New twist in US/Canada border crossing by anglers/boaters

I have many friends in Canada and USE to visit them often, until last summer. I drove up to Northern Saskatchewan over Christmas, then again for the Ness Creek Folk Festival. Wonderful time as always. A few weeks later I was headed over to Newfoundland to visit some friends, got stopped at the border crossing, my life long record was ran head to toe, my car was COMPLETELY torn apart (even the air cleaner was removed--which they didn't even bother to reinstall) finally a 19 year old traffic ticket was discovered (speeding in a construction zone--I was 20 years old) it had been paid off for nearly two decades, but somehow, some way, this was enough to send the Canadian border guard in a frenzy of "you LIED to us! You said you didn't have a criminal record!" shamming me nearly to commit suicide on the spot. I tried to explain to him that it wasn't a big deal, even then. The ticket had nothing to do with drinking, or wreckless driving, etc. and I had already visited Canada TWICE in the past 6 weeks! Nope, I was turned back around, with apparently a call into the US side that I was a problem citizen (because toward the end I raised my voice in understandable bafflement and annoyance) The US guards had me drive 3 MPG along a special zone, while one of them had a stick with spikes ready to throw under my tires if I tried to "escape". Once inside a locked garage bay (yes I'm serious here) they lead me and my dog into a room where the grilled me (while tearing apart my car again) I explained the absurd situation, they ran my entire life history again, concluding that the Canadians indeed over-reacted, but their right to react however they want. The Canadian guard I had the misfortune to deal with was known by both sides to be an A1 asshole with a chip on his shoulder the size of Lake Erie. I was finally allowed to leave--stunned, vowing to NEVER have anything to do with Canada again. I looked into the "reabilitation" process: loads of paperwork, upward to a $1000 "processing fees" which still might result in "sorry, we don't want your tourist dollars".

Conclusion: I've been to Australia, New Zealand, most of the countries in Western Europe, a few in EASTERN Europe, Iceland, and Mexico, Never was there so much as a raised eye brow. Canada is a beautiful country, 60% of North America is locked up in it's borders--and in my opinion has politically gone straight off the deep end. I've had to tell my friends there, either meet me in Maine or Marry me, because I'm not going there again otherwise.

Oh...did I mention they also took my cell phone and read all my texts!!!

Welcome to the prison planet...no I'm not being hyperbolic.
 
We had a friend (Quebec)who was coming down last winter to Naples ,fl .He was turned away by Us Immigration for having been caught with pot on him 45yrs ago So I think the agents from both sides are trying to outdo each other until someone in Washington and Ottawa get some common sense .(that might be asking to much ) This was not a political statement this was a reality statement all parties are at fault here
 
Sorry to hear that you had such a terrible time while trying to enter Canada, it never was like that before. It has clearly gone way overboard.Canada really has been pressured to comply with the USA HomeLand Sercurity guidelines and the North American Sercurity Perimeter Pact that it forced to signed with the USA.Canada would and has asked for a more open boarder with the USA but it seems that this is never going to happen. I am all for dismantling the border altogether but it seems that things are going to continue to get worse for everyone.Like Miles has said..Welcome to the Prison Planet.
 
Toto we are not in Canada anymore or was it? Toto we are not going to Canada anymore. I had a lot of speeding tickets when I was really stupid. Backround checks for day trippers, Bill Clinton won't be allowed into Canada as he smoked weed but didn't even inhale. I guess Monica will be ok. :oops:
D.D.
 
Fascinating ... and more than a little eye-opening.

...maybe I better quit reading LewRockwell.com if I ever plan to go back into Canada. Oh, I forgot, I'm probably already on the Homeland Defense 'list.

Dang, I was looking forward to exploring Newfoundland someday - probably would have been a nice trip.

Casey
 
We just crossed into Canada and back to US (on a three-week cruise into BC) and our only comment from an officer, eying our boat out the window, was "Cute boat."
 
Here is a copy and paste, slightly edited, that I recently sent out as a PM to somebody inquiring about checking in at White Rock:



Entering Canada at White Rock we have never been visited by Canada Customs, and we do not have Nexus cards. You tie up at the little customs dock, and call on your cell, or go up and use the phone at the top of the dock. They are watching you on closed circuit TV. The dialog goes like this:

Pat: Hi, I'm calling to check in to Canada, I'm at the White Rock Customs Dock.

Canada (the gal is in Victoria): Boat registration number please?

Pat: WA3603NR.

Canada: OK, that's a 25 foot C-Dory, right? Maroon trim with the Canadian courtesy flag?

Pat:Yes.

