cattlejack
Member
Looking at a 2004 22, what problems or issues should I be looking for?
Problems to look for
- Thread starter cattlejack
- Start date
The main issue of any of the boat is water intrusion into the core. This comes from unsealed holes (any screw) into the core of the bottom of the boat (inside). The proper way to do this is to glass a small piece of synthetic wood or similar material onto the top of the bottom (like around the fuel tank) rather than drilling a hole and putting a screw into place. If you must drill or cut a hole in the bottom of the boat, then it should be over-drilled win size and then fill with thickened epoxy. Then drill the pilot hole and attach the item. This same issue is apparent around any hatch cut into cored material, such as the deck or aft hatches.
In the sides there can be water leaks thru the rivets which hold the rub rail on. Also there can be water intrusion under the V Bunk or floor from the drain of the anchor locker.
All of these things are "fixable".
Check to see if all systems work properly--the Marine surveyor should do that.
Desirable extras include the camper canvas, making an extra room in the cockpit, and anchor windlass, modern electronics (older may be difficult to get chart chips for). Check condition of upholstery as well as the gel coat thruout the boat.
The surveyor will use a small mallet to "sound" the hull looking for delamination. Also a moisture meter may be used. There are pitfalls with using a moisture meter--it can give false positives as well as false negatives.
Be sure and do a sea trial, consider having a certified mechanic look at the outboards.
In the sides there can be water leaks thru the rivets which hold the rub rail on. Also there can be water intrusion under the V Bunk or floor from the drain of the anchor locker.
All of these things are "fixable".
Check to see if all systems work properly--the Marine surveyor should do that.
Desirable extras include the camper canvas, making an extra room in the cockpit, and anchor windlass, modern electronics (older may be difficult to get chart chips for). Check condition of upholstery as well as the gel coat thruout the boat.
The surveyor will use a small mallet to "sound" the hull looking for delamination. Also a moisture meter may be used. There are pitfalls with using a moisture meter--it can give false positives as well as false negatives.
Be sure and do a sea trial, consider having a certified mechanic look at the outboards.
cattlejack
Member
That's it, nobody else wants to chime in on this?
Salmon Fisher
Member
Is there a trailer included?
-Year of tires
-Bearings recently serviced?
-Brakes serviced?
-Rollers or bunks in good condition?
-Lights work?
-Wiring in good condition?
As far as the boat is concerned, Dr. Bob has pretty much covered the major points.
-Upholstery in good condition?
-Water system operable and winterized if outside?
-Steering smooth?
-Bilge pump working?
-All switches operating and electrical system look good?
-Emergency flares up to date and any other safety systems good?
-Gel coat need work or has been polished and waxed?
Let us know how it all goes and good luck!
-Year of tires
-Bearings recently serviced?
-Brakes serviced?
-Rollers or bunks in good condition?
-Lights work?
-Wiring in good condition?
As far as the boat is concerned, Dr. Bob has pretty much covered the major points.
-Upholstery in good condition?
-Water system operable and winterized if outside?
-Steering smooth?
-Bilge pump working?
-All switches operating and electrical system look good?
-Emergency flares up to date and any other safety systems good?
-Gel coat need work or has been polished and waxed?
Let us know how it all goes and good luck!
Make sure the motor runs well in all speed ranges. The boat I bought had a Honda engine on it. It ran fine at idle and high speed (<4000 rpm). Speeds between 2K and 4K were another matter. After I discovered this, I asked the PO about it. He said he rarely ran the boat in the mid RPMS and never noticed a problem.
BTW, the motor was fixed under warranty after I bought the boat under a SB from Honda. Had to replace the ECU.
BTW, the motor was fixed under warranty after I bought the boat under a SB from Honda. Had to replace the ECU.
Well, I was not sure if I was going to post this yet but I guess now's as good a time as any...Yes core de-lamination issues... Boat is stored on the trailer and soft garage kept.. My work is cut out for me. Go easy on me, this is my first go round with YouTube videos and yes I've gotten a hold of Andy and will be getting some ideas from him as well.
