Raising Wallas stove.

[mgarr682]

The photo below shows the current location of the Wallas single burner stove/heater in my 22 Angler. I am considering putting a cabinet to be used as a built in tackle box with two or three drawers where the stove is located currently and placing the stove in the top of the cabinet. This would raise the stove to a point an inch or two below the level of the window.



After reviewing the installation directions from Wallas and looking at the actual installation it seems as if it would be a straightforward operation. To those of you who have installed or moved a Wallas stove, do you see any issues with my thoughts on moving it?

The current location has the stove mounted to the fiberglass (approx 1/4" thick, non-cored) box that the helm seat is mounted on. The install instructions make no mention of the mounting surface materials in regard to combustibility so I'm thinking that plywood would be an acceptable mounting surface. While running the stove in heater mode and using the old fashioned index finger heat sensor I can't seem to feel any high amount of heat in the current fiberglass mounting areas adjacent to the heater. Is the counter top in the Cruiser model plywood?

Does that sound like a reasonable plan or have I missed some major issue?

 

[Sunbeam]

The current location has the stove mounted to the fiberglass (approx 1/4" thick, non-cored) box that the helm seat is mounted on. The install instructions make no mention of the mounting surface materials in regard to combustibility so I'm thinking that plywood would be an acceptable mounting surface.

Just as a data point: Pre-around-2006, the 22 Cruisers (and maybe others) had an interior made of 3/4" plywood. This includes the galley counter where the Wallas is mounted. I removed the Wallas from my boat (to send it to Scan for an inspection/tune-up), and there was no special shielding of the plywood, nor was there "extra" clearance between the stove and the wood. In fact, the cut out was tight enough that I had to remove a screw from one side of the stove to get it to fit through the cutout during removal. There is a small strip of metal angle along the outboard (rear of stove) edge of the counter, although I didn't check to see what it was there for (have seen it on other Wallas installs as well). It doesn't even cover the full depth (thickness) of the wood though as it's just on the top edge. My guess would be it's not for heat shielding. My stove is the two-burner 95 diesel/heat/cook model.

Sunbeam :hot

 

[Grumpy]

You might need to check if the Wallas can actually draw fuel from the tank up to the new height. It's been a while since I had one of these so I don't know what the max figure is.
I do know that if you ever get air in the supply line it might take you a certain number of "tries" to get it started again which can be a tad frustating if you dont know about it.

M

 

[Sunbeam]

I would guess the new height wouldn't be any higher than the galley counter in a 22 Cruiser; of course the fuel bottle height can also be adjusted. I remember they specified a minimum drop to the fuel tank, but don't remember what they said about maximum (because on my 22 installation it's more about assuring the minimum than a concern about a maximum).

I don't know if you have them or not, but this page has installation instructions and diagrams for all the various Wallas models (one of the languages is English).

http://www.wallas.fi/default.asp?id=boat-heater-usage

Sunbeam

 

[mgarr682]

Just as a data point: Pre-around-2006, the 22 Cruisers (and maybe others) had an interior made of 3/4" plywood. This includes the galley counter where the Wallas is mounted.

Sunbeam :hot

Thanks, that's what I was thinking regarding the counter top. Plywood seems a popular material for boat interiors so I was thinking Wallas would have said something in their install material if there was a problem with it.

 

[mgarr682]

You might need to check if the Wallas can actually draw fuel from the tank up to the new height. It's been a while since I had one of these so I don't know what the max figure is.
I do know that if you ever get air in the supply line it might take you a certain number of "tries" to get it started again which can be a tad frustating if you dont know about it.

M

A good point. The installation documentation says the Wallas is calibrated for a "delivery height" of 0.5m to 1m. I think what I have in mind is within that range but I'll measure to be certain.

 

[mgarr682]

I don't know if you have them or not, but this page has installation instructions and diagrams for all the various Wallas models (one of the languages is English).

http://www.wallas.fi/default.asp?id=boat-heater-usage

Sunbeam

Yes, those install instructions are what I've been looking at, although I guess I should compare them to the printed material that came with it to be sure there have been no changes.

