Permatrim slowing me down?

B

breausaw

New member
I am thinking of removing the Permatrim on my Honda; think it’s slowing me down. I have raised the motor up a notch and still the permatrim is submerged at speed. If I lift the motor the final notch I don’t think it will make any difference.

I was wondering if anyone else with trim tabs has removed their permatrim, and if so what performance characteristics have you noticed.

Don’t think I’ll have any problem with the removal process; and for the initial trial I’ll just cover the cavitations plate holes with waterproof tape.

So, any thoughts…I’m sure there are.

As always I appreciate the feedback.
 
The permatrim should not slow you down, the plates on my engines are just below the waterline when under way. I'll be interested to see if you find any difference.
 
Some numbers would help: wot rpm & speed' cruising speed at 4200 rpm, and how you have the engine trimmed. It the Permatrims are submerged they will probably slow you down a knot or two. They should be right at the surface at cruise speed. Yes the combo of tabs & PermTrims improve the ride into chop.
 
I would say that over all permatrim has helped to increase my speed because of stopping the pounding. My trim tabs levels the boat at speed but never did a lot to keep the nose down and boat from pounding. If the permatrim is not submerged some I don't think it could do what it is designed to do, just like the trim tabs need to be submerged. My speed is very effected by weight, wind and water conditions. Good luck with your test.
 
I just put a brand new 90A Suzuki on my boat, tried it with the Permatrim, then took it off, I don't miss it at all, but I do have trim tabs. The 90A is 75 lbs. lighter than the 90 it replaced, and my boat floats higher in the stern. Just seems like something my boat doesn't need and there is definitely more drag. Just my 2 cents worth.
Roger
 
Jay,

On my 22, the Permatrim was kind of optional. The main difference was how efficiently it would cruise at 12-14 mph. With the Permatrim, the boat/motor woud do very well at 12-14 mph. With it off it moved that speed up the 14-16 mph. For me it was a matter of engine loading. Will it slow you down, probably, drag is drag and a Permatrim in some respects is added drag.

On my 25, it is a different story. The trim tabs are not big enough and I don't think they can be big enough without getting in the way of something. The Permatrim adds the extra control to lift the stern up.
 
I just added Permatrims to my twin Honda’s last summer & already had Bennent trim tabs. Main reason I wanted them was for the heavy loading I do when on an extended Alaska cruise where I carry along with all the other stuff an additional 60 gal of fuel all in the very back of the cockpit. With the Bennet Trim Tabs fully down still couldn’t keep bow down as much as I wanted for getting on plane & into chop. Like Tom said there is some additional drag. I had Propulse adjustable pitch 4 blade composite props that were already adjusted for the highest rpm possible at max throttle. I went from just making specs, 5100 rpm at the high altitude of Yellowstone lake to 4800 rpm, so had to buy new props. Changed to a larger diameter lower pitch 10 x 12 stainless prop & am now set perfect for either the high altitude low weight or sea level with max weight. Before the Permatrims have had ventilation problems with whatever props I used depending on how the boat was loaded. Now there is absolutely none no matter how I distribute the weight. The end results of adding the Pematrims & new props lowered the speed I start to plane & increased my max speed about 2 mph. So, no doubt there is increased drag with the Permatrims, but that is overcome in my case by their allowing me to get a better boat trim which actually increasing its efficiency going through the water giving me quicker planning, higher speed & better mileage

Jay.
 
I have a Permatrim that I purchased for my boat (1993-22') w/75 Merc 4 stroke I will give to anyone who wants it. If I remember correctly, I had to run 3 or 4 hundred more RPM'S to maintain the same speed without them, also top end speed was lower.

Most of us have to much stern weight, large 4 stroke engines, house batteries extra gear in lasseretts etc.

I never had a problem getting the bow down until I replaced my perfectly good 2 stroke 70 HP Johnson with the 4 stroke Merc., added two group 31 house batteries in the stern, and air conditioning all this to please the First Mate.