...Moment of silence for my temporary loss.... She'll be back though...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZXdxU ... subscriber
...Moment of silence for my temporary loss.... She'll be back though...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZXdxU ... subscriber
cattlejack":dm5h0lb8 said:
There's a decent video on YouTube that points out some things to look for:
https://youtu.be/wCIjkHzEEgU
- Gary
John, thank you for sharing with us about the core delamination you found on your boat. Don't worry, you did not hijack this post. It is useful information to know when considering the purchase of a used C-Dory. You did everything right by having it surveyed before you bought it. I appreciate your honesty and integrity in not dumping the boat onto someone else when you first found the problem.
I went to your new post "Balsa Core Delamination" and looked at your 6th video of Scallywag-"The Issue" (9min. 50sec. video). Great heart felt video. Please keep us posted on your progress. Wish you the best.
Gary.
I went to your new post "Balsa Core Delamination" and looked at your 6th video of Scallywag-"The Issue" (9min. 50sec. video). Great heart felt video. Please keep us posted on your progress. Wish you the best.
Gary.
cattlejack
Member
The 22 I'm thinking about is listed on this site as the 2004 22 with trailer
What do you guys think about the description list for it
What do you guys think about the description list for it
Salmon Fisher
Member
I think it sounds like an outstanding boat.
The owner has taken good care of it and taken the time to write a detailed description, which says a lot.
Have you seen it? Seen pictures of it?
The owner has taken good care of it and taken the time to write a detailed description, which says a lot.
Have you seen it? Seen pictures of it?
Looking at the list, the boat is fairly well equipped. No mention of windless, or camper canvas--both can be desirable. The trailer is single axle--many are, and they are fine for relatively short distance trailering. I had a single axle trailer, on one of my boats, and it did fail, after several cross country trips. If you are only going a few hundred miles, or even limited long distance that should be fine. If you plan on cross country multiple times, a 2 axle trailer will be better. Be sure that the tire manufacture date is less than 5 years old. No matter what the tread looks like. The tires fail from "dry rot" far more often than being worn out. RV and boat trailer tries should be replaced every 5 to 6 years.
Full camper canvas is somewhere in the $2500 on up category, and gives you an "extra room". It is nice when there is rain. Also zip out windows with screens make sitting out when the bugs are out is a good idea.
Find out if the boat has been shrink wrapped or stored inside during the winter. You are in an area of freeze thaw cycles. This could cause issues. If the cockpit has been dry with the cockpit cover this may suffice.
The dry weight is right out of the brochure, and is slightly misleading. Basically figure the boats are 4500# on the trailer, some can be over 5,000# loaded for cruising, and a very light boat on the trailer is 4,000 #. This may make a difference in tow vehicle.
The removable cockpit floor is a very nice feature. I consider this a plus. It sounds as if a newer chart plotter and sounder which is good. A Bimini is good, the inside hand rails are good, I like the Wallas stove. The Bimini is good. A cockpit slant back cover (I believe this is what he is referring to.) is good.
You will have to make your or have a surveyor made the determination about other issues. You have had some good advice.
The boat has been for sale for some time. Location is probably why. If this boat was in the PNW, it probably would have sold fairly quickly. Price should always be a willing buyer and willing seller.
It sounds as if the boat may be close to your location--if so, go look at it, send some of us or post the photos you take.
Generally the process of sale is: see boat, make offer, agree on price, put a deposit of 10% (refundable) and arrange for Sea Trial and survey. Pay for the boat, and have a great big smile on your face when you trailer it home! It is very possible that in this case the agreement is a "hand shake", but I am aware of even some C Dory sales where someone came along and made a higher offer, where there was no written sales agreement.
Full camper canvas is somewhere in the $2500 on up category, and gives you an "extra room". It is nice when there is rain. Also zip out windows with screens make sitting out when the bugs are out is a good idea.
Find out if the boat has been shrink wrapped or stored inside during the winter. You are in an area of freeze thaw cycles. This could cause issues. If the cockpit has been dry with the cockpit cover this may suffice.
The dry weight is right out of the brochure, and is slightly misleading. Basically figure the boats are 4500# on the trailer, some can be over 5,000# loaded for cruising, and a very light boat on the trailer is 4,000 #. This may make a difference in tow vehicle.
