Ranger, C-Cory 25, and TomCat 255 Comparisons

D

drjohn71a

New member
Sailed Away.... Lots of questions there....

Well, as for running a cabin heater off the hot water from an engine, that would require some type of inboard engine with a closed cooling system and a "radiator" bathed in seawater coming from holes in the hull. The Ranger 25 has an inboard diesel whose coolant stream can be piped up to a cabin heater. You'd have to be running the engine all the time for the heater to operate all the time.

The R25, CD25, and TC255 all have Wallas diesel stove/heater options. The Wallas can sometimes be finicky, but most of the time, it provides great, reliable, cheap, relatively quiet, low amp draw heat. i.e., you can use it at anchor with few problems if your house batteries are OK, but best to start it when the engines are on to get the most robust starter action.

The R25 and the TC255 are near the same weight, I think... others may know more about that here. Although quite impressive high on it's trailer, the TomCat tows very easily with great stability and control using a 3/4 ton truck of any of the major brands. The CD25 is a bit lighter, and sits lower on the trailer than the other two. It is easy to tow also, as is the Ranger 25 per some owners. All three could use a 3/4 ton pickup though.

When it comes to running at higher speeds, teens and above, in a chop, the CD25 is reported to pound less than it's smaller cousin, the CD22. The CD25 runs best with a 150 hp outboard, the TomCat (a power catamaran with two hulls) runs best with two 150 hp outboards.

The cabins of the CD25 and the TomCat are similar in layout and size except that the TomCat's cabin floor is even with the cockpit floor, the TomCat's front bunk is gigantic, and there is much more under the floor storage in a TomCat. The TomCat's aft cockpit is much larger than the R25 or CD25 due in large part to the Armstrong brackets, swim step, outboard mounts.

The sea action is more like a displacement sailboat in an R25, a bit less in a CD25, and the TomCat is rock solid stable like a catamaran sailboat. The TomCat's forte is traveling 22-33 knots in 2-4 foot seas - it runs smoother at those speeds in rough water than at slower speeds.

All three boats can be operated economically at hull speeds... 5-8 mph or so.

Diesel fuel is hard to get in most inland and MidWestern state lakes, but diesel engines require less maintenance than gas engines in general, but the Honda engines have lasted as long as diesels in many applications.

Winterwise - I've had inboard engines in many of my boats. Messing with the bilge is a constant headache whether diesel or gas. You can get air cooled generators to run with the outboard engines, so no conflict in that area. When freezing hits, if you use your boat in the winter, you just tip the outboards up, maybe spray the plug hole, and that is it... no running antifreeze all through all the accessories needed. If you're in the water, just tip the engine up and you're done.

However, even if you're in the water, you cannot leave an inboard engine without some kind of heat going to all the engine coolant and exhaust coolant areas, or it will freeze and damage the engine. Same problem if you take the boat out of the water and plan on trailering it in freezing weather. You would have to install antifreeze pretty close to the ramp to stop freezing damage.

Also, if a major engine problem, swapping an outboard is not much problem...

Two engines... today's engines are extremely reliable, but sometimes, when a storm picks up, the trash/water in the fuel will jump up and get into an engine at the worst possible time. How nice to have TWO engines and TWO fuel tanks, and TWO fuel filters!!!!!

Two engines on a TomCat are very widely spaced and you can actually steer the TomCat with the engines straight, by placing one of the other in gear. You can spin the TomCat on a quarter... not quite a dime... very easily. The handling is extremely easily controlled.

The TomCat gives the helmsman a feeling of ultimate control - like running on railroad tracks... very addictive! The CD 25 is lighter and a bit more economical, pretty close. The R25 is so beautiful!!!, but can't go very fast... and you've got to manage that bilge continuosly.... AARRRGGHHH... I hope to be done forever with bilge management... I like 'em all, but love the TomCat.

John
 
As always, Dr. John gives an excellent analysis

One place where I might disagree slightly with Dr John is the use of a 3/4 ton truck for the TC or Ranger 24. You are looking at close to 10,000 lbs on the trailer in both of these--and I think that you will be better served with a 1 ton or larger truck. I find that towing my Tom Cat--my Ford Excursion (somewhere between a 3/4 and one ton diesel) is really working hard--towing the CD 25 it is loafing along.

A more realistic comparison is from Edmond's capacity comparison:
"Simply put, the Towing Capacity is the GCWR minus the curb weight of the truck and minus the weight of everything in the truck — driver, passengers, dog, cargo, etc. Maximum Towing Capacity, the number manufacturers publish and advertise, is importantly different. That number is typically equal to GCWR minus the manufacturer's Base Curb Weight, minus a 150-pound driver."