Canada: Please tell me who is on board and give me their dates of birth and passport numbers.

Pat: (I run through the requested information).

Canada: And is Baxter with you today, and do you have his rabies certificate?

Pat: Yes and yes.

Canada: Do you have alcohol / firearms / tobacco / more than $10K in cash?

Pat: Nope, except for the alcohol, we have a fifth of gin and a 6 pack of beer.

Canada: OK, are you ready to write? Here is your clearance number.

Pat: (I write it down and read it back to the gal).

Canada: Welcome to Canada, have a nice stay!

Honest, that's it. For a Canada Customs officer to actually visit White Rock, he/she would have to come from the Blaine border crossing. White Rock is not busy (and returning, Point Roberts is not busy, and very convenient for checking in, since Blaine is not a designated small boat entry point).

Having said all that, watch what happens, they will tell you to wait until a Customs Officer arrives! But we have crossed maybe a dozen times, and it has always been a telephone check-in.
 
Interacting with the Border Patrol/Fisheries can be stressful and fickle at times. It seems that what may be a routine inspection one day can turn into a life changing situation the next.I can remember one time when a Canadian Fisheries Patrol Boat waived me down for a inspection in American waters..Instead of pulling along side of me, i had thrown a couple of bumper for a softer tie-up he rammed the bow of my boat and seemed not to care in the least that he could damage my boat. I gave him my Canadian/American fishing licences and other appropiate documentation. I was fishing in American waters when i was stopped, what happened next is completely insane. He gave me a ticket for $ 50.00 for fishing in Canadian waters without a licence, his partner a younger kid told him that i had both a Canadian/American fishing licence. That didn't seem to make any difference to him and told me as far as i was concerned i was in Canadian waters.Instead of arguing with this guy i basically accepted the ticket and he went on his way.This guy was obviously not all there but none the less he was the law and i had to respect that fact. The point i am trying to make is that whenever to travel to another country its like playing Russian Roulet, sometimes you win and sometimes you can really lose big.
 
Do any of you in Washington state have a Nexus pass and how convenient is it to use when boating into Canada? Do the canadians border patrol go easier on you if you have it? So far we have been lucky to have pleasant experiences with both canadian customs and canadian coast guard Just like Pat and PAtty. BUT can't say the same for either us fish and game ( who tried to ram my boat!!!!!) or us border agent who confiscated my garlic with the evil eye and a lecture.

susan
 
Some kidding aside, :D I think the thread started about people fishing and straying or just going into Canadian waters because they had a U.S. and Canadian fishing licence without checking in with the border folks. Having fished in the Thousand Island areas of New York you can easily end up doing so if you are not paying attention. Most smaller fishing boats in these areas don't use GPS as they are light trailerable aluminum boats equipped with the bare necessities. It's hard to imagine the fish cops not being able to distinguish the difference in between a properly licenced individual straying into Canadian waters and someone smuggling contraband, drugs. I think it important for the agencies in both countries responsible for border control properly train an individuals who have contact with foreign nationals to treat these folks like well customers almost. One bad experience with one individual can make some people feel that the whole country is filled with the same type a_ _ holes. If this situation borden worsens and we do have to invade I have already decided that after we take the country over changing some of the territories names might be in order. Because of the oil Alberta we will change it to Halberta. Bristish Columbia to North Washington, Sas-scratch-you-on (sic) to Far North Dakota, Quebec to Western France,etc. I could use use a little help on this as you can see. Just think cheap perscriptions, good coffee(Timmies), we could win in hockey with all the players from our own country,cheaper maple syrup, cheaper whisky and beer. Let us not forget socialized medicine. And you could take your own garlic with you. eh
D.D.
 
Two updates (June 23 and June 24) from North Country Public Radio:

If this issue interests you, it is worth going on-line and listening to the audio statements made by border officials in an attempt to clarify current policies. With Canada Day and July 4 right around the corner, this is turning in to a real mess.

http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/ ... rify-rules


Canadian fine prompts confusion on the St. Lawrence

(06/23/11) There's a lot of confusion today among boaters, fishermen and others in the thousand islands region. This after the State Department said Tuesday that Canadian Border Officials were well within their rights to threaten to seize an American fisherman's boat, and fine him a thousand dollars for fishing in Canadian waters without registering at customs.

When Roy Anderson entered Canadian waters to fish back in late May, he had no idea he was doing anything illegal—he hadn’t anchored, and was doing something that people on the river do all the time. But he—and apparently a lot of people—was about to get some news.