After I moved some weight forward & got my boat back in balance my problem went away. Now I can get the bow down on the Half/Pint at most any speed low enough to bow steer, without undo stress on the engine & transom without trim tabs & the Permatrim.

In my opinion if your boat is rigged correctly you don't need them.

Yes my engine is set up at the right height.

Sam
 
localboy":1sxzza1d said:
Ah, the other eternal question; To Permatrim or NOT to Permatrim... :lol:



I still haven't decided. :?
Click to expand...

I really depends on three other factors:
1) Singles or twins?
2) Fuel injected or carbureted? And
3) Rollers vs. bunks on the trailer? :wink:
 
rogerbum":xiymwwxg said:
localboy":xiymwwxg said:
Ah, the other eternal question; To Permatrim or NOT to Permatrim... :lol:



I still haven't decided. :?
Click to expand...

I really depends on three other factors:
1) Singles or twins?
2) Fuel injected or carbureted? And
3) Rollers vs. bunks on the trailer? :wink:
Click to expand...

Exactly!!! :lol:

You forgot: Trailered or moored? :wink:
 
Rogerbum,

My boat with green trim is definitely more efficient than those ugly blue-trimmed ones! You forgot to mention that!

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
Sorry, kind of forgot about this post; been crazy busy lately.

From the response and reading others experiences along with my own fist hand knowledge; think I’ll forgo this experiment. Getting the bow down into the chop is a common necessity in PWS especially when leaving Whittier on most afternoons or evenings, I wouldn’t want to lose or minimize that ability even for one trip; the permatrim stays on.

Like many time in the past, the group has changed my mind from wasting my time.

Thanks again for the valuable feedback; what the heck was I thinking!
 
I have tried a variety of devices like." Permatrim " and they all add drag. I always ended up removing them.I waste of money in my opinion. Apparently trim tabs are highly rated by C-Dory owner's if you use a kicker, seems they do wonders in helping you get on plane and probably is a good investment.. Tug
 
Jeff Brigner":2mx4aeqm said:
I would say that over all permatrim has helped to increase my speed because of stopping the pounding. My trim tabs levels the boat at speed but never did a lot to keep the nose down and boat from pounding. If the permatrim is not submerged some I don't think it could do what it is designed to do, just like the trim tabs need to be submerged. My speed is very effected by weight, wind and water conditions. Good luck with your test.
Click to expand...

Although I agree with much which Jeff says, I disagree that both the trim tabs and Permatrims need to be submerged. If you look at the water flowing off the bottom of the transom, the trim tabs should be just on the surface of the water. Same for the Permatrim. It can exert the force needed to push the bow down, with out increasing drag by being pulled entirely thru the water submerged.

There is a difference in the effect of the Permatrim on the 22 and 25. My first 22 had no tabs or Permatrim. I rode on some which did, and noted the difference. Our second 22 has trim tabs, and already has a Doel Fin (not as good as the Permatrim) but we will use it for now and see if we have to adjust the motor height. Our 25 came with tabs, and we ran it for a season before putting on the Permatrim (before the AK trip)--definately better with the Permatrim. But that motor was a little too low, and the prop too high a pitch for the boat weight and motor HP. Definitely in both boats (22 and 25) it will make the ride better going into chop from my observations and experience in boats with and without.
 
localboy":zvcdvglu said:
rogerbum":zvcdvglu said:
localboy":zvcdvglu said:
Ah, the other eternal question; To Permatrim or NOT to Permatrim... :lol:



I still haven't decided. :?
Click to expand...

I really depends on three other factors:
1) Singles or twins?
2) Fuel injected or carbureted? And
3) Rollers vs. bunks on the trailer? :wink:
Click to expand...

Exactly!!! :lol:

You forgot: Trailered or moored? :wink:
Click to expand...

Oh My Word :crook You forgot the Boat Plug Inney or Outey :twisted:

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
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