Not a vacation

A quick little comment, related to retiring - many have asked us why we rent a place to live now (and in most of our working years) and there are many reasons. But one simple one, since this is often an argument owners use for why they buy a house, is purely financial. There is a great myth that owning a house is a much better economic choice for most folks. And it is simply false, except for short time periods during the past ten years. Here's the fact:

A study by the National Multi-Housing Council, an industry trade association, determined that $100 put into a house in 1985 would have been worth $210 in 2008; in stocks, the same amount would have been $710. Even if your portfolio took a 50 percent hit in the past 18 months, the figure would still be $355 today. Plus, no repairs, maintaining, taxes, etc. etc. And, owners live under another myth - that they own the house - until the mortgage is paid off, they merely rent from the bank and have to pay all the upkeep and costs.

So when you retire - if you are thinking of moving into a smaller place, think of renting. And there are many other reasons to do so, also.
 
However... If a couple did not own or have a mortgage on their own home, there would be no such thing as the "honey do list". Retirees would not be able to use the expression that they are busier than when they were employed, because of the "honey-do list". The economy would be in further trouble because no one would be spending money at the hardware store for items for the "honey-do list". Wives would not have any time to themselves because the husband would not be in the garage working on the "honey-do" list. The more I contemplate the subject, what would be the point of retiring if there was not a "honey-do list"?
 
El and Bill":1payiaon said:
...
So when you retire - if you are thinking of moving into a smaller place, think of renting. And there are many other reasons to do so, also.
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I'm not locked into home ownership, but perhaps we've been fortunate. We have made money on each house we bought and sold (not always the case with stocks). Going just by our current home, the rental rates in our area would be nearly twice our monthly expenses (including upkeep, insurance, utilities, and homeowners association fees). Certainly, we had the outlay for building the home, but that is an investment that can be recovered should we decide to sell. With each rental check, you get a receipt (no equity). Seems to me that each successive month, the costs of owning vs renting get closer. There are other intangibles, such as being able to change the dwelling as you choose, the security of knowing that you will not be "booted out" at the whim of the owner.

Taking this further, why buy cars, boats, etc? It's more than the pride of ownership, for most people it makes fiscal sense. And these are depreciating assets.

I may be wrong, but isn't the National Multi-Housing Council a trade association representing apartment owners, managers, developers, lenders, etc? I would certainly expect their presentation to favor renting... it's in their best interest. Here's another link that suggests the benefits of owning vs renting, and also presents considerations of when it is better to rent.

http://michaelbluejay.com/house/rentvsbuy.html

Doing a search, one can find arguments for both sides, but the simple answer is: there are times when one must assess their personal situation to determine which is best for them.

Here's a checklist to see which might be better for you:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pfg/e10buyrent/checklist.html

Before the big BOOM, then bust in the housing market, conventional wisdom was that it is almost always better to own. That has certainly changed in today's housing market. But, if you own your home (no mortgage), that's another story.

And here's another thought: if you're ready to retire and you own your home, maybe it's time to sell it, go buy that cruising boat, and put the rest into the cruising kitty! 8) After all, retirement is about the freedom to do what you want, when you want. :mrgreen:

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
I'm with El and Bill on the renting. As I get older I am determined not to divide my time between boating and maintenance. I should have made that decision years ago.
 
This discussion is quite relevant for Dotty and me. She no longer can do the gardening she loved for so many years. There is less and less that I can do (or am allowed to do) around the house. On the other hand things like mowing the lawn are probably healthier than riding my bike. (I fell off the bike a couple years ago and now have an artificial elbow.) Anyway, when the time to move comes, we'll probably know. I do hope the apartment comes with a 20 foot slip.
MartyP
 
There are many sources for information on rent vs. buy, for folks considering changing houses. One interesting read is:

http://realestate.msn.com/article.aspx? ... d=19692887

Conventional wisdom is, in our opinion, often what advertisers push to further their own returns - and always requires a candid study. If one is selling a house today, and the issue is whether to put down a big down payment and buy another or invest your capital in the market - check the figures - except for the housing boom, market returns over time have handily beaten the rise in house prices.

Each couple (or individual) determines their requirements and rent vs. buy is not the same for any two folks - all we suggest is not to accept the standard "buying is better than renting" - do your calculations for your situation and find your own answer.
 
dotnmarty":n40cr8jg said:
localboy":n40cr8jg said:
Cops have a tendancy to retire...then die. I'm hoping to prove that statistic wrong.
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Wait a minute..ya mean if you're not a cop?....
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What I meant is they tend to die RIGHT after they retire. There have been many studies and of course, anecdotal stories abound. Its' not across the board but I can't tell you how many times I hear: "Man, and Joe just retired two years ago..."

I imagine it has to do with a) stress b) lousy diets c) strange/abnormal work hours d) lack of healthy excercise e) lots of cops drink TOO MUCH...did I mention stress?
 
