Radar/chartplotter combo

G

Gene&Mary

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C Dory Year
2005
C Dory Model
22 Cruiser
Hull Identification Number
CDO22279A505
Vessel Name
Linnea
We have been in contact with Sam Landsman about this year's trip to Alaska. We'll see.

We have never had either radar or a chart plotter. Sam says a chart plotter is a must and radar is really useful due to fog in the late summer.

Questions/opinions requested. I'm sure these questions have been asked previously but with technology changing as fast as it does and our having a reason to now pull the trigger, it would be nice to have anyone's latest opinion.

What do you think about a combination radar/chart plotter or just getting a stand alone radar and using an ipad or a tablet as the chart plotter?

Who would you recommend in the Puget Sound area to install the equipment on our C22?

Thanks
 
Chartplotter is mandatory, and fixed-mount is better.

I would recommend a combination radar and chartplotter for most bang for the buck, especially in a small boat with relatively limited space for big screens. With more space and more $, I prefer a separate screen for each.

That said, we did two months in SE Alaska in our CD22 without radar. We must have been lucky, as fog forced us to stay put when we wanted to travel only a couple of times. Other years, we've been in the middle of a longer crossing, like the Dixon Entrance, or more often crossing the Queen, when fog settled in and there was no way to avoid it - we had to keep going. Crossing the Queen, there is sizable shipping you must avoid - cruise ships, and huge tug/tows. Best way to see them in fog is radar, but you could conceivably install AIS to be able to know where they are. AIS would not help you avoid smaller boats, however - most do not have AIS.
 
I would second the Radar Plotter choice. And add, a backup plotter/nav system would also be necessary. I would also recommend a VHF radio that has AIS receive capability. My favorite recommendation is the ICOM M-506 because it not only has the AIS Receive function, but has a last call recording function also. The Standard Horizon 2150 or 2200 also has the AIS Receive and bot radios can output that to your plotter.

The advantage of having both radar and AIS: Radar can see everything through the fog EXCEPT around the corner of that island. AIS can't see everything, (some boats don't have Active AIS), BUT AIS can see that big cruise ship coming around that island that the radar can't see through. AND, the AIS will tell you exactly when you and that big ship are going to get together in that tiny pass at the end of the island. AND, the AIS is telling you that even though if it isn't foggy.

As always, it's your choice, but for me, the kind of surprises I like on the water are Orca, sunsets and baby seals, NOT cruise ships coming at you at 20 knots, or islands jumping out of the fog, dead ahead.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Hi Gene & Mary, We had had the Raymarine C120 multi screen display on our 25' Rosborough. It included depth sounder as well as radar and chart plotter. As you probably know you can toggle between full screen on each display, have 2 displays showing or have all 3 up at the same time. On Lake Champlain we usually had split screen with radar and chart plotter up. When entering shallow water, as when preparing to anchor, we would switch to the depth sounder. Very nice set up.
Good luck.
Ron
 
Yes. If you are serious about a cruise up north you should have these things. I wouldn't be without a chart plotter and a backup (that could be an ipad/iphone). Many modern plotters have wifi capabilities and will mirror to your ipad as well.

I like my lowrance hds gen 2 setup. It is very good as far as sonar and plotter, but I don't have radar on it. I've wanted it though. The real benefit to this setup is the inexpensive autopilot options available, which is something I'd have for an extended cruise as well.

However if I were buying today, I think Garmin has the best of the high end sonar/plotter tech. I do support people spending some money up front on electronics and not going for the less expensive options, largely because the better gear will be compatible and really usable with other gear you may need/want farther into the future.

I like touch screens these days, most do very well, even with wet fingers, however it's best to have some buttons there as well. Best of both worlds.

Radar. Sheesh, I've wanted it a bunch of times, having been out when some fog rolled in. I've also shut down a few trips early because fog was threatening and because I didn't have radar, and would have been fine to stay out, so you may miss out on some opportunity if you don't have it. At the very least, have a radar reflector so other boats with radar can see you well enough. AIS is a big plus too.

But please oh please, carry a PLB and/or EPIRB. Help is a long way away up here, and it can be a challenge to get out a distress call on VHF that anyone will hear. The speedy currents in the inside passage and unpredictable winds can send you a fair distance from the position you reported in a distress call, such that you would be difficult to find, even from the air, after much time had passed.
 
