R-21 EC Bilge Pump Question

R

Rick and Karen

New member
Hi All,

The below link is the Technical Data Sheet for the Rule-mate 500 GPH automatic bilge pump installed on "Kolo Iki" and I assume all other R-21 EC tugs.

http://www.rule-industries.com/files/ru ... 0-1100.pdf

Since the boating experience on this forum far exceeds my own, I thought I would try asking my question here first before calling the factory tomorrow. We had quite a bit of rain last night and this morning and when I stopped by to check on our boat, the water in the aft bilge was over the prop shaft and almost lapping the bottom of the inspection door.

I had emptied the bilge yesterday afternoon upon our return to the dock and subsequent washdown, turning the battery selector and bilge pump switches to the OFF position when locking up. I don't have a pigtail (coming this week) for stepping down 30 amp shore power to a 115A VAC power cord yet, so I have been making sure that all electrical power was off every time I leave the boat. In the past I hadn't given it much thought because we haven't had a lot of rain since buying the boat and I always close the through hull fitting for the heat exchanger after shutting down the engine.

I have been doing it this way because whenever the bilge pump rocker switch is selected to the ON position, the pump never shuts off, even after all the water has been drained out of the bilge. It continues to buzz until I turn the switch OFF. It has dawned on me that I may have a defective pump based on the manufacturers own description of how the pump is supposed to work. It doesn't make any sense to me that the pump should continue to make noise after removing all water adjacent to the pump inlet. If it is making noise it is drawing power and seems to negate the definition of an automatic bilge pump.

My question for those of you with the same pump is two fold. Do you always leave the bilge pump switch in the ON position when afloat and if so, does the pump make a continuous buzzing sound?

Any input would be appreciated.

Aloha,

Rick and Karen
 
The rule bilge pumps have a built in float switch. One of the positive leads goes from the house battery or battery switch (through a fuse) and if the water activates the switch, the pump comes on. It would appear that in your boat this circuit is not active--not hooked up, connected so that when you turn the battery switch "off" it does not work, no fuse or blown fuse. You need to check this out. as I recollect that would be the brown wire--but look in the manual to double check. (the boat manual should have the installation manual for this pump)

The second wire (red) will go to the "on" bilge pump on the console. That is used ot manually activate the bilge pump. You can do this to take out slightly more water than the automatic switch.

You want to leave the automatic float switch on all of the time. (there is on "on" switch for this)
 
Mzkaye (CD16 cruiser)has a rule 1100 that works sporadically, or not all. I have cleaned it up several times, the last time seemed to fix it so it will run if the rocker switch at the helm is activated. I have never witnessed the automatic switch turn on nor seen any evidence that it has activated the pump.
Seeing as I have just rented a slip (covered) for the winter I have been thinking I needed to replace the darned thing.
Are there better brands?

chris
 
I just had to replace the Rule Mate 1100 on my boat because it wouldn't work on automatic. It has a Brown wire which is the automatic lead, Brown with white tracer for the switched lead and Black for the ground. Both brown and brown/white leads went to the dash switch. The brown went to the hot side of the switch. The 1100 float assembly can be taken apart to check for any obstructions.
 
The problem with Marvin's set up (and I suspect that many boats are rigged that way) is that if you turn off the batteries--no automatic bilge pumps.

Other brands, Attwood, Par/Jabsco, Johnson, FloJet, Whale, and "West Marine".

But often the problem is not the pump--it is the switch. For what ever reason, all of the bilge pumps on my boats (3 boats, 2 bilge pumps each, plus a back up) all work fine...
 
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the insight I will look into the areas you mentioned. There have been times, primarily when the boat was on the trailer for several weeks prior to being initially launched, when I have left the battery selector switch ON and the pump still has not worked even when totally submerged. I am beginning to suspect that the problem may lie with the internal float switch.

There isn't an owner's manual for the R-21EC, but I have a wiring diagram for the pump. I think the ON/OFF switch on the console serves as the manual overide switch mentioned in the linked technical data sheet. Further details to follow.

Aloha,

Rick
 
Rick
Maybe Andrew could be talked into coming over and bringing a new
pump with him. Nah he likes it where its cold and rains all the time.

Bob Heselberg Eatonville Wa
 
Good Evening Everyone,

I called Rule Industries this morning and spoke with a very helpful tech rep who passed on some very useful tips for troubleshooting with Rule pumps. On my boat, the brown and white wire coming off the pump is connected to a green wire that joins a wire bundle (the bundle is covered by a white rubberized coating which makes it look like flat home electrical conduit) that goes forward to the helm area. There is a small fuse block under the helm that has several fuses installed. The green wire previously mentioned was tagged BILGE PUMP and connected to a 3A fuse in that block.

