.9 kicker (27 continuous hours of running in the fog). I know El and Bill have limped back on one of their twins-- but could probably have also limped back on a kicker..

Going through Deception (my home waters) with just a kicker is no problem -- just don't do it at full current. At least half the boats that fish the hole under Deception Pass Bridge are small singles -- they run back and forth all the time.

The costs are almost a push -- single 75 or 90 and kicker vs a pair of 40 or 50s. Even the weight is close. Redundancy is not a factor, because a kicker on the transom, using it's own fuel supply, is just as likely to get you back home as one of the twins. Bad fuel will usually take out both twins...

So back to the coin, eh? My personal choice? Love them both. For some folks the added maneuverability with twins around a dock is a huge plus. With the vectored thrust of a single I've had no problems.

My part of the poll! Either will do a great job IF they are properly maintained. The twin guys will say twin, and the single/kicker guys will say single/kicker. Both will be right!

HTH but know it doesn't!

Dusty
 
I have twin Honda 40s. I do use my boat in quite a few questionable depth areas (sloughs, backwaters and side channels). If I'm ever in less than 5-6 feet I use one engine (in gear) only due to sudden depth changes or deadheads/snags. I have never had engine failure but I have hit rocks (the Meldrum Bar, for you Willamette River folks) while using both engines and limped home on one (the one with the lesser prop damage). Using two engines can trim the boat if it is heavy to one side but so can shifting the weight manually.
 
Those are additional points to be considered. I was full bore twin until Les said "well what happens when you run over a log and take out both your props?" Hum...debris in the sound is a concern. On the 25 we plan to get, I will probably go with a single/kicker. Money is a concern, and maybe slightly better mileage on a single. Up in the 150hp range, a 2nd motor is quite a bit more than a kicker. Though I wish I could get a 25 or 30hp kicker with a long shaft (haven't seen them).
 
I don't think you need a long shaft for a kicker. A standard 20'' shaft should work. As for a larger HP motor used as a kicker next to the main. Check the clearances before you buy it! My little 9.9 just barley clears what it needs to as is. Some guys use brackets to solve the clearance issues. I see guys happily putzing around in a 27' sail boats being powered by a dinky 9.9 . They work....

Chris Bulovsky
Washburn Wi
 
My dealer is supposed to be a 5 star dealer, the C-Dory he sold me was the first he ever saw, he wanted me to get a 70hp on my 22', go figure that one out? With no offence to any of the readers, a Sales man is A Sales man. If we buy anything by listening to them, , without doing some serious research, you will get in trouble soon or later. When I decide to buy anything, I read about it , I read some more about it , some times for months , even years before I buy , it works for 90% of the time. The other 10% went wrong because I took their advice! But than again I was in my early 20s. So Hunky Dory do your homework, listen to your heart and I an sure you will make the right decision and be happy with it.
Remember, that some engines between a 40 and a 50 are not necessarily the same block, some will 3 cylinders on a 40 and 4 on a 50. So do all your reading. SEARAM----THE CUMMINS GUY!
 
As far as reliability... isn't (single + a kicker) really a twin? OK not identical twins but still two engines as far as maintenance. If I had a single + kicker and the kicker wouldn't start, I'd probably re-consider some cruising plans. Ditto if one of the twins won't run. However, with twins, I'm certain I would start them both before leaving the dock where with a single + kicker, the kicker might not get run before I need it. Bottom line, if you're worried about redundancy, it's probably a good idea to run the kicker prior to leaving the dock.
 
dogon dory":351jiwpf said:
...as a reliability professional it is a simple decision.
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No such thing as a simple decision in your profession. If there was, your profession wouldn't exist.

Now then, I would think you of all folks would prefer twins simply so you can quit beating yourself up about which prop to use - run 'em both.

I don't recall who said it, but I think the best analogy for the single vs. twins debate is "Ginger or MaryAnn?".
 