"It’s completely different from what we’ve been telling people for decades. We’ve been telling them they can go on both sides as long as they’re not hanging out with Canadians, don’t anchor, don’t dock," said Gary DeYoung, tourism director for the Thousand Islands international tourism council.

DeYoung said that after looking online, he’s not surprised American boaters are confused: "The American documents I’m finding online say the same thing—I saw a press release from the Detroit area that said in bold letters if you’re just going to fish you don’t have to report back to the United States."

Although Canadian boaters don’t have to report in here, apparently that’s NOT the case for American boaters in Canada. In media reports, the Canadian Border Services agency says unless you’re just passing through, you have to check in from a special CBSA phone. They’re at marinas and other locations on the Canadian side, so in order to use one of those, you have to make landfall.

Rich Clark has been a fishing guide out of Clayton for 31 years, and he regularly crosses over into Canadian waters—he says if this is in fact the policy, it’s going to affect how he does business.
"Whatever the rules are we have to abide by them," Clark said, "and bordering waterways like this where we’re all fishing both sides of the river it seems we could work out something more equitable but right now that seems to be the rule."
Clark said he’s making calls and writing emails to figure out what the rules are, but until he knows for sure, he’s staying on the American side of the river.

The Thousand Islands Tourism council’s DeYoung also makes the point that American boaters on the St. Lawrence want to be in compliance with regulations—they just need to know what they are. He says not knowing can have a chilling effect.

"The Thousand Islands is considered a big cruising destination… and when you enter a confusion as to how you can do that legally, it creates a hassle factor that’s really bad for tourism," DeYoung said.
The Canadian Border Services agency didn’t return our call in time for the story.

A spokesman for Congressman Bill Owens says Owens is working with Canadian officials to clarify the policy and see whether the requirement that boaters check in, can be eased.




As politicians line up against Canada boat fine, border agency looks to clarify rules.

(06/24/11) The US Department of State said on Tuesday that Canadian Border Officials were "well within their rights" when they threatened to seize an American fisherman's boat and fined him $1000 in May. It said the officials were just enforcing their rule that boats entering Canadian waters and not in transit, must report in on special phones located in marinas and other locations on land.

But politicians on both sides of the border are lining up against the move.

If you are on the river and are in doubt about whether you need to check in with Canadian Customs, call 204-983-3500.

US Congressman Bill Owens and State Senator Pattie Ritchie have both expressed serious concerns over what enforcement of that policy—which most boaters weren’t even aware of—could do to the fishing and tourism industries along the St. Lawrence.

Ottawa Senator Bob Runciman went further in his language, saying in a press release that he “deplores” the treatment of US Fisherman Roy Anderson, and saying that “Requiring fishermen to check into customs every time they stray across the border simply means they’ll stay as far away from Canada as they can.”

But as policymakers take stands on the issue, boaters are confused about what they can and can’t do…and border officials are charged with enforcing the existing policy in the water. Nora Flaherty spoke with the Canadian Border Security Agency’s Chris Keeley in hopes of getting some clarity on the issue.
 
listen to the interview, yeah that cleared it up :shock:

I'm going to call the b.c. customs offices and see what they have to say. I will report back. I have told people they can go over and shrimp and fish with out clearing customs for years . I have many friends that do just that all the time. Its nice to have a Canadian fishing tag to get a halibut in the summer when its closed here. or shrimp or crab. Now we will have to make it a over night trip. Last month I crossed over to take my brother and his family to see the orcas. They were up near Ganges that day. We crossed over and followed them back to the u.s. waters. Are a moving pod of orcas a destination? Were the twenty whales watching boats in violation for not having all there passengers clear customs?? need answers. It would be a shame for a policy change to occur just because the Canadians won't admit there officer was wrong and return the thousand dollars.
 
Ok. I called and talked to several nice canuks and learned the following.
1) If you are crossing into Canadian waters to fish or whales watch but not land or anchor you must call 1-888-226-7277 and report your intentions BEFORE entering Canadian water.
2) Even thu this has always been the rule they have never enforced it but they will now.

Seems easy to comply with and I will follow that rule in the future.
 
We had similar experiences with Canadian and U.S. border experiences as El & Bill when we were towing our 25 back and forth over the years. The Canadian side asked a few questions and said have a nice holiday. The U.S. side varied from nice to abrupt to downright jerks. We never had any real problems or interruptions in our travels.

When we decided to buy a bank repo Westcoast 46 in Vancouver, we learned a lot more about the border and customs. After buying the boat (another long horror story) we did all of our research and found that it would be easiest to bring her into Anacortes. Piece of cake, with proper paperwork it would take 30 minutes. We wouldn't even need a customs broker. I called Anacortes customs and was told that as long as we didn't come in on a Friday or a holiday it would be fine, no appointment needed.