The rep told me that if you unsnapped the pump from the bracket and turned it over, it would turn itself on after a few seconds if power was being applied. When this didn't work I checked the fuse and discovered that it had failed. I put in a replacement fuse and the pump started running when I held it upside down in my hands, but only if the battery selector switch was in the #2 or BOTH position.

I reinstalled the pump and used a hose to add water to the bilge and sure enough, after the water reached a pre-determined level, the pump kicked on as advertised. Now technically, the pump is supposed to be hot wired (with an inline fuse if required) directly to the battery or a hot lead off the battery and it should work regardless of the battery selector switch. I spoke to Andrew afterwards and he told me how I could mount the green wire directly to the backside of the battery selector switch and the pump would then function as designed no matter where the battery selector switch was positioned. I should have dockside power available later this week and I plan on leaving the battery charger plugged in, Andrew said that if the selector switch was in the BOTH position, the battery charger would charge both batteries, instead of just the one selected.

For the time being I am going to stay with this arrangement as it will maintain power to the automatic mode of the bilge pump and keep both batteries topped off.

Aloha,

Rick
 
Looks like Andrew will not be heading to Hawaii soon to fix the bilge
pump. Chin up Andrew you may get another chance but it may be
the Great Lakes in January.
Seriously Rick keep a eye on level of fluid in the battery and if the
fluid is being boiled out you may want to use a battery maintenance
device like from Harbor Freight. They are like a five dollar item and
are good to keep charged batteries at full charge. My tug did not
have a problem when pluged in to ac at the dock but in some areas
it could be hard on the zincs underwater. Thats a whole new subject
that I am not well versed on.
I did do one thing and that was to get spare fuses for the boat in the
tool box so they are ready to go when needed.

Take care Bob Heselberg Eatonville Wa
 
I did speak with Richard about this on the phone. I was really trying to make it sound like a big problem and this would definitely require my attention in Hawaii. John and Jeff didn't agree. Maybe next time :D
 
Rick and Karen,

I also experienced the same situation in that my automatic bilge pump would not turn on. We would hose down the boat and the water would not be pumped out unless the manual switch was turned on. Tracing the wiring we found that a brown/white wire went directly to the battery aft of the engine. Upon removing the three amp fuse mounted inline with the wires we found it open. The fuse was replaced and all is operating correctly. To speculate, perhaps as the boat on the trailer moves around as you drive down the road the pump float switch closes, the pump runs and as it has no cooling from the water the current draw increases and the fuse opens. Just a thought.

Dan
 
Hi Dan,

You said:

"Tracing the wiring we found that a brown/white wire went directly to the battery aft of the engine. Upon removing the three amp fuse mounted inline with the wires we found it open. The fuse was replaced and all is operating correctly."

Since your boat is a 2008 it sounds like Ranger made a design change. The tech rep from Rule suggested that I could wire my boat exactly as you described. Andrew told me that newer boats do not have the Perko four position battery selector switch marked 1, 2, BOTH and OFF. The new switch is either ON or OFF, maybe the way your pump is wired is a direct result of that change. With the bilge pump hot wired to the battery, there is less chance of it not working for other reasons besides a fuse or dead battery.

Thanks for your input, I learn a little bit more about our boat every time I step aboard. We don't trailer Kolo Iki, but I now know what to check if there is a couple of inches of water in the aft bilge between outings.

Aloha,

Rick
 
Hello Rick,

You are correct, my boat has a battery switch that has only two positions, Off, On. There must have been a buss wiring change at that time. As you I keep my boat in the water. We have our first rain storm of the year on the way and we are interested as to the pump performance and the fuse during this rain. I still do feel the the fuse opened up during transportation. Enjoy.

Dan
 
gunterprof":36jppz2j said:
To speculate, perhaps as the boat on the trailer moves around as you drive down the road the pump float switch closes, the pump runs and as it has no cooling from the water the current draw increases and the fuse opens. Just a thought.

Dan
Click to expand...
I doubt that bumping down the road would do more than momentarily activate the float switch. I have run these pumps dry plenty of times, and it doesn't seem to hurt anything or blow fuses. I could see how constantly flicking the float switch on and off as you bump down the road would be very hard on a fuse, though.
 
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