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power while on the hook
- Thread starter evilskier
- Start date
We can go for two nights with power to spare. We leave the fridge on, use cabin lights sparingly, but run the laptop almost continuously. We also use the stereo. You will find there are lots of cabin light options. We tend to use the dining lights at night while on the hook and then the lights in the head and v-berth only when necessary. I do have to say, that was during the summer when the need for cabin lights at night was not so necessary.
Island Ranger
New member
When we started cruising, we went 2 days (nights) without trouble - we thought. When we tried to stretch to 3 days - we had dead house batteries (Wallas wouldn't work!). Always had the separate engine battery to start the diesel, so no problem.
But, the batteries started to get weaker - wouldn't hold the charge for as long, wouldn't take as much of a charge. That's when I learned (from the C-Brats!) you shouldn't let the batteries get below 50%. I never watched that before. I wound up replacing the batteries, now have added solar, and when there is even the slightest bit of light - I'm able to keep the batteries charged.
Recharging with the engine is dependant on time run, and how fast - and how low the batteries are. At 1700 rpm, we hardly recharge at all. The batteries take a charge quickly when they are low,but getting the last 10-15% takes a long while.
I'd recommend calculating your usage (anchor light at 10 watts eats almost 10 Ah when run for 10 hours, Fridge uses 10 Ah per day here in the Pacific North West, etc) and comparing it to your storage capacity. I added two more house batteries (now have 4, each at 105 Ah so I have 210 Ah to use) to survive the raining days of no sun.
Mac
But, the batteries started to get weaker - wouldn't hold the charge for as long, wouldn't take as much of a charge. That's when I learned (from the C-Brats!) you shouldn't let the batteries get below 50%. I never watched that before. I wound up replacing the batteries, now have added solar, and when there is even the slightest bit of light - I'm able to keep the batteries charged.
Recharging with the engine is dependant on time run, and how fast - and how low the batteries are. At 1700 rpm, we hardly recharge at all. The batteries take a charge quickly when they are low,but getting the last 10-15% takes a long while.
I'd recommend calculating your usage (anchor light at 10 watts eats almost 10 Ah when run for 10 hours, Fridge uses 10 Ah per day here in the Pacific North West, etc) and comparing it to your storage capacity. I added two more house batteries (now have 4, each at 105 Ah so I have 210 Ah to use) to survive the raining days of no sun.
Mac
naut-a-clue
New member
hi guys, i"m the proud new owner of hull 15 now residing in anacotes wa , but soon coming home to auburn ca on her trailer. mood magic. [soon to be renamed nautaclue, is powered by a 110 yanmar and came equiped with an inverter. however after being plugged into shore power for 20 plus hrs, with the battery charger activated and with the inverter going thru all of its stages, bulk charge stand buy, etc,etc up to 13.6 amps the next morning upon attempting to make a cup of coffee [using said inverter] it imediatle went to low voltage default . i have 4[count them] house batteries . can one bad battery cause my inverter to refuse to invert even if the other 3 are charged to 13.6 volts i have a great generator that will be on board in the future and i can see my frustration with the invertor turning into a great deal for one of you guys that mite want one. i don'tconsider myself a mechanical neophyte but electronics has never been my trump suit help a brand new 25 ranger owner out and let me know what you think,, skipper steve, i have nauticlue
matt_unique
New member
Is it me or are we seeing a sharp increase in Ranger owners? Well I too love the boats!
As for power, I have just three "regular" batteries on my Tomcat. I have only done single overnight stays on the hook so far this year. We had the cabin lights on, demand water pump, and the stereo running. We did not have any problems at all (as you would expect). I have not tested the limits of the number of nights doable on the batteries without a recharge.
As for power, I have just three "regular" batteries on my Tomcat. I have only done single overnight stays on the hook so far this year. We had the cabin lights on, demand water pump, and the stereo running. We did not have any problems at all (as you would expect). I have not tested the limits of the number of nights doable on the batteries without a recharge.