Also many trucks require a weight equalizing hitch when you get to a certain weight--and this may mean specialized electrical over hyraulic brakes. (Although the "Equalizer brand allows use of surge brakes) The towing capacity is dependant on the rear end ratio, and auxillary towing package--including increased transmission cooling.

If I was going to be towing the Tom Cat long distances, I would want at least a dually one ton. There are some mighty nice 450's and 550's which would be tempting.
 
Thanks for the reference, Dr. Bob.

I've towed my TomCat several thousand miles with my Ford 250 SuperDuty. Acceleration and top speed are very good, except in mountains or steep hills.

The Ford 250 SuperDuty has a towing capacity of 13,500 pounds and I'm guessing my weight added, truck and boat, to be 11,000 to 11,500 pounds. While that for certain is nudging the maximum load for the truck, I've had no handling problems so far.

Pushing that setup on steep hills and high speeds led to my blowing a Turbo Charger Controller at 95,000 miles, but it was under warranty.

While I do concur that a 350,450 or larger would more easily tow the boat, the fact is that the 250 has had no significant performance nor handling problems for almost a year now.

I have had dually one ton trucks and I caution anyone considering a dually to be aware that, when not loaded, those dually tires have almost no traction at all and are very dangerous in icy, snowy, rainy, muddy, slick conditions since it is so far from the engine weight to the rear axle in crew cab versions. I have been stuck in wildlife areas on roads of simple sandy dust in a dually, had to be towed dozens of times on hunting and vacation trips, farm errands, etc.. If you are ONLY using the one ton dually when heavily loaded, there is not much problem in this area.

For me, who rarely tows the TomCat, I'd rather have a more economical 250 setup than to drive a 350, 450, or 550 empty 95% of the time. Dr. Bob's needs are different since he is towing across the continent and up and down the East Coast, so the larger tow vehicle would be best for frequent or long distance towing.

John
 
Having been Factory Certified in GMC, Chevrolet and Dodge Trucks over my 15 inglorious years in the "car business" the first thing that you learn in "load rating" a truck is that the trailer weight is ALWAYS limited by the weakest link in the drivetrain/suspension. The weakest link is generally BRAKES!!! It's not what you can load in the bed or on the hitch or what you can get moving that limits you, it's what you can STOP in an emergency if your trailer brakes fail. My 2007 Chevy 2500 crew cab (single axle) is rated by the factory at 16,000 lbs. with a gooseneck and 13,200 using the hitch. This tells be that the weakest link in this case is the bolts that connect the receiver hitch to the frame.

I towed a TC255 from Wefing's to Austin, TX last year with my 2006 (totaled in April at the Pensacola Show). It never wheezed whether passing someone at 75 mph or in the hills of east Texas.

I agree with Dr. John that dually trucks are best when you're spending the majority of your time pulling a gooseneck trailer. The dual tires provide better lateral stability in crosswinds and tend to support the extra tongue weight better. For pulling a hitch mount with less than 1000 lbs of tongue weight single rear wheels are better.

Just my opinion based on years of training and sales experience.

Charlie
 
drjohn71a":2iiypirw said:
Sailed Away.... Lots of questions there....

Well, as for running a cabin heater off the hot water from an engine, that would require some type of inboard engine with a closed cooling system and a "radiator" bathed in seawater coming from holes in the hull. The Ranger 25 has an inboard diesel whose coolant stream can be piped up to a cabin heater. You'd have to be running the engine all the time for the heater to operate all the time.

The R25, CD25, and TC255 all have Wallas diesel stove/heater options. The Wallas can sometimes be finicky, but most of the time, it provides great, reliable, cheap, relatively quiet, low amp draw heat. i.e., you can use it at anchor with few problems if your house batteries are OK, but best to start it when the engines are on to get the most robust starter action.

The R25 and the TC255 are near the same weight, I think... others may know more about that here. Although quite impressive high on it's trailer, the TomCat tows very easily with great stability and control using a 3/4 ton truck of any of the major brands. The CD25 is a bit lighter, and sits lower on the trailer than the other two. It is easy to tow also, as is the Ranger 25 per some owners. All three could use a 3/4 ton pickup though.

When it comes to running at higher speeds, teens and above, in a chop, the CD25 is reported to pound less than it's smaller cousin, the CD22. The CD25 runs best with a 150 hp outboard, the TomCat (a power catamaran with two hulls) runs best with two 150 hp outboards.

The cabins of the CD25 and the TomCat are similar in layout and size except that the TomCat's cabin floor is even with the cockpit floor, the TomCat's front bunk is gigantic, and there is much more under the floor storage in a TomCat. The TomCat's aft cockpit is much larger than the R25 or CD25 due in large part to the Armstrong brackets, swim step, outboard mounts.