Now, if I can find a suitable coffee percolator to use on the Wallas each morning I really will be in business. Instant just doesn't cut it.

 

[Sunbeam]

The installation documentation says the Wallas is calibrated for a "delivery height" of 0.5m to 1m. I think what I have in mind is within that range but I'll measure to be certain.

And too (which I'm sure you have probably thought of), the fuel bottle could always be raised, if that facilitated where you wanted the stove.

 

[NORO LIM]

Exhaust port location? Don't have any idea exactly where the current vent is, or if you can vent the exhaust all the way down at the current spot. Maybe it's OK where it is, or maybe it could be moved up, but still below the gunnel. A higher location might introduce the potential for serious ankle level heat when working your way to the fore deck. Also don't know if you could vent the exhaust through the cabin roof. Just thoughts.

 

[Captains Cat]

There's a good factory Wallas rep that's a member here, maybe he'll chime in, I'm sure he will have an answer for you.

Can't remember his name right now MacMac or something like that.

Anyone help?

Charlie

 

[bridma]

My mate Stuart MacKenzie is a Wallas rep. He is not a C-Brat but he supported us at the Comox Gathering last year. You can reach Stuart at stuart@comoxmaw.ca

Martin.

 

[mgarr682]

Exhaust port location? Don't have any idea exactly where the current vent is, or if you can vent the exhaust all the way down at the current spot. Maybe it's OK where it is, or maybe it could be moved up, but still below the gunnel. A higher location might introduce the potential for serious ankle level heat when working your way to the fore deck. Also don't know if you could vent the exhaust through the cabin roof. Just thoughts.

My exhaust port seems to be located in about the same place I've seen it located in photos of other boats. Here is a photo of my boat from the dealer just before delivery:



Right now the exhaust hose runs from the stove toward the hull then loops up under the side deck and back down to the exhaust port in order to keep water from entering the stove via the exhaust hose. I think raising the stove to the height I'm looking at would give me another inch or two of vertical clearance from the exhaust port than I'm getting now from just the loop. I might need a slightly longer exhaust hose but I think it will work.

On a side note, I've seen mention of a wind deflector that attaches to the exhaust port that helps the stove vent in windy conditions.

Link: http://www.scanmarineusa.com/accessorie ... ector.html

Mine does not have that but since I've become quite fond of my little furnace on the cold and wet days I've spent working on the boat I'm wondering if it would be a worth while addition.

 

[Sunbeam]

My exhaust port seems to be located in about the same place I've seen it located in photos of other boats.[/img]

That looks similar to mine, which is a 22 Cruiser and so already has the stove at around the height I would imagine you're thinking of moving yours to.

Here is a photo of the inside, showing the exhaust hose and through-hull location (ignore bilge-pump hose; it's being re-installed with new materials and a proper loop!)



I don't know where your tank is located, but mine was on the forward galley "wall." I've also seen it mounted in the same basic location but on the aft "wall." If you like to use your stove a lot, and/or if it makes sense for your stowage configuration, there is another tank sold by Wallas/Scan that has twice the capacity of the vertical jug and sits lower and more horizontal.

On a side note, I've seen mention of a wind deflector that attaches to the exhaust port that helps the stove vent in windy conditions.

I took a look at one of those when I was at Scan this summer. Right now I'm not sure whether or not I will reinstall my Wallas, but if I do I'll likely add the wind deflector. I don't like the thought of wind causing an exhaust issue. It's a pretty simple device that one could probably make, but since I don't have time to make everything in life, I'd just buy one It attaches via existing fasteners.

Sam on Retriever (forum name "Dauntless20") had some exhaust issues due to wind and got one of the deflectors. He took his 22 to Alaska and back this summer and I don't remember him mentioning further wind/exhaust trouble. Even if I'm remembering incorrectly on that, I'm pretty sure he never mentioned anything like "I'll be removing this," or "Sorry I installed it." You could probably read more by searching his posts and then reading his blog (which is inspiring reading anyway and with great photos to-boot!).

