Pain free insulation solution
- Thread starter B~C
- Start date
Captains Cat
New member
I think I'm gonna train centerline and secure. :lol:
Charlie
Charlie
flapbreaker
New member
Just wondering if there is still a condensation problem even with running the wallas stove? I guess I thought if you heated the cabin it wouldn't happen but what do I know I don't have a c-dory, yet.....
Captains Cat
New member
Flapbreaker, thanks for getting back on topic. To answer the question asked of me, "Train centerline and secure" refers to a gunner bring his barrels back to the centerline of the ship and "securing" or quitting. It is in no way an "x-rated" referral...
It means I'm done (thank goodness...)
It means I'm done (thank goodness...)
Flapbreaker-
The Wallas stove is externally vented, of course, so it shouldn't contribute to the moisture accumulation problem and the heat it provides should help keep the moisture from peoples' breathing from condensing.
However, it could still happen, depending on how warm the air is, how much moisture is in it, and how cold the windows and other parts of the cabin become.
Moving the air around with a fan will help distribute the heat and reduce any condensation up to a point, but part of the solution would probably be to vent some of the air through a cracked window or some other means to purge the excess humidity.
The need to purge will probably go up proportionately with the degree of coldness on the outside which creates the internal cold surfaces, since all surfaces cannot be treated with insulation.
Window coverings would very probably help.
I'm not sure if the Wallas gets its combustion air from the cabin or draws it it from outside, but I think the former is true. If so, you'd be getting some air purged this way as well as new air drawn in from openings, like through the passageway for the motor controls and electrical lines up under the galley out into the cockpit and under the gunnel on the starboard side at the rear of the cabin. Air drawn in here, however, would probably go directly to the stove, so maybe this wouldn't be a help after all (!)
At any rate, the heat helps reduce the condensation, but some ventilation is still necessary. I'd guess that each person puts out a least a quart or more of water vapor in an 8-hour period. Will have to look this up.
Joe.
The Wallas stove is externally vented, of course, so it shouldn't contribute to the moisture accumulation problem and the heat it provides should help keep the moisture from peoples' breathing from condensing.
However, it could still happen, depending on how warm the air is, how much moisture is in it, and how cold the windows and other parts of the cabin become.
Moving the air around with a fan will help distribute the heat and reduce any condensation up to a point, but part of the solution would probably be to vent some of the air through a cracked window or some other means to purge the excess humidity.
The need to purge will probably go up proportionately with the degree of coldness on the outside which creates the internal cold surfaces, since all surfaces cannot be treated with insulation.
Window coverings would very probably help.
I'm not sure if the Wallas gets its combustion air from the cabin or draws it it from outside, but I think the former is true. If so, you'd be getting some air purged this way as well as new air drawn in from openings, like through the passageway for the motor controls and electrical lines up under the galley out into the cockpit and under the gunnel on the starboard side at the rear of the cabin. Air drawn in here, however, would probably go directly to the stove, so maybe this wouldn't be a help after all (!)
At any rate, the heat helps reduce the condensation, but some ventilation is still necessary. I'd guess that each person puts out a least a quart or more of water vapor in an 8-hour period. Will have to look this up.
Joe.
Here's the info on the moisture output:
Water vapour is produced in relatively large quantities from normal day to day activities - a 5 person household puts about 10 kg (22 lbs, or 11 quarts) of water into the air every day (without taking into account any heating) - i.e.
* breathing (asleep) 0.3 kg (1/3 quart)
* breathing (awake) 0.85 kg ( 9/10 quart)
* cooking 3 kg (3+ quarts)
* personal washing 1.0 kg (1 quart)
* washing and drying clothes 5.5 kg (6 quarts)
* heating - especially paraffin and flueless gas heaters. For every litre of paraffin (kerosene) burnt over one litre of moisture vaporises into air. Every carbon fuel produces some amount of water from combustion.
* (1 kg of water equates to about 1 litre)
So I'm off somewhat on the nighttime output, but about 1/3 quart of moisture per person can sure turn a C-Dory (or any similar vessel) into a 'Wet Cave" by the next morning. Worth dealing with and eliminating!
Water vapour is produced in relatively large quantities from normal day to day activities - a 5 person household puts about 10 kg (22 lbs, or 11 quarts) of water into the air every day (without taking into account any heating) - i.e.
* breathing (asleep) 0.3 kg (1/3 quart)
* breathing (awake) 0.85 kg ( 9/10 quart)
* cooking 3 kg (3+ quarts)
* personal washing 1.0 kg (1 quart)
* washing and drying clothes 5.5 kg (6 quarts)
* heating - especially paraffin and flueless gas heaters. For every litre of paraffin (kerosene) burnt over one litre of moisture vaporises into air. Every carbon fuel produces some amount of water from combustion.
