Propane stove in cabin

P

pcg

Member
Why not?
I’m planning the restoration of my project boat and think I want a propane stove in the cabin. This stove is for cooking only, not heat. I’m planning on heating with diesel. I have no more concern for having a propane stove in the cabin than I would have for having a gas stove in my house. It will be properly installed and we’ll have propane and CO detection.
Some background… we’ve had a propane stove in our off-road truck/camper for 20 years. The way we use our stove, when we want heat, we want it immediately. We don’t want to wait for a Wallace stove to heat up just to make a cup of hot chocolate. We love our propane stove. It starts instantly and reliably, it’s easy to control the heat, and we’ve have had zero problems with it. We have no moisture problems because it is only on for short periods and a fan immediately exhausts any moisture from cooking and propane combustion. We have a propane detector on the floor, and we’ve never had a propane leak, despite hundreds of hours of bouncing the camper over very rough roads. The 20# bottle is stored outside the living space.
The only downside I can see is that we’ll be carrying three different fuels and will have to incorporate a propane locker somewhere in the cockpit. I’m OK with that. So, is there something else I’m not aware of, that might change my mind?
 
I recently bought a C-dory that has a propane stove top and propane heater too. It is plumbed to a standard size propane tank out back right next to the main engine, out of the cabin and out of the way. So far I love it, it starts right up and it will heat the whole place up very quickly. It also has a CO and propane detector that works very well.... ask me how I know. Started the heater and forgot to open the heater vent, and the alarm went off... didn't take very long at all. I would skip the diesel for simplicity and just stick with propane.

Bill



pcg":p56ej7y4 said:
Why not?
I’m planning the restoration of my project boat and think I want a propane stove in the cabin. This stove is for cooking only, not heat. I’m planning on heating with diesel. I have no more concern for having a propane stove in the cabin than I would have for having a gas stove in my house. It will be properly installed and we’ll have propane and CO detection.
Some background… we’ve had a propane stove in our off-road truck/camper for 20 years. The way we use our stove, when we want heat, we want it immediately. We don’t want to wait for a Wallace stove to heat up just to make a cup of hot chocolate. We love our propane stove. It starts instantly and reliably, it’s easy to control the heat, and we’ve have had zero problems with it. We have no moisture problems because it is only on for short periods and a fan immediately exhausts any moisture from cooking and propane combustion. We have a propane detector on the floor, and we’ve never had a propane leak, despite hundreds of hours of bouncing the camper over very rough roads. The 20# bottle is stored outside the living space.
The only downside I can see is that we’ll be carrying three different fuels and will have to incorporate a propane locker somewhere in the cockpit. I’m OK with that. So, is there something else I’m not aware of, that might change my mind?
Click to expand...
 
Paul-

Sounds like you know what the issues are and how to deal with them with proper care. Good thinking!

I had a propane Wedgewood RV 3-burner cooking stove and a Force 10 Cozy Cabin space heater in my CD-22 Cruiser with the propane tank in one side of the engine well and all the necessary propane and CO detectors, gas lines, distribution fans, etc. It all adds up to quite a system.

Since you want only to add a cooking stove to your Diesel cabin heater, you might consider simplifying things by just adding a portable single burner stove that runs off disposable propane tanks. Quite a few C-Brats have reported using them successfully and have been happy with the results. They're cheap ($30-$50), easy to store, don't take up your galley counter space when not in use, and if you decide you don't like using one, then you can install a permanent stove instead, and not be out much $$$ for the experiment. Such a stove can also be used out in the cockpit instead of the cabin, adding some flexibility and an opportunity to get rid of cooking odors.

This may not be a perfect solution, but is much simpler, is less expensive, fits into the Holy KISS Principle of Applied Marine Science, and can result in another revelation that sometimes LESS IS MORE! :lol:

Good Luck with whatever you choose.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
In cold weather I use a L'il Buddy propane heater in my boat. It uses 1 lb propane canisters. Works fine.

I have a built in Kenyon butane stove. It works fine in warm weather. In cool weather it can be a bit touchy to use because of the low fuel pressure when it is cold. When it is cool out it is difficult to keep the flame going when set to low. Any sort of breeze will blow it out (or even opening and closing the cabinet doors). The best way to cook with it in cold weather is to use it on high in bursts (heat, coast, repeat), simmering is right out.

A propane stove might be better and my wife would like more than one burner. But the convenience of the butane canisters that just slide into the stove might be hard to beat.
 
I have had propane stoves on my large long distance cruising boats. Same in RV's--including propane refrigerators, and furnaces. But...in the boats, the propane tanks were kept in lockers which were sealed from the rest of the boat, and were vented at the bottom overboard.

Propane is a very explosive fuel. It is proper to use the solenoid valves, which shut off the propane at the tank upon a leak being discovered. Also the propane tank can be easily shut off each time you use the stove. (As it should be). I would love to see how the propane for a 20# tank can be constructed in the cockpit to properly drain overboard.

