New Here, Recently Fell in Love with the 22 Cruiser

[greatlakesmann]

I apologize for the long first post. My condensed list of questions are at the bottom if you want to skip the rambling.

I've been searching long and hard for a decent boat to use on Lake Michigan, Lake Winnebago and numerous other small lakes here in the upper Midwest. I came across a C-Dory (unsure of model) slipped here in Milwaukee, and that led me to their website, where I fell in love with the 22 Cruiser. The average towing weight would pull perfectly behind our SUV.

Seems just about perfect for my needs. Not too long, not too short. It seems like it would handle the Great Lakes decently, as listed on their brochure that the 22 cruiser is a favorite among those who do the Great Loop.

Those who have this boat, how do you like it? How does it handle rougher water? What is the biggest sea you've been out in?

I specifically am looking for a cabin/pilot house style boat to take in rougher weather. If not waves, then temperature. I want to be able to boat long into the colder months, so long as the water isn't frozen over and the ramps still have docks, I want to be able to get out and go. I figure I could extend my season by at least a month and a half in the spring and fall. Where it's too cold for normal open deck boats yet the lakes aren't frozen over, but with a cabin and heater? Who cares how cold it is outside when you have a heater!

I want to take this boat out on Lake Michigan, and anyone who knows this lake or any of the Great Lakes, knows how nasty they can be. I would not throw caution to the wind, if it is truly too rough, I would not go out. I've taken our current boat, an 18 foot deck boat, in some nasty waves out in the harbor and beyond the breakwall, so I do have experience in how to handle waves. I've been out in probably 2-3 foot chop, not going fast at all, and probably 3-5 foot rollers. I felt like I was on a roller coaster, but it was fun. A major selling point to me, is the closed bow. Even if I were to have a wave break over my bow, it's not coming into the boat. Obviously taking waves is not the point, but it's better shed off the sides than scooped almost welcomingly into the boat. I understand that the C-Dory is not self bailing, but that could be rectified by either adding scuppers or a secondary bilge pump. However, if enough water is somehow coming into the very back of the boat to be a concern, there's another issue.

Does the boat come with trim tabs? Does it come with a bimini? I would want to relocate the head from under the berth into a removable privacy curtain that would be hung from the bimini frame. The idea of relieving oneself in the same place as you sleep, just doesn't sit right with me. But to each their own.

How does the boat move with a 115? I am not local to any dealer here in the Midwest, so I'm not sure what they offer, but on our 18 foot deck boat, we have a Mercury 115 Pro XS. I would want to power similarly, however, I would step up to the Command Thrust version of the 115. It apparently has a larger gearcase and better ratio, so you can put much bigger props on it. The location of dealers would be an issue, as I would like to buy new. However, this is currently my dream boat, and I would not mind taking a vacation to pick it up.

Is there room to mount a kicker? I've seen videos of this boat with two normal outboards mounted, so I assume the transom can handle it. Mercury has a 9.9, 15 and 25hp Pro Kicker. Those who have kickers, what HP did you go with? And how well does it move the boat? I understand it's going to be slow, but would a 25hp have much advantage over a 9.9 in terms of speed? Or would the fuel be wasted on a larger kicker to move the boat at the same speed.



Again, sorry for the long post, here is my condensed list of questions:

Those who have this boat, how do you like it? How does it handle rougher water? What is the biggest sea you've been out in?

What main engine HP do you have? Would a 115 and a good 4 blade prop move it well?

Is there room to mount a kicker?

Those who have kickers, what HP did you go with? And how well does it move the boat?

Does the boat come with trim tabs? Does it come with a bimini?

 

[Pat Anderson]

I'm sure you will get all your questions answered! We cruised on Lake Michigan down the Michigan shore from Mackinac Island to Chicago in our C-Dory 25 Cruiser on our 2017 Great Loop, but folks have done the Loop on CD22s as well. My blog is in my signature below!

 

[ssobol]

...
Those who have this boat, how do you like it? How does it handle rougher water? What is the biggest sea you've been out in?

What main engine HP do you have? Would a 115 and a good 4 blade prop move it well?

Is there room to mount a kicker?

Those who have kickers, what HP did you go with? And how well does it move the boat?

Does the boat come with trim tabs? Does it come with a bimini?

I have a CD22 with a 90hp on it. I boat on Lake Michigan and have boated in a number of other places. The joys of a trailer boat.

While the C-Dory is most comfortable in calm water (like every other boat) I have been out in about 3' waves on a couple of occasions. I have been on Lake Erie with waves coming over the bow and crashing against the front windows. While the boat can handle this, it is not really a fun ride. C-Dorys are rather light and have flat bottoms. The dory hull is more of a cork than a plow. If rougher water you will be going up and down with the waves rather the busting through them. The boat can handle rougher water than the passengers. I've had people say after arrival at a harbor in bad weather "You came across [X] in that!"

Most boats have trim control. Either tabs or Permatrim (sometimes both). These are aftermarket items installed be the dealer or the owner. Most 2nd hand boats you'll find will have one of these on them already. Trim control aids in getting the bow down for better ride in rougher water. The hull has a fairly fine entry at the front and this can help a lot. CD boats tend to be stern heavy. This is de to the shape of the hull and where equipment is installed. Batteries, fuel tanks, engine(s) are all at the very stern of the boat. Trim control surfaces are pretty much required.

When lightly loaded my Honda 90 with a 3 blade Al prop will move my 22 faster than it should go (low 30s mph). With the flat bottom at high speed on flat water, the boat is just skimming the surface and control gets a bit dicey. With normal loads the 90 will move the boat in the high 20s. Most of the time I cruise about 20mph.