The removable cockpit floor is a very nice feature. I consider this a plus. It sounds as if a newer chart plotter and sounder which is good. A Bimini is good, the inside hand rails are good, I like the Wallas stove. The Bimini is good. A cockpit slant back cover (I believe this is what he is referring to.) is good.
You will have to make your or have a surveyor made the determination about other issues. You have had some good advice.
The boat has been for sale for some time. Location is probably why. If this boat was in the PNW, it probably would have sold fairly quickly. Price should always be a willing buyer and willing seller.
It sounds as if the boat may be close to your location--if so, go look at it, send some of us or post the photos you take.
Generally the process of sale is: see boat, make offer, agree on price, put a deposit of 10% (refundable) and arrange for Sea Trial and survey. Pay for the boat, and have a great big smile on your face when you trailer it home! It is very possible that in this case the agreement is a "hand shake", but I am aware of even some C Dory sales where someone came along and made a higher offer, where there was no written sales agreement.
cattlejack
Member
Thanks to everyone for their input
One of my concerns is that the owner has left the boat in the water over a couple of Maryland winters. He stated that he lives close to the boat and always went down to check on it, he even sent me a photo of his boat covered in snow and surrounded by I've. Not so sure about that idea.
What do you guys think of that plan?
One of my concerns is that the owner has left the boat in the water over a couple of Maryland winters. He stated that he lives close to the boat and always went down to check on it, he even sent me a photo of his boat covered in snow and surrounded by I've. Not so sure about that idea.
What do you guys think of that plan?
cattlejack
Member
Make that surrounded in ice
As long as the bilge remained free of water and ice, then OK. If there was any water in the core...could lead to delamination.
I would definitely hire a good marine surveyor to go over the bottom of the boat with a fine tooth comb...make that a good moisture meter and phenolic hammer, looking for signs of delamination.
If there was no water in the core, then no problem.
I would definitely hire a good marine surveyor to go over the bottom of the boat with a fine tooth comb...make that a good moisture meter and phenolic hammer, looking for signs of delamination.
If there was no water in the core, then no problem.
Micahbigsur@msn.com
New member
Our boat was originally in Maryland, because of water intrusion into the hull and due to freeze cycles it needed major repairs, I'm sure it cost a prior owner a fortune to have it done by the pros.
Bob is right, get the best surveyer you can find and have him be very thorough!
I hope this boat will be the one for you, a whole new adventure.!
Bob is right, get the best surveyer you can find and have him be very thorough!
I hope this boat will be the one for you, a whole new adventure.!
Most boat owners are aware of the need for periodic maintenance, mostly
engine related. Some just wait for 'a problem' then address it.
The most competent mariners I've encountered have established routines
for not only the power plant but other systems on the boat as well including
the hull itself. Tho the exact routines may differ on the hard, in a slip/mooring
or underway, the goal is identical: prevention or at least early detection of
real or potential problems.
Aye
Grandma used to say, "If it's your baby, act accordingly."
engine related. Some just wait for 'a problem' then address it.
The most competent mariners I've encountered have established routines
for not only the power plant but other systems on the boat as well including
the hull itself. Tho the exact routines may differ on the hard, in a slip/mooring
or underway, the goal is identical: prevention or at least early detection of
real or potential problems.
Aye
Grandma used to say, "If it's your baby, act accordingly."
cattlejack
Member
Owner states a recent bottom paint. Could that alone be hiding anything?
Will mosture in the core be harder to detect? He's left in in the water over Maryland winters, but that again, so are hundreds of other boats down here
Will mosture in the core be harder to detect? He's left in in the water over Maryland winters, but that again, so are hundreds of other boats down here
cattlejack":28nvmr4p said:
Yes, if there was bottom damage which was poorly repaired. There should've been an epoxy barrier coat applied before the first bottom paint was put on.
Yes, it will defeat the moisture meter to some extent on the outside, but not on the inside, where it may be more important. The floor boards should be removed, and the hull under them be tested both by moisture meter and phenolic hammer.
I had sent you the name of an excellent Marine surveyor, who does FLIR and this boat would be a candidate for the use of FLIR.