I have seen the effects on several patients I have cared for who suffered propane explosions and burns--and of course loss of the boat. I have personally witnessed two propane explosions on boats. It is rare, but occurs, that the seals on the canisters fail--and a sudden leak of LPG (often propane/butane mix) occurs. If there is a source of ignition--boom--fire and death or at least severe burns.

If you leave the large cylinders out in the open, especially in salt water, there is going to be corrosion--and perhaps failure of the shut off valve solenoid.

The mention of a vent fan is good--the volume of a C Dory is a fraction of that of a house in a kitchen--where there is a hood with ventilation.

In Florida--heat is rarely needed--and In the PNW there is demand for heat, even in the summer at times. I have never been a fan of propane heat on a boat. It has to be vented. Propane is left on at night.

All said--we are using an induction burner/burners on our current boat. We do keep the small propane cylinders in a PVC pipe vented over board and use the propane stove as a back up in the cockpit.

Be safe!
 
Well this is timely.. I just got a "Buddy - Indoor safe" heater for my 16' cruiser. I plan to use the 1lb screw in cylinders. I got to thinking:

(1) Waves, and unexpected waves... Don't want it tipping over. Solution: secure it to something.

(2) Safe clearance.. There is pretty limited floor space in the cabin of a 16' Cruiser. Will look more into this..

(3) Ventilation and heated space.. I probably should get a "lil" buddy (smaller heater) for such a small space!? The regular "buddy" is rated for up to 225 sqft..

(4) Thataway's post has me concerned that I am on the wrong track altogether. If there was a leak, that little cabin would fill up fast with gas.. Should I look into a safer option? What would a safer option be?

-James
 
The L'il Buddy with shut off if it tips over. If it is on you have to move it carefully to prevent it from tripping off, so I am not worried about any tip overs.

We don't leave it on when we are sleeping. It is mostly used in the evenings before bed and first thing in the morning when it is cold. The L'il Buddy uses 1# propane canisters which are not refillable and in our case are not kept long enough to experience corrosion issues.

I'm not sure that there is a whole lot of difference between propane and butane as far as flare ups are concerned. My Kenyon stove often goes out it has been know to have a big flare up when it is relit. As mentioned previously it is necessary to keep an eye on the flame. The only difference might be that the 8oz (or so) butane canister contains a lot less fuel than a 20# propane tank so the risk of a major explosion is less.

Maybe you can have the best of both worlds: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN ... ezvid02-20
 
I should have mentioned I'm thinking of using this 10# bottle…
http://www.suremarineservice.com/Galley ... 93137.html
By enlarging a portion of the top of the port cockpit lazarette by just 5/16” on each side, this bottle will fit inside. The lazarette cover would still fit, some sort of latch(es) could be added to make a good seal, a means for securing the tank could be added, and there is room for all required fittings including the electric shut-off valve. That lazarette is enclosed at the bottom and has a drain that can be plumbed thought the hull and above the waterline, so with a little modification it could become a propane locker.

The only problem is… it’s on the wrong side of the boat. The starboard lazarette would be much more suitable except that it is not enclosed at the bottom and has no drain. I might glass in a portion of that lazarette, add a drain, and put the batteries on the cockpit floor between the fuel tanks.

Lots to think about, which is why I like this suggestion. Aside from being much simpler, it provides more counter space. It would probably be worthwhile to try this first...
Sea Wolf":1k6sbgos said:
... you might consider simplifying things by just adding a portable single burner stove that runs off disposable propane tanks...
Click to expand...
although I really like the idea of a permanent stove.

Again, I'm not looking for a cabin propane heater, just a propane stove. Although I realize now this would give me a redundant heat source for emergencies, as I could bring along my little propane catalytic heater, which I use in my open drift boat. It would be good for hand warming in the cockpit, but I wouldn't bring it into the cabin as it's not designed for an enclosed space.
Also, I've never had any problem lighting the stove in our camper, or with it staying lit, regardless of how cold it is outside where the tank is stored, or what altitude I'm at.
 
We used a butane stove on our sailboat for years. Then we used it camping out west and found it didn't work at all with temps in the 20s. I am told butane is light so leaks head up and (hopefully) out while propane heads down, pools near the keel and then can go boom.

Our solution was an exterior propane locker (std 20 - 15 now lb tank) with solenoid for the stove. I put in a forced air propane heater outside the cabin vented in. We found this heater was much quieter than similar type diesel (like the wallace) heaters and I didn't have to install a separate tank. Our forced air draws air from outside (it has 2 other vents for combustion and combustion gases vented outside the hull) so it creates a high pressure in the cabin when on so we don't have to open a door or anything when cooking.

This worked very well for us for extended cruising in temps in the 30s and 40s (F).