The sea action is more like a displacement sailboat in an R25, a bit less in a CD25, and the TomCat is rock solid stable like a catamaran sailboat. The TomCat's forte is traveling 22-33 knots in 2-4 foot seas - it runs smoother at those speeds in rough water than at slower speeds.

All three boats can be operated economically at hull speeds... 5-8 mph or so.

Diesel fuel is hard to get in most inland and MidWestern state lakes, but diesel engines require less maintenance than gas engines in general, but the Honda engines have lasted as long as diesels in many applications.

Winterwise - I've had inboard engines in many of my boats. Messing with the bilge is a constant headache whether diesel or gas. You can get air cooled generators to run with the outboard engines, so no conflict in that area. When freezing hits, if you use your boat in the winter, you just tip the outboards up, maybe spray the plug hole, and that is it... no running antifreeze all through all the accessories needed. If you're in the water, just tip the engine up and you're done.

However, even if you're in the water, you cannot leave an inboard engine without some kind of heat going to all the engine coolant and exhaust coolant areas, or it will freeze and damage the engine. Same problem if you take the boat out of the water and plan on trailering it in freezing weather. You would have to install antifreeze pretty close to the ramp to stop freezing damage.

Also, if a major engine problem, swapping an outboard is not much problem...

Two engines... today's engines are extremely reliable, but sometimes, when a storm picks up, the trash/water in the fuel will jump up and get into an engine at the worst possible time. How nice to have TWO engines and TWO fuel tanks, and TWO fuel filters!!!!!

Two engines on a TomCat are very widely spaced and you can actually steer the TomCat with the engines straight, by placing one of the other in gear. You can spin the TomCat on a quarter... not quite a dime... very easily. The handling is extremely easily controlled.

The TomCat gives the helmsman a feeling of ultimate control - like running on railroad tracks... very addictive! The CD 25 is lighter and a bit more economical, pretty close. The R25 is so beautiful!!!, but can't go very fast... and you've got to manage that bilge continuosly.... AARRRGGHHH... I hope to be done forever with bilge management... I like 'em all, but love the TomCat.

John
Click to expand...
John, You mentioned the Tomcat 255 runs best on 2 150's is there a reason you chose 150's over 175's?
 
JL,

You may not have noticed that the last post on this thread is from Oct 2007. I believe the TC255 (descendant of the TC 24, which had the same hull but was much lighter with no engine bracket and 135HP was often thought to be optimal power).

After much experience with the new in 2007 TC255, twin 150HP outboards were widely considered to be optimal power, until the factory approved twin 175HP motors, but only if they were 4 cylinder, not 6 (as I recall, and I don’t recall the ballpark year that might have been but Dr Bob will).

I suspect most if not all current crop TC255’s come with Suzuki or other 4 cyl 175’s. I believe Dr. Bob bought one of the first TC255’s with Suzuki 150’s. He worked with Marc Grove at Wefing’s to optimize the Float-On trailer. (I upgraded to an exact copy Float-On trailer in 2015 with EOH brakes and a spare hub on the spare tire, and it made a huge improvement to our trailering experiences)!

If I were looking to re-power (and I am not) I might choose Suzuki 175’s. On the other hand, I always say you shouldn’t choose any outboard motor company that doesn’t also make very good piccolo’s and two channel stereo electronics.

I hope Bob will share his more accurate historical notes on this history.

Cheers!
John
 
If I were buying again today, I probably would go with the 175's--the 150, the 175 and the 4 cal 200s are all on the same block, and will have about the same low end torque.

With Suzuki's higher gear ration, they spin a larger prop and a higher pitch. I believe I was running 21.5 pitch props. The 175 and 200 will give a little more power at the high end. So instead of 46 mph in loaded state you might hit 50 mph. Definitely the boats with the Suzuki are faster.

I first sea trialed a Tom Cat 255 with a lot of weight in the stern and 150 Hondas. (This boat was "Dive Cat" and had a dive compressor, where the live well, seat/battery compartment is in many boats. Also there were 5 or so dive tanks aboard--as well as four people. We got in the 30's at WOT, and I was really not happy with the trim (but the owner had micro commander controls, without trim control on the throttle,. He set the trim with a rocker switch so I could not try different trims.

I then sea trialed a Tom Cat 255 with 150 Suzuki and it was lighter, with only factory options, probably half a tank of fuel and 3 people. It ran very well in chop, and we were keeping right up with a Regulator 26, and I had the impression we had a better ride than the Regulator (very deep V center console).

As far as the 24's My neighbor had 115 Yamahas on his. I believe that James on Moly Brown recently repowered. The 115 Honda and the 130 Hondas were the same block, so it is entirely possible that there were some powered with 130 Honda. I was not aware of any of the original Tom Cat 24's being powered with the Honda 135 or 150.
 
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