Brats, This is my favorite subject. After 20 years of boating, live aboard on the hook, hardly ever staying in a marina. I think with the help of this site, I think we have solved the problems. We go to the Bahamas for up to three months at a time. At one time we used 8D batteries and had to replace them every two year. We had a 12,000 watt Kohler on one boat, we went so far as to buy a 200 amp sears charger. I used a smart charger ( trickle charger) when the boat was stored. None of this worked well . in fact the big charger probably helped ruin the batteries. Batteries put out power for hours and it takes hours to put the power back in. It cooks the water out of the batteries and causes them to sulfate much faster.
The new boat , which we pick up on the 22nd is coming with two group 27 AGM for engine, thruster. The house batteries are Group 31 AGM. I ordered a 40 amp smart charger that you can pick the type of batteries and the amount of charge to any set of batteries.
Thanks to Mac, I have two 130 amp solar panels to mount as soon as I get home with the boat, along with a regulator that allows me to see the condition of the charge at any time. It will charge in three stages. These are sealed batteries that can lay in any position and never have to add water. They will take a faster charge without damage and will hold a charge when idle for up to two years.
I can hardly wait to get out on the hook in sunny Florida and the Bahamas to see how this new set up is going to work. We plan on living aboard for 5 months. With very few stays in a marina. Might need to pay to park the dink here and there just to go shopping for supplys.
If anyone has a cheaper way to spend the winter where it is warm and seafood is cheap then I would be interested. The sea food is right over the gunnels.
captd
The new boat , which we pick up on the 22nd is coming with two group 27 AGM for engine, thruster. The house batteries are Group 31 AGM. I ordered a 40 amp smart charger that you can pick the type of batteries and the amount of charge to any set of batteries.
Thanks to Mac, I have two 130 amp solar panels to mount as soon as I get home with the boat, along with a regulator that allows me to see the condition of the charge at any time. It will charge in three stages. These are sealed batteries that can lay in any position and never have to add water. They will take a faster charge without damage and will hold a charge when idle for up to two years.
I can hardly wait to get out on the hook in sunny Florida and the Bahamas to see how this new set up is going to work. We plan on living aboard for 5 months. With very few stays in a marina. Might need to pay to park the dink here and there just to go shopping for supplys.
If anyone has a cheaper way to spend the winter where it is warm and seafood is cheap then I would be interested. The sea food is right over the gunnels.
captd
captd":305iocc2 said:Thanks to Mac, I have two 130 amp solar panels to mount as soon as I get home with the boat, along with a regulator that allows me to see the condition
captd
Two 130 amp solar panels?
Maybe two 130 watt which might give you 20 amps in ideal conditions.
journey on
New member
A couple of comments.
First, Journey On has a Norcold refrig, which takes ~5 amps when running. When we boated up in the Pacific Northwest during the summer, the duty cycle was 50% (half the time on, half the time on.) That's an average of ~2.5 amp-hrs/hr. For 24 hrs that's 60 amp-hrs. Having had several refrig's on boats, that's typical. If you estimate only 10 amp-hrs, you will run out of battery quickly.
Next, I installed solar panels for the house, using 180 watt panels. They're 3' by 5'. Having 2 of these on a 25' boat takes up a lot of space. And on a boat, pointing them normal to the sunline so they give max output is hard to do. I would suggest taking a small Honda generator, which is quiet, and run it for an hour a day. Figure out what time is easiest for you, morning or early afternoon, and you will not bother anyone.
Last, make sure you know the amp-hr capacity of your batteries. Mac of Island Ranger is the only one who calculated his boat's amp-hr availability.
Boris
First, Journey On has a Norcold refrig, which takes ~5 amps when running. When we boated up in the Pacific Northwest during the summer, the duty cycle was 50% (half the time on, half the time on.) That's an average of ~2.5 amp-hrs/hr. For 24 hrs that's 60 amp-hrs. Having had several refrig's on boats, that's typical. If you estimate only 10 amp-hrs, you will run out of battery quickly.