The broker left Vancouver on Monday night and stayed somewhere in the Gulf Islands so that we could get the boat to customs early on Tuesday morning. We showed up in customs around 8:30, smiling, happy to finally be getting the boat into the states. When the office supervisor heard what we wanted to do, he went ballistic. He said that there was no way we were getting the boat into the U.S. without an appointment, and where was the boat? I said it was about an hour out of Anacortes. Then he really blew, said that these brokers were always trying to do this and the boat was going straight back to Vancouver. I then said all of our documentation closing was scheduled for that day and we needed to get the boat into the U.S. He asked who was on the boat and I told him the broker. He said there would be no boat landed in Cap Sante without a licensed captain.

We kept our emotions in check and never argued with him. We just kept saying that we had no choice but to sit there until they let the boat into the country. After a few hours his staff started to feel sorry for us. There were quiet conversations in his office and finally one young woman was assigned to us. She called our broker and found out that he was an experienced captain and an Olympic sailing coach. Ok, he could bring the boat into the harbor IF we got the paperwork approved. Fortunately I had a customs broker standing by in case there were problems and he was able to give them what they wanted. I'm abbreviating this story, but after spending all day working on it we got the boat into the country.

The lesson I learned is that they have the ability to change how they handle things and it doesn't really matter what everyone says worked yesterday. Part of it seems to be whim but some of it is calculated to prevent you from being able to game the system. I don't have the slightest idea of what some broker in Vancouver did to set him off, but I was a message back that he wasn't going to tolerate it. I've also learned to never give them back an emotion that can justify their bad behavior. If you keep your cool and don't show any irritation it goes much better. I have another long customs story about taking the boat back to Canada for some work, but I'll save it for another post.
Lyle
 
Major changes announced last night.
Two articles from today's paper pasted below.
The angler gets his money back and anglers/boaters can now call in by cell phone.
This change in policy applies to the entire USA/Canada border.


Watertown Daily Times
Watertown, New York
Saturday, July 9, 2011

Fisherman's Canadian fine to be returned

By Brian Amaral
Times Staff Writer
Saturday, July 9, 2011

The man who unwittingly sparked an international incident by fishing in Canadian waters will get back the $1,000 he had to pay when Canadian officials seized his boat, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo's administration confirmed Friday.
Roy M. Anderson, a 22-year-old Baldwinsville resident, was fishing in the Gananoque Narrows, believing that as long as he didn't set anchor or dock on Canadian soil, he didn't have to check in to Canada. North country river enthusiasts say that's been the law of the river for decades.
His boat was boarded by border officials from Canada, who demanded he pay $1,000 for not having reported. The incident has sparked an outcry among public officials and worry among north country residents who fear the tourism industry and recreational boating could be in danger.
Mr. Anderson appealed his fine. Elizabeth Glazer, New York's deputy secretary of state for public safety, wrote a letter in June to Vic Toews, Canadian public safety minister, demanding that Canada give Mr. Anderson his money back.
Mr. Anderson could not be reached for comment Friday. The Cuomo administration said it's working on expediting the repayment.
On Friday, state Sen. Patricia A. Ritchie took the occasion of Lt. Gov. Robert J. Duffy's visit to ask Mr. Cuomo's administration to get more involved in the issue. Administration officials said they were continuing work on finding a solution.



Canada compromises on reporting law
Border Enforcement: Boaters can check in via cellphone