A note about the regs. We met a skipper up in BC whose insurance made him re-plumb the boat replacing all his copper tubing with single run (no joints) flexible. Then he had a fire from a unrelated source and almost had the boat blow up. He was able to put the fire out before it burned through the hosing (very lucky), but it was a near thing. The problem with the solenoid idea is that if anything in the cabin using propane is used all the time, like heat or refrigeration, the solenoid is on all the time which pretty much eliminates the reason for having it in the first place.

John
 
Both butane and propane are heavier than air. Both can pool in the bilge. Butane boils at a higher temperature, so that at temps below 32 F, it may be difficult to get a stove or furnace lit.
 
The only cooking gas which is used in boats which is lighter than air is compressed natural gas. "Compressed" is the key word here; where as the propane/butane mixes are "Liquid"--convert to liquid phase at a lower pressure than the natural gas. . The tanks historically have been exchanged tanks--and places to exchange are few and far between--although are available in some localized areas.

pig: The smaller tanks could work if put into the port lazarette (which in many boats do have a drain. This is where I kept our emergency propane cylinders in the 22's we owned. Sealing the starboard side is more problematical, because of the several openings.

Ref John C's comment: Relative density: Air =1, Propane =1.53, Butane =2.00 Natural gas =0 .555. Thus Butane is 2x the density of air and denser than propane, sinks more rapidly and will layer below propane if both leak. So it is definitely an explosive hazard. Natural gas is lighter than air.

Also remember that JohnC's boat is a Rosborough 246, not a C Dory 22--and the deck/cabin configuration is different. Not sure I would be comfortable with a LPG furnace running on a boat when sleeping. Diesel is safer.

The problem with the solenoid idea is that if anything in the cabin using propane is used all the time, like heat or refrigeration, the solenoid is on all the time which pretty much eliminates the reason for having it in the first place.
Click to expand...

LPG refrigeration does not belong on a boat--the refrigerator would have to be gambled, flexible lines--no, plus the potential for leak. Even in AK, we did not run the diesel heater during the day-- no reason to run a LPG heater during the day and I would strongly suggest against running it at night.
 
The little buddy shuts off with the slightest bump. I gave up on them. Bought a wallas 1300. Second one I have had and they work great.
 
JOHN C":fa48tnsy said:
The problem with the solenoid idea is that if anything in the cabin using propane is used all the time, like heat or refrigeration, the solenoid is on all the time which pretty much eliminates the reason for having it in the first place.
Click to expand...

This does not have to be the case. In our sailboat we have propane sensors in the bilge. If propane is detected, an alarm is triggered and the solenoid is shut down by the system to prevent additional propane from flowing.
 
Where? I'd like to be able to refill mine.
Click to expand...
At home :wink:

You can buy an adapter on Amazon that connects the 1 pound canister valve to a standard 5 gallon propane tank valve. You put the empty 1# canisters in the freezer; then fill them by tipping the 5 gallon tank upside down (liquid propane flows into the 1# canister). This fills the 1#'er about 65%. Put them back in the freezer; then fill them again.

One must be careful during the 2nd filling since you can put more than a pound of propane in the canister. You get a feel for this after a while. If you do get more than a pound, you can release the extra via the pressure relief value on the 1# canister. You can also be satisfied with the 65% (a guess) fill amount with a single filling.

I have 8 to 10 of these 1# canisters I've saved over the years. I cycle thru them and fill them all every 2 years or so.
 
Just to clarify something: butane is heavier than air, as is propane. In fact, butane is 2.08 times heavier than air.

That said, we (I sometimes make hot water for coffee) have used a single burner butane stove for years on Journey On. We keep the butane cartridges inside the cabin, haven't had a problem yet. Yes, that should drive Bob wild. The Wallis takes too long to heat water in the morn, but the butane stove is great for fast response.

We do pull the butane cylinders out when we're at home and store them in the garage. And you should buy than at an Asian food store, because they're ~$1.50.

Boris
 
I have a propane system on my boat...I have a propane stove top and a fireplace style heater.... both work great... but it is important that the USCG approves the plumbing and all the vents....it is a pain but worth the effort in the event your boat catches fire... each device requires it's own feed line ...no T fittings ...it must have a solenoid valve for each line...it must have a manual on/off valve in each line...I had my propane lines custom made...

I also have an aluminum propane tank in my lazaret I made an extended bottom so the tank fits deep in the lazaret...I vent off the bottom of the propane locker to a overboard discharge...nice and clean...and USCG approved.

You can see pictures of my system and fiberglass lazaret bottom on my pictures page...

Joel
SEA3PO
 
SEA3PO":1m9nq2n1 said:
I also have an aluminum propane tank in my lazaret I made an extended bottom so the tank fits deep in the lazaret...You can see pictures of my system and fiberglass lazaret bottom on my pictures page...
Click to expand...
Thanks Joel. That's a great idea and well-executed. More food for thought...
 
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