I went with the Garmin 740 w/ radar five years ago after a few years with a 5 inch chart-plotter screen. I didn't know didlly about radar. What I've learned is that you have many choices on how to display: side by side or radar overlay. After trying both there are times when stand alone "reveals" more and times when overlay is great. My "oh WOW" moment came when trying to follow a twisting channel with marker buoys farther apart than I could see. The radar showed the yellow overlay on the chart where the buoy was supposed to be. Talk about reassurance when in new waters! Also, I really love the touch screen, you just use you finger and point. Much more "intuitive" when things are new and confusing around you.

As a back up we have two computers and an I-pad on board all with various chart-plotting programs. My wife sets one on "wide view" or overview while I am driving and dealing with "details". Twice she has caught me heading up a wrong channel when my "situational awareness" got lost in the local details.
Chuck
 
Another "Second" on the PLB or EPIRB. PLB for each person on the boat would be a good idea. I think a second VHF (preferably the ICOM M-506 for it's AIS and Recording capabilities) is also a good idea, but obviously not one everyone does.

I use a RayMarine C-120, and I like the acreage of the big screen. it typically has a split screen with one side running a radar overlay. Beside that is a small Garmin GPS with either a cruising screen or fisherman's view (more bottom detail and contour info), which I like for shallow or narrow passages and for anchoring, and it is my anchor watch device.

Last summer after spending 48 days on the water in one stretch, as I was towing out of Telegraph Cove and the morning fog settled in over the road way, I found myself wishing I had radar in my truck 8) :lol:

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

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As Harvey says, it is the fog which gets you after you are out on the water. We navigated for many years without radar, but it sure is easier if you have it (and safer).

I personally like the Garmin, as being the easiest to use, and quality. You can get away with an 18" dome, but 24 gives a bit more discrimination. (separation of targets).

I also navigated Alaska with only a GPS-and no problems, but I also had room to carry over 200 charts during 5 summers spent in AK on the Cal 46.

We use an I pad, with Navionics as a back up, and supplement to chart plotter. It is certainly possible, but I feel easier to have a combo chart plotter and Radar on a MFD.

What ever you do--take the trip--it is wonder and in my opinion some of the best cruising in the entire world.
 
I think that a radar would be mandatory on a trip to Alaska these days. We used it and appreciated it. There are a number of new radars out today that are solid staTe/low power and can "see" at short and long ranges.

I see that Garmin is mentioned above, who have come out with a new Fantom radar that is solid state. Lowrance also has the 3G and 4G solid state with a good track record. Both have good displays and depth sounders.

I mention those two because OpenCpn can display a radar overlay with both those radars using a plugin through the radar's ethernet link. OpenCpn also has a support site on Cruisers Forum both for the basic OpenCpn program and the radar overlay.

Downloading and using OpenCpn on your PC can be done in two ways: as your primary display or as a backup to a dedicated MFD. It's free, the plugins are free and I use it. You can download free USA charts though you will have to buy Canidian charts. The OpenCpn users manual is helpful.

As for AIS, I have an AIS receiver (only) which is available for $200. It has outputs for both the PC and MFC. If you already have a VHF radio, it a cheap way to upgrade.

Boris
 
I think that a radar would be mandatory on a trip to Alaska these days. We used it and appreciated it. There are a number of new radars out today that are solid state/low power and can "see" at short and long ranges.

I see that Garmin is mentioned above, who have come out with a new Fantom radar that is solid state. Lowrance also has the 3G and 4G solid state with a good track record. Both have good displays and depth sounders.

I mention those two because OpenCpn can display a radar overlay with both those radars using a plugin through the radar's ethernet link. OpenCpn also has a support site on Cruisers Forum both for the basic OpenCpn program and the radar overlay.

Downloading and using OpenCpn on your PC can be done in two ways: as your primary display or as a backup to a dedicated MFD. It's free, the plugins are free and I use it. You can download free USA charts though you will have to buy Canidian charts. The OpenCpn users manual is helpful.

As for AIS, I have an AIS receiver (only) which is available for $200. It has outputs for both the PC and MFC. If you already have a VHF radio, it a cheap way to upgrade.