* (1 kg of water equates to about 1 litre)
So I'm off somewhat on the nighttime output, but about 1/3 quart of moisture per person can sure turn a C-Dory (or any similar vessel) into a 'Wet Cave" by the next morning. Worth dealing with and eliminating!
A
Anonymous
Guest
...you gize are funny as hell :thup 
Well, I have a little more experience to report on my carpet lining on RF...
This trip (with two peeps not just my bod' makin moisture) really saturated areas of the cabin interior with moisture!! Made me think, if I lived in the southeast, or kept baby at dock, the moisture would rot and mildew would certainly start growin profusely :x :? I would guess, if I had slathered some of the goop up under the carpet liner, it would not collect moisture so much.
Just having another 'bod on board, and a few days of thick moist air (though the rain was not pouring out there really) it was wet enough most days to feel like you were literally in a cloud :!: :crook
Back at home: Most trips, I take out a huge-assed-fan, set it in the doorway, and let it get dried-out that way-----and yes, the carpet lining dries very quickly :thup , but one does have a hard time getting it to dry out late in the season, or after a winter trip :!:
The carpet lining never gets wet to the point it gets you wet, just when ya press your fingers into it, do you notice the amount saturated in it's base :!: :? . Makes ya start worry'n' about it growin mold
:x
Only places it shows the start of mildew (the awful) black stuff) is where somethin' got spilled like a beverage. No problems with regular use, long as it's dried-out, maintained :!:
Sorry for the long-assed-post, but the 'redwood' idea, came from our house (built in 57 :xseek ) has that wood you can no longer get :rose2 was thinkin.... since we have to refit some new winders in it, replace the old redwood siding with regular-joe stuff ya get, and paint it :teeth I'll mill it down and line old RedFox :rose :smilep
Good quackin-with-yas again. I'll not run off for good.... :bat
Ken. I don't hardly get a drop of fish blood in baby, I keep them on a stringer, then place the catch into bags, so they don't mess up so much as even the cooler :disgust I told ya "M Stewart" and I are related :wink
Well, I have a little more experience to report on my carpet lining on RF...
This trip (with two peeps not just my bod' makin moisture) really saturated areas of the cabin interior with moisture!! Made me think, if I lived in the southeast, or kept baby at dock, the moisture would rot and mildew would certainly start growin profusely :x :? I would guess, if I had slathered some of the goop up under the carpet liner, it would not collect moisture so much.
Just having another 'bod on board, and a few days of thick moist air (though the rain was not pouring out there really) it was wet enough most days to feel like you were literally in a cloud :!: :crook
Back at home: Most trips, I take out a huge-assed-fan, set it in the doorway, and let it get dried-out that way-----and yes, the carpet lining dries very quickly :thup , but one does have a hard time getting it to dry out late in the season, or after a winter trip :!:
The carpet lining never gets wet to the point it gets you wet, just when ya press your fingers into it, do you notice the amount saturated in it's base :!: :? . Makes ya start worry'n' about it growin mold
:x Only places it shows the start of mildew (the awful) black stuff) is where somethin' got spilled like a beverage. No problems with regular use, long as it's dried-out, maintained
:!: Sorry for the long-assed-post, but the 'redwood' idea, came from our house (built in 57 :xseek ) has that wood you can no longer get :rose2 was thinkin.... since we have to refit some new winders in it, replace the old redwood siding with regular-joe stuff ya get, and paint it :teeth I'll mill it down and line old RedFox :rose :smilep
Good quackin-with-yas again. I'll not run off for good.... :bat
Ken. I don't hardly get a drop of fish blood in baby, I keep them on a stringer, then place the catch into bags, so they don't mess up so much as even the cooler :disgust I told ya "M Stewart" and I are related :wink
Hahaha! Now that's funny. What, you mean 'cuz you're both outlaws?
I had wondered about that myself at first, but I was wrong. When the boat is damp and the inside windows are foggy, the best thing to do is fire up the Wallas. It draws the combustion air from inside the cabin, and the same fan forces the air through the burner and out the exhaust. It really dries things up inside. I had this grand scheme at one time to pipe the warm air from the heater fan to the front windows for a defroster, but found it was never really needed. Once the Wallas is warmed up, the whole cabin dries out and stays dry. The v-berth is another story, but the stove does help it a little.
Don't push me, B~C. I ain't never poobed nobody yet, but I'm getting older and grouchier.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Man-o-live Mike, you got together dude :thup where the heck did old Duster go... kinda miss sparing with him :xnaughty
Sumpin I forgot to report, relates to the "Wallas question" (sort of) -
This trip out; the good old Force 10's thermocouple pooped-out :| wich meant I had to resort to my back-up heating system :smile the gen' and electric heater (no combustion process there :!: ) anyway- there was no difference in the amount of moisture on windows especially (AT ALL :!: ) I'm totally convinced there is NO difference between the Force 10 (which does consume air within the cabin) and the electric heater :!:
What I aim to do some day: lengthen RedFox's cabin, install a good wood stove (a small Jotul!) to make enough heat to leave the door open all the time. That is the only way I can see an end to the condensation problem...