Edited to add: Just sitting around waiting for rain to go away, so I looked up his blog for a link. Here is the post where he first had the issue; in a future post I believe he posted a photo of the deflector in place. I can't imagine anyone starting to read his blog and not being sucked in to reading more anyway - especially a C-Brat in February!

http://www.samlandsman.blogspot.com/2011/12/whered-heat-go.html
Sunbeam :hot

 

[mgarr682]

That looks similar to mine, which is a 22 Cruiser and so already has the stove at around the height I would imagine you're thinking of moving yours to.

I'm not sure how high the counter top is in the Cruiser but what I have in mind would probably be close.

Here is a photo of the inside, showing the exhaust hose and through-hull location (ignore bilge-pump hose; it's being re-installed with new materials and a proper loop!).

That is certainly a more open area to work in than the Angler. Does your exhaust hose have a heat shield? If so it makes for a much neater installation than mine which has a fabric heat shield. Is there a special sealant needed for the exhaust through hull due to the heat issue? I don't remember seeing anything about that in the mounting instructions.

I don't know where your tank is located, but mine was on the forward galley "wall." I've also seen it mounted in the same basic location but on the aft "wall." If you like to use your stove a lot, and/or if it makes sense for your stowage configuration, there is another tank sold by Wallas/Scan that has twice the capacity of the vertical jug and sits lower and more horizontal.

I think the tall tank would be a very tight fit in the lower area of that compartment on the Anger vs the taller and larger area in the Cruiser. My set up has the low tank mounted at the aft inboard area of the compartment. Looking at it I estimate it as about 2.5 gallon capacity.

Right now I'm not sure whether or not I will reinstall my Wallas, but if I do I'll likely add the wind deflector.

I'm thinking I'll add the wind deflector to mine. Anything that will keep it chugging along. As I've said, I've decided I like a "heated" boat and I haven't even put it in the water yet!

Sam on Retriever (forum name "Dauntless20)....

Yes, that was the first time I saw mention of the wind deflector. I followed his trip this past summer online while I was still deciding between the C-Dory and the Ranger Tug. He writes a great blog and posts some excellent photos. I've been checking back now and then to see if he's taken any more trips but haven't seen any updates.

 

[Sunbeam]

I'm not sure how high the counter top is in the Cruiser but what I have in mind would probably be close.

I just ran out and measured. It's 34" off the sole (hull of boat) at the front (inboard side) of the counter (not counting the fiddle). The inboard side of the galley is a few inches outboard of the door stile. So just a bit shorter than a standard kitchen counter.

Does your exhaust hose have a heat shield?

No, mine didn't come with a heat shield. It also doesn't run too close to anything until just before the through hull. However, I wouldn't say that for sure it was installed perfectly, and they do have that fiberglass "sock" material at Scan Marine (I was there discussing a 1300 heater installation with them and we took a look at it). I would say that, well, there is no evidence of excess heat on the hull there, but then when I sent my stove in to Scan for inspection/tune-up they said it looked like it had never been used (and the boat had very little use at all anyway); so it's likely it was never fired up.

Is there a special sealant needed for the exhaust through hull due to the heat issue? I don't remember seeing anything about that in the mounting instructions.

I want to say they said RTV sealant, but I don't remember for sure (and too, I might have blanked it out if they recommended silicone :wink)

My set up has the low tank mounted at the aft inboard area of the compartment. Looking at it I estimate it as about 2.5 gallon capacity.

Oh nice, that's the large tank you already have.

Sunbeam

 

[macmac]

This must be a fairly new boat, since it has the new 800t/220 kerosene stove.

Raising your Wallas 800t/220 should not be a problem, but you may need to get some additional fuel line, return line and exhaust, although the exhaust run looks like it will still work. Make sure the stove has a way for air to get under it - it needs about 16 square inches of air flow into the space below.

The fuel pump can lift fuel up to 7 feet. Be aware that the fuel return line (black) MUST make a steady downhill run from the stove to the tank, with no bellies in the line.