Russ,

For those of us still toiling away - working for a living - with retirement in the all to distant future, we will enjoy our vacations in the meantime.

Wish we were close enough to provide limes and ice .... gotta avoid scurvy on those long ocean voyages as well as supplementing the beverages.

Hope you and Toni are enjoying yourselves. It was good seeing you guys on our recent trip to Friday Harbor and points beyond.

Take care,
Dan & Tanya
 
Thankyou for the kind responses to our new adventure. This has been a wonderful start, beginning with Friday Harbor, then chance meetings with many C-Brats on different islands, and meeting and sharing our love of boating with strangers, now new friends. Ending this trip with a relaxing time with Pat & Patty Anderson and David McKibben in Chuckanut Bay and then lunch and visit with Joe and Ruth in Bellingham.

Now on to new projects and new experiences, on and off the water. We look forward to continuing friendships and making new ones. See you soon.
 
Stuck in traffic on the commute home I got to thinking (always dangerous) as I crept a hundred feet and then stopped for a minute to creep another couple hundred - ad infinitum.

The following is a VERY broad generalization to be used as food for thought.

So... If we are fortunate and do not encounter accidents, adverse health or other calamities, we have about:

30,000 days on earth.
~6,600 from birth to 18 years old.
23,400 left.
~16,000 in a 44 year working life - take vacations!
~7300 left - more or less 20 years.

Obviously individuals can vary tremendously and live much longer in healthy bliss - and some unfortunately leave this existence way too soon.

That said, millions of people sit in the same sort of traffic snarls everyday - mostly not knowing better, caught up in the notion that to be happy one must have a successful career and all the consumer goods that signify such a lifestyle.

As detailed in this conversation, that's not necessarily so. Some might argue that learning to live frugally is a skill that should be practiced before retirement.

The idea that one does not have to have the latest consumer doo-dads and gizmos for the home - while enjoying some for the boat - can be liberating.

One example is cable/satellite TV. $85 a month was its cost - for years we 'had' to have it. January 2006 we sent the cable box back, saving that $85 plus gaining time to read and enjoy other activities without the incessant chatter of 'the box'. Sure, we rent movies and watch those. Heck we even have movie nights with several couples we know. Gotta get the use out of that BIG screen TV that I bought in 2003.

To those that are yet to retire - learn to live a great life while simplifying and spending less.

To those that have been fortunate enough to retire early, bless you!

To those that are already retired and enjoying their cruising, bless you!

To those - like me - that are anticipating the time we can join those retirees, pray that we make it!

Leo

Planning on retirement in about 1280 days!
 
Leo,
You spend way too much time tied up in traffic. Your narrative is spot on and I and others like me look forward to when you can join us.... on the other side.
Toni and I enjoyed a fun 4 days in San Antonio two years ago, you live in a lovely city.
 
LeoinSA":214tvrwm said:
That said, millions of people sit in the same sort of traffic snarls everyday - mostly not knowing better,
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"Traffic Snarls" are exactly what changed my life significantly. After living in Montana as a kid, going away to college, then military, I somehow ended up working for a bank in Los Angeles..... :roll:
It didn't take too many years to know that I had to find a better life. So, I purchased property in Wa. State, and after the purchase was completed, I got so "ticked off" (to put it rather mildly) at the traffic one morning that I said...."I'm outta here!
In three months I found myself in Washington, briefly logging until I found a new career and a new personally rewarding niche in life.
That being said, thanks to "traffic snarls" my life was vastly improved!

So I guess traffic ain't all bad. :lol:
 
And the traffic followed you! Marysville, Arlington, Lake Stevens, Smokey Point! Hightway 9 used to be so sleepy in the 1960s!


DaveS":1co68yc5 said:
LeoinSA":1co68yc5 said:
That said, millions of people sit in the same sort of traffic snarls everyday - mostly not knowing better,
Click to expand...

"Traffic Snarls" are exactly what changed my life significantly. After living in Montana as a kid, going away to college, then military, I somehow ended up working for a bank in Los Angeles..... :roll:
It didn't take too many years to know that I had to find a better life. So, I purchased property in Wa. State, and after the purchase was completed, I got so "ticked off" (to put it rather mildly) at the traffic one morning that I said...."I'm outta here!
In three months I found myself in Washington, briefly logging until I found a new career and a new personally rewarding niche in life.
That being said, thanks to "traffic snarls" my life was vastly improved!

So I guess traffic ain't all bad. :lol:
Click to expand...
 
Pat,
With just 1,648 days left you had better give those people you work for some notice and, wait a minute, 1,648 days is like December of 2013!!!! I think young Austin could attend a few summer sessions so the old man could at least retire in the summer so we can plan a gathering/retirement cruise.
 
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