Next, I installed solar panels for the house, using 180 watt panels. They're 3' by 5'. Having 2 of these on a 25' boat takes up a lot of space. And on a boat, pointing them normal to the sunline so they give max output is hard to do. I would suggest taking a small Honda generator, which is quiet, and run it for an hour a day. Figure out what time is easiest for you, morning or early afternoon, and you will not bother anyone.
Last, make sure you know the amp-hr capacity of your batteries. Mac of Island Ranger is the only one who calculated his boat's amp-hr availability.
Boris
I would agree with Journey On about the refigerator in the Pacific North West. We figure 60 amp hours a day for just hat. We have changed over to LED anchor lights, and use one or two cabin lights for 3 to 4 hours during the night, plus the Wallas stove for heat (in the PNW) and cooking. In both of our boats, we have 2 group 31 AGM's for the refigerator/inverter batteries. We have a separate engine start battery, and then a house battery for other uses. With this type of setup, during about 2 months cruising full time last summer, we never used our generator, even though we carried it along. (We stayed at marinas 25 to 30% of the time--and at those nights, used the battery charger --40 amp multiple battery types).
We feel very comforatble with 12 volt systems. Overall, I have lived aboard boats for 13 years, and cruised full time for 8 years--first long distance cruising in 1962. During this time we learned that you have to have ample battery capacity, and ample charging capacity for the batteries.
In a diesel boat, you can alway add a second high out put alternator on the engine--(be sure it has adequate ventillation, and be sure that you use a "smart regulator"). On our larger boats, we had need for 2 to 4 hours a day of the genset for water making, holding plate refigeration etc--and had charging capacity of 130 to 150 amps additional either from an alternator on the genset and or an inverter which also had a 130 amp battery charger.
I have not used large solar panels or wind generators--feeling that using diesel generators and adequate batteries made more sense. This may not be true currently. I have seen a very few boats which with large solar cell pannels plus two wind generators have been able to keep us with all of their electrical needs. (One such boat was a sailing cat, where the entire area over the cockpit was dedicated to solar panels--and there was a mechanism to move the panels to partly fallow the sun) In this case the area of the solar pannels was about 10 x 15 feet.
We feel very comforatble with 12 volt systems. Overall, I have lived aboard boats for 13 years, and cruised full time for 8 years--first long distance cruising in 1962. During this time we learned that you have to have ample battery capacity, and ample charging capacity for the batteries.
In a diesel boat, you can alway add a second high out put alternator on the engine--(be sure it has adequate ventillation, and be sure that you use a "smart regulator"). On our larger boats, we had need for 2 to 4 hours a day of the genset for water making, holding plate refigeration etc--and had charging capacity of 130 to 150 amps additional either from an alternator on the genset and or an inverter which also had a 130 amp battery charger.
I have not used large solar panels or wind generators--feeling that using diesel generators and adequate batteries made more sense. This may not be true currently. I have seen a very few boats which with large solar cell pannels plus two wind generators have been able to keep us with all of their electrical needs. (One such boat was a sailing cat, where the entire area over the cockpit was dedicated to solar panels--and there was a mechanism to move the panels to partly fallow the sun) In this case the area of the solar pannels was about 10 x 15 feet.
journey on
New member
Well, on our sailboat I also added a 100 amp generator. The problem is, lead acid batteries can't accept max charge for more than a couple of minutes. The charging amps follow a declining curve (decaying exponential,) where you may start out at 40 amps, and after 1/2 hr, it's down to 20 and another 1/2 hr, hour down to 5 amps, which goes on for another hour. And that only give you about 90% charge. To get this on a sailboat, you're running a 30 horse diesel, with a 100 amp generator. On a Ranger, that's a 150 hp diesel, unless you spent $3500 on a genset. That's why I got a relatively cheap small gasoline generator, for charging batteries only. It's cost is 1/6 that of the diesel generator, it's a lot smaller and a couple gallons of gas lasts forever.