By Brian Amaral
Times Staff Writer
Saturday, July 9, 2011

American boaters will be able to use their cellphones to check in to Canada's border agents if they're traveling in that country's side of the St. Lawrence River.
The change in posture, from officials at the Canada Border Services Agency, comes amid growing pressure from American officials who are concerned that Canada's enforcement of border rules could wreck the region's tourism industry and wreak havoc on long-cherished north country pastimes. But the partial concession has officials still looking for that final push, with the goal of life on the river going back to how it used to be.
Rep. William L. Owens, D-Plattsburgh, who has been in frequent contact with the Canadian Embassy in Washington since the controversy began, praised the decision and said his ultimate goal is to return the Canadian policy to what U.S. boaters long believed it was.
"I think this is certainly a great step in the right direction," Mr. Owens said in a telephone interview. He said the new policy should be easier for boaters.
"It's an inconvenience, but it's a minor inconvenience," Mr. Owens said.
A spokesman for the CBSA, Luc Nadon, said the reporting requirement applies along the entire water border of the United States and Canada, suggesting that boaters throughout the Great Lakes are in for a significant change in their routine. Boaters and boating organizations have reported that CBSA officers are ignoring the law on Lake Erie, for instance, and there have been no further reports of incidents such as Mr. Anderson's.
Mr. Nadon said the change takes effect immediately, suggesting CBSA offices are prepared to handle the hundreds if not thousands of phone calls from U.S. boaters throughout the Great Lakes that they have not been receiving in the past.
The story began May 30 when Roy M. Anderson, 22, was fishing unanchored in the Gananoque Narrows. Like most longtime boaters, he assumed that if he wasn't anchored and if he didn't plan to go ashore, he didn't have to announce his presence. Border officials from Canada, though, took control of his boat and fined him $1,000. They said he was in violation of a law that's on the books but had never been enforced.
Mr. Anderson was informed that he had to call Canada's border agents via a landline phone, which are spread out at marinas and other locations along the Canadian border.
The incident sent shockwaves through the Thousand Islands region, with day anglers and fishing guides alike wondering what was expected of them. Making the trip to a phone in Canada could cost hours of time and up to 50 gallons of gasoline.
Now, officials in Canada say that upon entering Canadian waters, U.S. citizens can call 1 (888) 226-7277 to announce their presence, and if they're cleared, they won't have to travel to a point on the Canadian mainland.
The CBSA also said it will consider ways to make reporting simpler for fishing derbies, which are common on the St. Lawrence and faced the daunting prospect of requiring hundreds of anglers to report, one by one, at CBSA telephones at Canadian marinas and other locations. The CBSA had rejected proposals from one bass fishing organization to clear contestants in advance.
The announcement by Canada came on the same morning Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y., came to Clayton seeking a solution. Large fishing tournaments already have scuttled plans to fish in Canadian waters.
Mr. Schumer proposed a pre-clearance system for large tournaments. Participants could offer their information in advance instead of wasting precious daylight hours when the tournament is under way. In a fact sheet explaining its change in requirements, the CBSA said it was open to such changes for large fishing derbies.
"If the regulations remain murky, the entire season could be hindered and there would be a big economic hit," Mr. Schumer said at the Antique Boat Museum to a crowd of reporters and anglers on a back dock overlooking the waterway.
Mr. Schumer suggested that politics in Ottawa could be part of the recent crackdown. The idea of Americans infringing upon Canada's sovereignty is a sore point, he said.
And the Canadian government is indeed entitled to have jurisdiction in its territory, he said, but it was in everybody's best interest to make the process as easy as possible.
"The Canadians seem to want to work with us," he said.
His solution for pre-clearance would be easier than traveling to Canada, but it still would be a departure for the decades-long traditions of north country anglers.
But even the compromise position was good enough for the anglers in attendance, who peppered Mr. Schumer with questions more eagerly than even the assembled media did.
"If it's an 800 number, I'd be glad to if that will stop the confusion," fisherman Edmund J. Matulewski said.
Friday's announcement fell short of one goal the Canadian government has stated: to harmonize U.S. and Canadian policies on the river. They remain quite different, as Canadian boaters fishing in U.S. waters without anchoring or docking their boats are not required to report to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.
But a private boater in that situation, who left Canada and then returned, would have to report to Canadian customs, the CBSA said.
 
Confusing, this is the policy that is still in effect on the St Marys River.Canadians recreational boaters need:

American Fishing Licence
Canadian Border Boat Landing Permit
Pre-clearance...you must have a face to face interview with a DHS CBP Agent before you can get a Canadian Border Boat Landing Permit
Example: if i plan on fishing with or without dropping an anchor in American waters i must first call a number and speak to a CBP Agent and tell him your intensions, ( float plan ) where and when you will be fishing.....he will give me a number ( write it down ) to present to the CBP if i am stopped and questioned by their Patrol Vessel.
Canadian boaters who have been fishing in American waters who have or not dropped anchor are not required to report their return to the Canadian CBP Authorities.

This is what is presently in effect and i wouldn't do it any other way unless i have a death wish!
 
I was born on the border and have crossed hundreds of times both legally and the other way which I won't mention. The Canadian border staff has always been a great bunch with a job to do, and done well, with efficiency and respect. I have ran into several jerks on the U.S. side with some sort of ego problem, or police state mentality- some sort of power trip which I don't understand, but real jerks. All in all, no real problems going either direction, so a salute to the true North strong and free and anyone travelling some of the best part of North America. Go North-sled dogs are great and you can drink beer at the hockey games! Roger
 
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