new member, lots of questions

[bmcminn]

Hello. I just moved to Bellingham from Hawaii island with my wife and our two daughters, 5 & 1. I've done some sailing and paddling but never had or used a motor boat.

I saw a C-Dory the other day and fell in love. So now I'm looking at getting a boat in the next year to learn, well, a lot of things! Excited to raise two girls on the salt. Actually, that's a big motivator for this. I think that mixing kids and water yields strong adults.

So, right now I'm looking at used 16' Anglers because they are more a more accessible price and trailering will be easier to learn.

But first question, why a C-Dory and not something like a Sea Scout or an aluminum boat like a Duckworth or a Hewescraft?

Number 2, friends and acquaintances say that aluminum is better for beaching and getting close into shore. But folks on here say that C-Dory's are particularly good at beaching. Please tell me why the fiberglass doesn't get ruined.

Last question for now, how much weather can a 16' handle? What size waves and wind speed? I'm looking to keep it mellow for now but want something that can go out when it's a little stormy/choppy.

Thanks so much for any input and I hope to say hi in August!

 

[thataway]

Welcome to the mainland! And to C Brats.

Please give some consideration to either a 19 or a 22--yes the 16 is smaller, but with two young children, you really want a larger boat--you will outgrow the 16 quickly--and the 19 is not much more cost--

Either is going about the same to launch.

Those of us who have owned C Dorys for a period of time, feel that are a great compromise. They are seaworthy, they hold their value better than another other group of boats I am aware of. They are economical to run. They are sturdy.

The negative, is that they are flat bottomed boats, and if not run properly will "pound" (Most likely you have seen some of this if you have sailed in the Hawaiian Islands.--this happens with flat bottom boats. On the other hand, going cross and down seas, their ride is far better than the other boats.

I suspect you mean Sea Sport rather than Sea Scout (there is a boat builder named Scout..but these are mostly open center console). The Sea Sport are a deeper "V" Forward. and will go better into chop. But you pay a price in fuel used, higher planing speed, and slightly less stable boat at rest.

There are those who like the aluminum boats for rivers--and some near coastal fishing. I have owned 4 or 5 small aluminum boats 12 to 15 feet in length. Some ware well built of heavy plate, many are thin, aluminum, which will work, rivets will need to be bucked and tightened. etc. There is a place for them, but as a family boat I believe the C Dory is better.

I don't run my C Dory on the beach much--but Have had experience running RIB (Inflatables with fiberglass V hull, as a dinghy for several of my larger sailboats.)
There is a little wear, but if it concerns you, then put a "keel Guard"--olastic strip which goes over the "V" forward, and takes the wear. With my RIB'sh I would take two Labrador retrievers ashore 3 to 4 times a day, 6Ths months out of the year on the Inland Passage. Each year, I would but a single layer of cloth as sacrificial strip on the keel. That was more than enough to protect--and would represent many years of the usual C Dory beaching. Because of the tides in the PNW, I don't consider beaching a boat to be -practical. We use dinghies--as you would in sailboats. If we were going for a hike, we would anchor the RIB out in depth water, and use an 'endless one" to pull the boat out to the anchor chain--and keep the other end (tied to the stern of the boat) shore, well above high tide mark.

In Lakes or places with minimal tide, we anchor with stern too the bank-anchor for the bow. This allows you to step off the boat--often not even getting your feet wet, because of the shoal draft of the C Dory line.

I cannot speak for the 16, but in the 22 and 25, there have been days we didn't go out--but those days the 80 footers were not going out either. The C Dory then goes at sailboat speeds, or a low planing speed of 10 mph, where the Sea Sport would have to be at 18 or so to just plane, because of hull configuration.

Before jumping in and buying a 16, get a look and ride in each of the boats in some significant chop--and see which you will feel most comfortable in. I do consider C Dory's 'investments"--not just in the financial sense, but looking at your web site--in the further of your two lovely daughters! You don't want a negative experience.

 

[bmcminn]

Thanks for the careful thoughts.

I would much prefer a 22' Cruiser but I think it's the difference between having a boat in 2020 or 2024.

If I can learn on 16' and take out the big kid on nice(er) days then I'm on to something. We were out in a friends Hewes and she was doing flips over the handles in front of the bow window while were bouncing along. She is fearless. Maybe we can trade up to a 22' in 5-7 years.

Some of my fondest memories are driving my 30 year old truck (RIP) through snow storms in the PNW going 5-20 mph. I think I'd be comfortable jibbing and tacking to the swell and chop.

Any other ideas are appreciated. I'm already learning a lot just reading through the forum.

 

[thataway]

You may want to contact Greg on "Aurelia". He went from a 25 to a 19 and has a couple of young children (OK they grow up fast!). They live in Gig Harbor.

I raised my children boating. Both went to Catalina before they were one month old. My son was in the crew at age 2 1/2 for a 30 day trip down the coast of Baja. By 5 they were racing Sabots (8' prams), and by 10 and 12 standing watches solo on our 62' sailboat in the Med.