Main engine hours are precious to me, and I'll do a lot to save them. I understand that diesel engines are good for at least 6000 hrs, and a small Honda generator means that every hr on the main engine is spent moving the boat.
As for solar panels, I ran some numbers for the 170 WATT BP panels I used for the house. They are typical for high quality commercial panels. Fixed and pointed at the sun (in my case, that means tilted up at 32 deg,) and pointed south ( max output for fixed panels,) they give 1.8 amp-hrs/day/sq. ft (max, summer solstice.) For a typical boat installation where the panels lay flat, the output is reduced to 1.2 amp-hrs/day/sq. ft.
That means to support a 60 amp-hr/day refrigerator, you need ~50 sq ft of solar panel. That's 5' X 10', every day ,not shaded, from 9 AM to 3 PM. Again, I submit that a generator makes more sense.
Boris
Main engine hours are precious to me, and I'll do a lot to save them. I understand that diesel engines are good for at least 6000 hrs, and a small Honda generator means that every hr on the main engine is spent moving the boat.
As for solar panels, I ran some numbers for the 170 WATT BP panels I used for the house. They are typical for high quality commercial panels. Fixed and pointed at the sun (in my case, that means tilted up at 32 deg,) and pointed south ( max output for fixed panels,) they give 1.8 amp-hrs/day/sq. ft (max, summer solstice.) For a typical boat installation where the panels lay flat, the output is reduced to 1.2 amp-hrs/day/sq. ft.
That means to support a 60 amp-hr/day refrigerator, you need ~50 sq ft of solar panel. That's 5' X 10', every day ,not shaded, from 9 AM to 3 PM. Again, I submit that a generator makes more sense.
Boris
Tad and Toby Jackson
New member
captd,
Are you going to make it to FL again this year? Toby and I are going to make another New Year's run on the St. John's River. Will launch again probably on Lake Harney and make our way up to Jax. We still have some rivers that we have not explored fully and we love the SJ at that time of year. Where are you planning on this year?
Tad
Are you going to make it to FL again this year? Toby and I are going to make another New Year's run on the St. John's River. Will launch again probably on Lake Harney and make our way up to Jax. We still have some rivers that we have not explored fully and we love the SJ at that time of year. Where are you planning on this year?
Tad
Tad,
Yup, we are on our way right now to the factory in Kent to pick up the new Lucky Fin. When I get it home I will add all my goodies, Leaving home after Thanksgiving. Our plan is to use Astor as our base. Good to store truck and trailer. We will spend a lot of time on the St. Johns all the way to Jax. Down the intercoastal, to Palm Beach. At that point we have to decide whether to cross over to the Abacos or to continue around to the Keys, up the Gulf side, across the barge canal, back to Palm Beach than on to the Abacos. We have a lot of catching up to do.
Hope to see you guys this winter, Maybe we can put a few miles on together. We want to go to all the springs we can get into.
Marc from Wefing Marine is flying into Seattle today, Hope to see him shortly. I'm trying to decide if I should give him a bad time. Anyone got any complaints I can pass on? He probably won't get to read this until he gets back home. He should be good for a free dinner. I will post right here if he does or not. If he has his laptop along he might get the idea. :wink: :thup :wink
captd
Yup, we are on our way right now to the factory in Kent to pick up the new Lucky Fin. When I get it home I will add all my goodies, Leaving home after Thanksgiving. Our plan is to use Astor as our base. Good to store truck and trailer. We will spend a lot of time on the St. Johns all the way to Jax. Down the intercoastal, to Palm Beach. At that point we have to decide whether to cross over to the Abacos or to continue around to the Keys, up the Gulf side, across the barge canal, back to Palm Beach than on to the Abacos. We have a lot of catching up to do.