Boris
 
Panbo tests the new Garmin Fantom Radar Here. This article, and some which are linked and show the other latest radars are well worth the read.

Unfortunately this is not available in the US yet. It is also going to be a bit more expensive than the XHD, which is a good radar--slightly better than the HD. But any of the radars, including older by any of the brands, are adequate for AK. I would guess we spent over 300 days under way in SE AK--and maybe needed RADAR a few dozen days. Over the years.

The best thing for you to do is to go the boat shows, and play with the various radars/chart plotters.--of course the "demo" are all going to be optimized--so all of the images will look good.

I prefer a separate radar display, from the chart display. But my plotters are set up, so I can do overlay or side by side. Many of the New MFD have a GPS at 10 hz (update GPS at 10x per second), and can do overlay, with out a gyrated compass.
 
If you are headed up there I would also opt for an autopilot of some type. It will soon become your favorite cruising accessory. Even if you just use to lock on a straight course. Using it by way of just pointing the boat in the direction or heading you want to go then engage the auto pilot. That lets you keep an eye out for hazards takes a lot of the stress out of having to constantly steer. They can hold a course better than most. They are especially nice for traveling at lower speeds (displacement speed)when trying to get the best possible fuel mileage. We have had models with remote controls which come in very handy.
D.D.
 
I have to agree with Dave on the AP as a "nice addition"/ Since Zi am single handing almost 99.9% of the time, I do have and use my auto pilot (called George as in "Let George do it") frequently. Most of my cruising is at low speeds, and is point the boat and go style. I have 1100 hours on my boat now, and it is all with the radar on. Do I always need it,(the radar) depends on who you ask, but it has been incredibly useful on many occasions, life saving in a few and stress releaving in several hundred. It has saved my bacon on a clear day when a Washington State ferry tried sneaking up behind me at 20 knots, and I saw that big green wall climbing up the screen and another time when the fog came in thick and fast and I was just sitting watching the wildlife, until I heard a fog horn.

The AP is especially reliable to keep a strait line in foggy conditions, so it is most often used then. Speed is slow, windows open for hearing, the fog horn is on, and the watch is busy checking 360 while the boat goes straight down the course and up the plotter.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

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Another vote for an integrated Garmin system. Even my pickiest, most techy sailing friend with a fully developed, off shore, multi-brand wifi connected suite of mixed electronics told me two months ago (after a three month trip) he was throwing in the towel and going all Garmin. He finally realized that he could spend far less time troubleshooting and tinkering and more time smiling, while surprisingly saving some money as well. I will likely be selling of the parts of his current system on ebay to recover some of that cost.

They all come around eventually and Garmin is of course not the only good option.

Greg
 
Before you buy, check out the systems from Raymarine and Lowrance as well as Garmin. All have comparably priced units and playing with each manufacture's product will give you a feel as to how intuitive they are to operate. The boat shows are an excellent opportunity to compare the offerings.

Initially, we planned on Garmin to outfit our new 23 venture in 2013-15 but ended up with a Raymarine system (Multifunction unit, Radar, and Autopilot networked with Standard Horizon VHF (AIS), Lowrance HDS2 (mounted on rear rail, and Suzuki interface (Full engine functions on MFD). It took three years to complete this system (costs) but I was able to perform the installation myself and the process was straightforward

If you find a system that you can build on and is intuitive to you then owner installation might feel more comfortable as well.
 
Thanks for a the responses.

I do plan on checking out the different systems at the Boat Show but what about installation. Given where my boat is stored and the short time frame until Sam leaves, I'm not sure my learning curve is short enough to do it myself.

Who does a quality installation in the Puget Sound area and is familiar with C Dory installations?

Thanks
 
Installation of any of these is "plug and play". Basically you find input for positive and negative power. Run the transducer cable, and put the transducer on the transom--probably the hardest part. Plug transducer in. Most of the radars are plug and play--many just like a network cable. The radar goes on a "strut", or "The Dr. Bob Commode strut", made from plumbing fixtures at Home Depot or Lower). Bolt the radar on the strut and good to go. Operation of radar and tuning is a learned and easy proceedure--using the manual, and experience...

Part of the challenge is being sure that hull or cabin house core is not compromised---and most installers will not do this--so better DIY.
 
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