My experience is that high energy kids do better on a boat a little bigger than 16 feet. (The 16 is a great boat, but if you want to include the entire family--at least consider the 19.) Several have sold in the $10,000 to $16,000 range recently. You have to keep your eyes out, and move rapidly if you find a bargain. I notice you have inquired about the one in BC. Keep options open. The distaff side of the equation is also extremely important!

 

[DayBreak]

We prefer C-Dory boats because of the flat bottom. We consider ourselves to be slow boaters and generally cruise at only 14 knots which is still plenty fast. In the San Juans and into the Canadian waters, there are many dead heads (logs) in the water and with some very large ones actually floating just barely under the surface. You will want to cruise more slowly so as to react in time to avoid contact with logs. A C-Dory affords you the ability to cruise at a slower speed (when compared to a deep v hull) to avoid hazards and not startle other boats so badly with making an evasive maneuver. Also, when coming up the the fuel dock at the time of re-fueling, a $200 fuel bill will fell a lot better than a $400 fuel bill when compared to a deep v hull cruising at the planing speed of a C-Dory. Gary.

P.S. In regard to weather or not to purchase a 16 ft. C-Dory, If you buy a 16 ft. boat, I think you will find that a good used older and well maintained C-Dory will get you the same purchase price you paid even after a few years of using it yourself. C-Dory boats are great purchase and hold their value when cared for. I agree with Dr. Bob that you should get a larger 19 ft. or 22 ft. boat. This will prevent you from having to sell and buy again especially knowing that you have growing children.

 

[Tippy Canoe]

We are new to boating, having had rafts and a canoe. We opted for a 16 ft. Angler after much deliberation. This is our starter boat - the one we learn with. It is a great boat with as much floor space in the back as a 22. Very easy to launch and really nice to have the pilot house for cover. Perfect for us as we just wanted a day use boat for now to fish our lakes, the Columbia and to crab with in the bays at the coast. Our hope is to move up to a 23 foot Venture when we are ready to go cruising but to also keep our 16 for those day trips. You can't go wrong with any C-Dory - you get a great boat and a family of boating friends, too.

 

[Desert Dory]

Hey bmcminn, like others have stated, look hard, look often at every site you can think of, especially here.

We're the ones that put the deposit on the 22 cruiser in Ohio listed for $15k. Going to leave here to go pick it up on 1 August. It's an older boat but it's a cream puff, very well taken care of and loved.

The deals are out there if you're patient, just be ready to pounce when one pops up.

Best of luck, Allen

 

[MikeR]

Welcome aboard! Bellingham born and raised here. Great town, I miss it, but fortunately only an hour away now. Hoe you can check out the Bellingham C-Dory get together August 17 and 18. There will be some 22's there for sure, maybe even a 16.

I bought a 16 Anger as a "day boat" in 2013. Loved it so much, found myself spending up to a week at a time out in it (solo though, not with family). So I upgraded to a 22 in 2016 for more cruising comfort. Also love the 22! After buying the 22, I sold the 16 to a buddy. A couple years later I missed the 16 so much I bought one again from another buddy. I really love both boats dearly. Just did 176 miles and 3 days in the 16 Angler, from Edmonds to Olympia and back. While hitting some "rough stuff" along the way I realized I feel just as secure in the 16 as the 22, and as you said, you can kind of tack around, dodging most of the big waves. But I've also been caught in some REALLY rough stuff in the 22, which I wouldn't want to be in in the 16. You just watch the forecast and be a little more selective with the 16', pick your days and don't be upset if you have to cancel last minute because the actual weather is worse than the forecast.

RE: Aluminum. Where I moor the 22 in Anacortes, the aluminum boats from 18 to 28 feet are extremely popular with the fishermen, probably outnumber FG by 2:1. It seems you can buy a new aluminum for much less than a fiberglass of same size. Personal bias, but the Hewes Crafts, Thunder Jets and King Fishers sold at my marina are very utilitarian but just don't have the same good looks or nice curves as any of the fiberglass boats. Probably an over-generalization but I feel like a fair percentage of the aluminum guys at the marina don't give as much attention cleaning and maintaining their boats after a day of fishing in the salt, and these same boats are looking pretty ratty after just a couple of years (dents, scratches, flaking paint, oxidation). Conclusion: I believe fiberglass boats are more popular with those who take pride in boat ownership, and aluminum is well suited for those who don't really care about their boat or boating, and really just use it as a vehicle to get to the hot fishing spot.

On the other hand, most of us with C-Dorys have to adjust to all the attention from admiring onlookers, either at the marina, the gas station, or towing down the road. Thumbs-ups, "how cutes", "that's a neat boat", etc. While shopping for my 22 I spoke to a few fishermen who were selling their 22's because they wanted a boat to get them out there in any condition at 30 mph+. But as Bob said, those kinds of boats generally have twice the size of outboard for the same size of boat, due to the higher HP needed for the deeper V. So if pride of boat ownership is not your thing, you just want to fish, and don't have a lot of patience, an aluminum fishing boat like a Hewescraft might actually be your better option.