Hope to see you guys this winter, Maybe we can put a few miles on together. We want to go to all the springs we can get into.
Marc from Wefing Marine is flying into Seattle today, Hope to see him shortly. I'm trying to decide if I should give him a bad time. Anyone got any complaints I can pass on? He probably won't get to read this until he gets back home. He should be good for a free dinner. I will post right here if he does or not. If he has his laptop along he might get the idea. :wink: :thup :wink
captd
akbpilot":wo4r4qp7 said:captd":wo4r4qp7 said:Thanks to Mac, I have two 130 amp solar panels to mount as soon as I get home with the boat, along with a regulator that allows me to see the condition
captd
Two 130 amp solar panels?
Maybe two 130 watt which might give you 20 amps in ideal
conditions.
Some time my giant brain works faster then my hunt and pecker fingers.
:embarrased
One thing I don't understand is: My pickup generater has an output of like 175 amps, yet when going down the road with a refrigerator on DC it will run the house battery down and run my pickup batteries down as well. A previous post said it all. Makes no difference how big the charge is, the batteries will only accept so much. Dometic and Norcold both will tell you
that is true. Why the make a three way, I don't know.
captd
marvin4239
New member
One thing I don't understand is: My pickup generater has an output of like 175 amps, yet when going down the road with a refrigerator on DC it will run the house battery down and run my pickup batteries down as well. A previous post said it all. Makes no difference how big the charge is, the batteries will only accept so much. Dometic and Norcold both will tell you
that is true. Why the make a three way, I don't know.
captd[/quote]
Funny you mention your boat running down your pickup battery. I just experienced the same thing with my Jeep connected to my pickup. I ran a circuit from my Cherokee to my boat to power my Waeco freezer. I only left it connected while the Cherokee was running and it still ran down the Jeep battery on a 800 mile trip. I'm beginning to think the added load may have damaged my alternator in the Jeep? On the subject of the Dometic 3/way I had one in and RV and found that it wouldn't run on 110 Volts if the house battery was dead or disconnected. If I remember correctly the control circuit for the Dometic came directly from the battery.
that is true. Why the make a three way, I don't know.
captd[/quote]
Funny you mention your boat running down your pickup battery. I just experienced the same thing with my Jeep connected to my pickup. I ran a circuit from my Cherokee to my boat to power my Waeco freezer. I only left it connected while the Cherokee was running and it still ran down the Jeep battery on a 800 mile trip. I'm beginning to think the added load may have damaged my alternator in the Jeep? On the subject of the Dometic 3/way I had one in and RV and found that it wouldn't run on 110 Volts if the house battery was dead or disconnected. If I remember correctly the control circuit for the Dometic came directly from the battery.
Here's a source that I'm sure an answer your questions about why the refrigerators running on 12 v can run down your car battery while driving:
Allan Crane @ gasrefrigeration.net
Joe. :teeth :thup
Allan Crane @ gasrefrigeration.net
Joe. :teeth :thup
Tad and Toby Jackson
New member
captd,
Great to hear you will be down our way. We will be launching on Lake Harney on Sat. 27 Dec. and heading north up to or near Jax. We have to return back to Harney on Sat. 3, Jan. We too want to hit all the springs this year. We also want to take the canal to the Rodman Dam and make it down the Ocklawaha to the Harris chain of lakes. We would love to be able to put a few miles on with you and the Mrs. Let's stay in touch. When you head down the ICW, we would love for you to stop for a cold one or two and maybe a dinner if you want. We are right on the ICW across from MM 77 just south of the State Rd. 520 Bridge from Cocoa to Merritt Is.
We are planning a 15 day trip the last two weeks of next May '09. We'll leave our dock and head south down to the Keys and then back up the Gulf ICW and take the Okeechobee Waterway back to the Atlantic ICW and then back home. If you all decide to head that way before the Bahamas, I will pick you brain for some suggested anchorages. We prefer to drop the hook rather than stay at marinas, so we will be looking for some quiet coves or creeks to stay in.