TyBoo":2912ukpw said:
. I have watched B~C motor his twin 40s around quite a bit, and he seems to be all over the place and not just pulling to the right.
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.... too funny!! good one :thup
funy.gif
 
Now you're talkin my language. I'd go with a Mary Ann, (single) less maintanance and I'm sure way more dependable and trustworthy than a Ginger.
Jimbo
 
Lol yeah a tow is always an option. My discussion is around avoiding that. With my luck I won't ever need a tow in a nice calm bay with no traffic 30 minutes from help. Didn't mean to stir up the debate yet again. I equally see both sides. It sounds as if they both really are equally reliable, preference and taste aside.
 
This has been a fun topic.

To DodgeRam: It took me 4 years to decide on my C-Dory. From one dealer, boat show to another. I made the right decision with my C-Dory.

You all have given me some really great input. I appreciate it very much. Now I have to convince my wife we need to re-power. I can work on that. The safety of family and friends is more important then a few bucks.

Thanks to all for your advice.

Dick
 
rcwass. Your on the right track. The safety angle works great! It's justified many purchases such as the radar, auto pilot, dual axle trailer with disk brakes, dinghy and windlass. I'm stuggling though to come up with a reason to purchase some canvas. Hypothermia potential during winter time fishing excursions might work :roll:
 
Oh, such a fun topic -- like the riflemen debating a 30-06 or a .270. For the record, our Honda 40 twins allowed us to continue cruising this summer when one died (of old age) on the Chesapeake. We ordered two new engines, but found it would be a three month wait due to lack of importing enough Hondas (or a law suit, or something or other) -- but with our other twin, we headed to the Erie Canal and had a delightful summer cruising the canals on our single 40 -- with an imposed speed limit for the canal, there would have been no advantage (except in a few higher speed areas) with the two engines, so we cruised merrily on using the good twin. When we had the old engines replaced, we headed across Lake Ontario to Canada.
There have been a few other times when having twins was indeed a help (although a good kicker would probably have achieved the same result, but somewhat slower) -- like when we nipped a log with one prop in the Canadian part of the Columbia River.
But, like Dusty says, its a matter of personal choice. Cruising our twins with another 22' with a larger single, our fuel consumption is within .0000012 of each other (our cost to maintain is higher), cost of purchase was less, weight on the stern about the same -- a coin flipper.
 
El and BILL are right, my 2- 50hp cost me less money than same hp with a single.
Maintenance is the same,
4 plugs each 50
2.1 qt of oil each 50
231lb each
boat is well balance with twins
price of purchase is less than single plus kicker, plus bracket, remote control alone for a kicker can cost any where from $3000 to $4000
One single plus kicker need 6 plugs
4.8 qt of oil on a 90, 1.1 qt oil on kicker, kicker weight about 100lb.


SEARAM
 
Wow, lots of great reasons on both sides. :thup It really does just boil down to what works for you, and what appeals to you. After all, that is what makes these boats so great, the fact that you can customize them and set them up to suit your preferences! Both ways are great ways to go. I too think twins look really cool, and if I was mostly a cruiser, I would probably go that route. Since I fish alot. I prefer a single/ kicker configuration. I think it's nice to put all those hours on a little 2000-2500 dollar motor than on one that costs twice as much. I usually troll for 5-8 hours each day I fish, and my kicker logs way more hours than my main. As I start to cruise more I'm sure the balance will shift a little but still my kicker will take the brunt of my time, and is less $ to replace than a 40 or 50. Plus I grew up fishing with kicker's so it seems natural to me. As far as contols for the kicker I have always steered from the back at the kicker when fishing since you are then close to the rods, but I do plan on getting an EZ steer and a troll master, which has its limitaions, but will be less than $1000 bucks, and will fit my needs overall. The troll master won't change you from forward to reverse, I believe it only controls the RPM's but for trolling hitting reverse isn't that important( for me). As I tend to go in a line for sometime then pickup and run back to the starting point. Again it's all a matter of preference, either way you go at least it will be in a Cdory! :wink:

Sark
 
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