Sumpin I forgot to report, relates to the "Wallas question" (sort of) -
This trip out; the good old Force 10's thermocouple pooped-out :| wich meant I had to resort to my back-up heating system :smile the gen' and electric heater (no combustion process there :!: ) anyway- there was no difference in the amount of moisture on windows especially (AT ALL :!: ) I'm totally convinced there is NO difference between the Force 10 (which does consume air within the cabin) and the electric heater :!:
What I aim to do some day: lengthen RedFox's cabin, install a good wood stove (a small Jotul!) to make enough heat to leave the door open all the time. That is the only way I can see an end to the condensation problem...
When I initially did my boat, I only treated the v-berth. I only have three nights in it with rain since then. On the three nights, the temperature was in the low 50's with rain, three people on board with the front window and front hatch cracked. On all mornings the v-berth was dry and the main cabin had condensation on the roof and walls. On one morning, I thought I could feel dampness up near the hatch in the v-berth but couldn't tell, it just felt different than the other surfaces. I did not run the Wallas stove at all during that time. During similar weather a month earlier, (the temperature was maybe 5 degrees cooler), with two people on board with the Wallas running almost constantly, everything was wet, not damp, wet.
That comparison sold me and I treated the entire cabin. I think the key was the spray on insulation and cracking the hatch and front window.
I don't think its perfect, but it was a dramatic improvement over no insulation at all.
That comparison sold me and I treated the entire cabin. I think the key was the spray on insulation and cracking the hatch and front window.
I don't think its perfect, but it was a dramatic improvement over no insulation at all.
A suggestion for those of you who use the v-berth and find it damp, despite the main cabin heater being on and the cabin dry:
Get a small computer power supply fan that takes about 0.12- 0.17 amp or so, a 3" diameter section of flexible clothes dryer tubing about 6' or so long, a 4" drain pipe grille intake, a reducer coupling, a big radiator clamp, some hangers of your choosing, some appropriate wiring and a switch, and install an air duct from the cabin into the far end of the v-berth.
The intake should probably be on the port side of the bulkhead to avoid the clutter behind the helm. If it weren't for the appearance issue, it would be nice to have the intake up near the ceiling or even above the stove, but most won't choose to have the tube showing that much.
The fan fits inside the grille intake, and can easily move enough air to exchange the air in the v-berth every 5 minutes or so. The tubing takes the air to the far end of the boat near the bow to be sure the v-berth is fully purged.
This arrangement should also warm up the v-berth considerably besides eliminating the condensation there.
I used this type of arrangement in my heater installation between the floor and Force 10 cabin heater to pump the cold air off the bottom of the cabin. I haven't had to do it to my v-berth, as it is rarely used for sleeping.
Al / Moose installed a hinged fan in the companionway to the v=berth for the same reason. It's a bigger fan, drawing about 2-3 amps, and is another good alternative. It's also quite a bit noisier than the computer fan.
Pictures of the tube / fan set up can be found here: (4 photos)
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php
And pictures of Al's set up can be found here:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php
Joe.
Get a small computer power supply fan that takes about 0.12- 0.17 amp or so, a 3" diameter section of flexible clothes dryer tubing about 6' or so long, a 4" drain pipe grille intake, a reducer coupling, a big radiator clamp, some hangers of your choosing, some appropriate wiring and a switch, and install an air duct from the cabin into the far end of the v-berth.
The intake should probably be on the port side of the bulkhead to avoid the clutter behind the helm. If it weren't for the appearance issue, it would be nice to have the intake up near the ceiling or even above the stove, but most won't choose to have the tube showing that much.
The fan fits inside the grille intake, and can easily move enough air to exchange the air in the v-berth every 5 minutes or so. The tubing takes the air to the far end of the boat near the bow to be sure the v-berth is fully purged.
This arrangement should also warm up the v-berth considerably besides eliminating the condensation there.
I used this type of arrangement in my heater installation between the floor and Force 10 cabin heater to pump the cold air off the bottom of the cabin. I haven't had to do it to my v-berth, as it is rarely used for sleeping.
Al / Moose installed a hinged fan in the companionway to the v=berth for the same reason. It's a bigger fan, drawing about 2-3 amps, and is another good alternative. It's also quite a bit noisier than the computer fan.
Pictures of the tube / fan set up can be found here: (4 photos)
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php
And pictures of Al's set up can be found here:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php
Joe.
flapbreaker
New member
Sea wolf,
I think you forgot to link the pictures cause there's nothing to click on.
I think you forgot to link the pictures cause there's nothing to click on.
flapbreaker
New member
Hey I just had an idea :idea . Do you think you could spray this stuff on the inside of an ice chest and increase it's r-value by much?