What kind of craft is the Lucky Fin? It's exciting to get a new boat!
Tad
Great to hear you will be down our way. We will be launching on Lake Harney on Sat. 27 Dec. and heading north up to or near Jax. We have to return back to Harney on Sat. 3, Jan. We too want to hit all the springs this year. We also want to take the canal to the Rodman Dam and make it down the Ocklawaha to the Harris chain of lakes. We would love to be able to put a few miles on with you and the Mrs. Let's stay in touch. When you head down the ICW, we would love for you to stop for a cold one or two and maybe a dinner if you want. We are right on the ICW across from MM 77 just south of the State Rd. 520 Bridge from Cocoa to Merritt Is.
We are planning a 15 day trip the last two weeks of next May '09. We'll leave our dock and head south down to the Keys and then back up the Gulf ICW and take the Okeechobee Waterway back to the Atlantic ICW and then back home. If you all decide to head that way before the Bahamas, I will pick you brain for some suggested anchorages. We prefer to drop the hook rather than stay at marinas, so we will be looking for some quiet coves or creeks to stay in.
What kind of craft is the Lucky Fin? It's exciting to get a new boat!
Tad
Sometimes I wonder how we can keep the threads on track? Maybe PM? Back to the questions about batteries, charging and refrigeration: Boris, you can use an alternator regulataor by pass--these used to be very common, and Spa Creek out of Annapolis made them for years. You had to moniter the voltage, but it would allow fully charging batteries. Basically this used a rayostat to control the field voltage of the alternator and you could control the output to the battery system. Modern smart chargers (not the one which comes with the diesel engine alternator) will allow very effecient charging up to 85 % capacity.
Using large battery banks (1200 amp hours) and running up to 300 amps of 12 volt charging, for 2 to 4 hours a day, we had plenty of power ot run autopilots, nav gear (radar, Sat Nav, etc, lights, ) for the other hours of the day, without any other source of power generator.
Remember that there are two types of 12 volt refigeration. The compressor refigerators run from 3 to 5 amps per hour. The more common RV ammonia "three way" refigerators, use a heater on propane, or a heating element on 110 volts or 12 volts, and these will run down batteries very quickly since they use aobut 15 amps on 12 volts.
We run a separate 12 volt circuit (plus and minus directly from the charging circuit of the tow vehicle to the battery bank of the boat). I don't know how others have approached the problem of a ground, but if you use the trailer hitch, there will not be a ground circuit to the boat, and thus the battery will not be charged.
Using large battery banks (1200 amp hours) and running up to 300 amps of 12 volt charging, for 2 to 4 hours a day, we had plenty of power ot run autopilots, nav gear (radar, Sat Nav, etc, lights, ) for the other hours of the day, without any other source of power generator.
Remember that there are two types of 12 volt refigeration. The compressor refigerators run from 3 to 5 amps per hour. The more common RV ammonia "three way" refigerators, use a heater on propane, or a heating element on 110 volts or 12 volts, and these will run down batteries very quickly since they use aobut 15 amps on 12 volts.
We run a separate 12 volt circuit (plus and minus directly from the charging circuit of the tow vehicle to the battery bank of the boat). I don't know how others have approached the problem of a ground, but if you use the trailer hitch, there will not be a ground circuit to the boat, and thus the battery will not be charged.
Tad and Toby Jackson
New member
Dr. Bob,
You are entirely correct! I should have been more mindfull of the subject of the thread and those interested in the information being shared. In my defense, I hadn't seen a post from captd in awhile and I got carried away. I will try and keep my non-thread communications to personal messages in the future.
Tad
You are entirely correct! I should have been more mindfull of the subject of the thread and those interested in the information being shared. In my defense, I hadn't seen a post from captd in awhile and I got carried away. I will try and keep my non-thread communications to personal messages in the future.
Tad