Good luck in your hunt (and I hope you DO decide on a C-Dory), and hope you can make it to the Bellingham gathering next month to check out some of the boats and C-Brats! (Speaking of which, are there regular rendezvous for Hewescraft or Duckworth enthusiasts, or resources as great as C-Brats?...Doubtful. The C-Brats online community should also be a consideration in your decision!)

-Mike

 

[hardee]

MikeR kind of hit the nail on the head re: Aluminum Vs FiberGlass
Aluminum is often preferred by the fishermen. Their penchant is to get off the trailer and to the fish fast. F I S H . And then get back fast. The priority is the fish and fishing, not the boat.
Aluminum takes less (or at least gets less) TLC, (care, cleaning, and careful landings)*
Fiber Glass takes more care, (wash wax and polish) and more operating care.*
* From observations at the launch ramp, fuel dock, park docks, and mechanic shops.

I second, third and fourth the advice to get up close and personal with the boats before you make your $$$$ decision. Definitely go to the Bellingham CBGT (C-Dory Get Together) in August. Walk the dock, talk to the owners, accept the invitations to "come on board and take a look", and take a rid if you can. Bellingham Bay has a reputation for being bouncy. Go out a try it out. I just went through it this last weekend when the waters were quiet everywhere, but in the bay we had 1 foot waves. Not big, but enough to slap or pound depending on speed and trip and boat size.

As mentioned, take your time, look in lots of corners, and be ready with fast cash. Good deals will show up here for literally seconds to minutes. I would also highly recommend the 19 or 22. You will not regret that choice in many ways, and you will be money ahead in the long run, and your girls will grow up in a comfortable, safe, efficient and easily manageable boat.

Welcome to C-BRATS. It is a great community and everything you could want to know about C-Dorys you can find here. Great people, great boats, and a great place.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[bmcminn]

I really appreciate all the great replies! I'm definitely planning on being at the meet-up. Heck, once both kids are in school I'm going to try and get a job making these things.

I'm really confident this is the boat for me. The circles on the Venn diagram all overlap.

And I'm cool starting with a 16. The price jump to the 22 is huge. Even with the 19 it seems like they are a lot more.

MikeR, thanks for relaying your water/weather experience. I can dig that.

There are two 16s here in Washington that look like really good deals. I probably can spend the money but I know my wife would be soooooo much happier if I wait until next summer. I understand that there aren't many out there. Is it reasonable to wait or should I get that fast money moving and work on getting flowers, fish, and crab to make it up to sweety?

 

[ssobol]

...There are two 16s here in Washington that look like really good deals. I probably can spend the money but I know my wife would be soooooo much happier if I wait until next summer. I understand that there aren't many out there. Is it reasonable to wait or should I get that fast money moving and work on getting flowers, fish, and crab to make it up to sweety?

There is reasonable turnover of owners, so boats appear for sale on a regular basis. However, once they appear, they often sell quickly.

 

[bmcminn]

Hi. Thanks again for the help everyone! A couple more questions.

1. What brand trim tabs do you recommend for the 16'?

2. What to check when buying a used C-Dory. If I'm going to look at a used one is there anything to examine closely beyond fuel tanks and wiring? I've seen mention of moisture meeters and core rot.

I know that's a big question...

 

[thataway]

I would go with one of the electric--either Lenco or Bennett. They take less room inside the boat (no hydraulic pump, reservoir etc.

Look anywhere there is core penetration to see if there is evidence of moisture intrusion. If there is no core penetration--no moisture should get into the core.

Best is to make an epoxy plug and screw into that, or remove all screws into the core, fill the screw holes and then use fiberglass to tab in the "furniture".

Way to look for moisture or delimitation is to sound the hull with some implement. Experienced people use a small phenolic hammer, plastic screw driver handle etc. You look for a change of sound. A normal area will be crisp, higher ptiched sort of a "rap, rap". Vs a deep sound/ hollow, which would suggest wet and delaminated core. It is a skill picked up with experience.

Moisture meters are tricky. Some bottom paints (metallic content) will give high readings. A boat which has set out in the dew overnight, may give a false reading on the deck. A boat which is just hauled, may also have enough superficial moisture in the laminate to give false readings. Any area near metal (like the screw) will give high readings. Although not as accurate as the Trimetic surveyors meter, capacitance moisture meters such as a Ryobi will give good approximations--and may be adequate for the amateur.

If any question--"invest" in a hull survey. Definitely have the engine checked out unless you have experience in evaluating outboards. At minimum you want to beside that the engine runs smoothly, reaches wide open throttle, does not miss, vibrate or stall. Compression readings and in some cases a "leak down" test are essential. Look for overheating--and that is where the IR thermal gun, or thermal imager will shine. Be sure that the thermostat is working properly. Also look for maintenance records.

Good luck in your quest. If there any any alarm bells going off, walk away or at the very least get a professional opinion. Before I bought my current 25, I had been looking for over 6 months, and had looked at half a dozen 25s that were for sale. Every once in a while an outstanding boat will come along--and you have to be ready to jump on it immediately.