The deflector for the exhaust outlet is for preventing wind blowback generated by boat speed when using the heater while running. We have them, p/n 5566 if you are interested.

We are here every weekday, advice is free and we are happy to help.

Doug at Scan
1-888-606-6665

 

[mgarr682]

This must be a fairly new boat, since it has the new 800t/220 kerosene stove.

Raising your Wallas 800t/220 should not be a problem, but you may need to get some additional fuel line, return line and exhaust, although the exhaust run looks like it will still work. Make sure the stove has a way for air to get under it - it needs about 16 square inches of air flow into the space below.

The fuel pump can lift fuel up to 7 feet. Be aware that the fuel return line (black) MUST make a steady downhill run from the stove to the tank, with no bellies in the line.

The deflector for the exhaust outlet is for preventing wind blowback generated by boat speed when using the heater while running. We have them, p/n 5566 if you are interested.

We are here every weekday, advice is free and we are happy to help.

Doug at Scan
1-888-606-6665

Thanks! I got a good look at how the stove is installed today since I was in that compartment to move the pilot's seat. I will certainly need longer fuel lines. I'll be calling soon, thanks again!

 

[Sea Wolf]

The photo below shows the current location of the Wallas single burner stove/heater in my 22 Angler. I am considering putting a cabinet to be used as a built in tackle box with two or three drawers where the stove is located currently and placing the stove in the top of the cabinet. This would raise the stove to a point an inch or two below the level of the window.



After reviewing the installation directions from Wallas and looking at the actual installation it seems as if it would be a straightforward operation. To those of you who have installed or moved a Wallas stove, do you see any issues with my thoughts on moving it?

The current location has the stove mounted to the fiberglass (approx 1/4" thick, non-cored) box that the helm seat is mounted on. The install instructions make no mention of the mounting surface materials in regard to combustibility so I'm thinking that plywood would be an acceptable mounting surface. While running the stove in heater mode and using the old fashioned index finger heat sensor I can't seem to feel any high amount of heat in the current fiberglass mounting areas adjacent to the heater. Is the counter top in the Cruiser model plywood?

Does that sound like a reasonable plan or have I missed some major issue?

How about I play Devil's Advocate? :twisted:

How much volume of storage space are you really going to gain, and at what cost and effort?

Is there another space on board you could build an equivalent or larger tackle box and not have to move the stove in the process?

For example, over to the starboard side of the foot well and below the motor controls is an relatively large empty space that could serve to house a storage box or cabinet.

Admittedly, it's in a less convenient area than your proposal, but unused at this point and easy to utilize.

In fact, a moveable storage box could be placed there and moved out onto another surface, such as a table, when fishing.

I routinely keep such storage boxes in the sink, on the covered 3-burner stove, or on the dinette table when fishing in my CD-22.

Such a box could be purchased in an already made configuration, eliminating the wood shop project, too, for better or for worse(!).

Another consideration: What dangers are there to having a hot coffee pot behind your head, or will it be there under way? I know you plan to contain it somehow, but …………………?

Also, have you considered where the hot air will be directed when using the stove as a heater?

It will already be that much higher when exiting the Wallas.

How will you deal with the heavy cold air pooled below?

Do you have pans for a circulation booster fan?

Sorry, just a few second-guess thoughts for free! :lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup

 

[Sunbeam]

On the other, other hand :wink, I'd probably want to raise that stove if for no other reason than I wouldn't want to cook hunched over a low counter like that (of course to each their own).

Sunbeam

 

[Sea Wolf]

On the other, other hand :wink, I'd probably want to raise that stove if for no other reason than I wouldn't want to cook hunched over a low counter like that (of course to each their own).

Sunbeam

Yes, that's a pretty small space, etc.

Can't quite image a TV Chef doing their thing right there!

We started to come up with some single package foil enclosed container type integrated meals for BBQ type grilles about a month or two ago.

Maybe a similar all-in-one cookbook meal projects would be in order for boats with limited cook space?

Joe. :teeth :thup