I don't have a kicker. With modern FI outboards and where I boat there really is no need for one in my use case. I actually added a second swim step (one on each side of the engine) which I find way more useful than a kicker motor.

Biminis are optional aftermarket equipment. Camper backs which enclose the whole cockpit are also popular for boats in areas that need them. These are custom made for the boat.

You can't really add scuppers to the CD cockpit for drainage. Most of the time they would be under water. The cockpit floor (all except the CD25) is actually the bottom of the boat (i.e. like a jon boat). My boat has a bilge pump at the back of the cockpit in a small sump. The cockpit remains pretty dry in normal use. The bilge pump is there for removal of rain water and such (e.g. shower water after bathing in the cockpit).

On trips where the porta-potti is used, I keep it in the cockpit. Anchoring out does not present a problem using it in that location. When in a marina I use the marina facilities. The porta-potti is only kept in its "spot" when towing the boat from one place to the next.

 

[thataway]

ssobol gives you excellent information. We just left the porti potty under the bunk and pulled it out when needed. No odor etc if used properly.

The 90 hp is plenty of engine, and the "command Thrust" is probably not needed.

Kickers: 25 or 15 are more than you need. I tend to be on the lower hp range, I used a 2.5 or 3.5 HP,, which was our dinghy motor. I spent many years in my fathers 26' sailboat which was powered with a 5 hp outboard, with large prop. It was very similar to. the C Dory 25 hull form. A mini jacker or articulating bracket probably works best, but you can set a kicker on the transom if you wish. 6 hp will give your hull speed--which is easily driven at about 4 knots. 8 HP with a "Big Foot" will get in the 6 knot range, at twice the fuel consumption.

I have been in seas far bigger than you want to be in. Down wind 10 or so feet. Into the wind 3' is about the limit you want. The cockpit is not self bailing--so I want the Bimini with enclosure, or slant back, to keep spray out of the cockpit. Especially if you want the potty in the cockpit--you want the full enclosure. The aft bilge pump works OK with water in the cockpit when underway, but when at rest, water pools forward by the aft cabin bulkhead, so some pump there is handy for rain water or shower water. Newer boats do have the raised floor but still not self bailing as the 25 is. I liked the removal 2 part floor in the 2005-6 era.

New is going to be expensive--but all of the boats have gone up in value recently.

 

[greatlakesmann]

...
Those who have this boat, how do you like it? How does it handle rougher water? What is the biggest sea you've been out in?

What main engine HP do you have? Would a 115 and a good 4 blade prop move it well?

Is there room to mount a kicker?

Those who have kickers, what HP did you go with? And how well does it move the boat?

Does the boat come with trim tabs? Does it come with a bimini?

I have a CD22 with a 90hp on it. I boat on Lake Michigan and have boated in a number of other places. The joys of a trailer boat.

While the C-Dory is most comfortable in calm water (like every other boat) I have been out in about 3' waves on a couple of occasions. I have been on Lake Erie with waves coming over the bow and crashing against the front windows. While the boat can handle this, it is not really a fun ride. C-Dorys are rather light and have flat bottoms. The dory hull is more of a cork than a plow. If rougher water you will be going up and down with the waves rather the busting through them. The boat can handle rougher water than the passengers. I've had people say after arrival at a harbor in bad weather "You came across [X] in that!"

Most boats have trim control. Either tabs or Permatrim (sometimes both). These are aftermarket items installed be the dealer or the owner. Most 2nd hand boats you'll find will have one of these on them already. Trim control aids in getting the bow down for better ride in rougher water. The hull has a fairly fine entry at the front and this can help a lot. CD boats tend to be stern heavy. This is de to the shape of the hull and where equipment is installed. Batteries, fuel tanks, engine(s) are all at the very stern of the boat. Trim control surfaces are pretty much required.

When lightly loaded my Honda 90 with a 3 blade Al prop will move my 22 faster than it should go (low 30s mph). With the flat bottom at high speed on flat water, the boat is just skimming the surface and control gets a bit dicey. With normal loads the 90 will move the boat in the high 20s. Most of the time I cruise about 20mph.

I don't have a kicker. With modern FI outboards and where I boat there really is no need for one in my use case. I actually added a second swim step (one on each side of the engine) which I find way more useful than a kicker motor.

Biminis are optional aftermarket equipment. Camper backs which enclose the whole cockpit are also popular for boats in areas that need them. These are custom made for the boat.

You can't really add scuppers to the CD cockpit for drainage. Most of the time they would be under water. The cockpit floor (all except the CD25) is actually the bottom of the boat (i.e. like a jon boat). My boat has a bilge pump at the back of the cockpit in a small sump. The cockpit remains pretty dry in normal use. The bilge pump is there for removal of rain water and such (e.g. shower water after bathing in the cockpit).

On trips where the porta-potti is used, I keep it in the cockpit. Anchoring out does not present a problem using it in that location. When in a marina I use the marina facilities. The porta-potti is only kept in its "spot" when towing the boat from one place to the next.

Thanks for the detailed reply! I was thinking of mounting a bilge pump on deck, in a small sump, to drain out any rain water or spray that got in. A secondary sump near the front also sounds like a good idea.

 

[greatlakesmann]

ssobol gives you excellent information. We just left the porti potty under the bunk and pulled it out when needed. No odor etc if used properly.

The 90 hp is plenty of engine, and the "command Thrust" is probably not needed.

Kickers: 25 or 15 are more than you need. I tend to be on the lower hp range, I used a 2.5 or 3.5 HP,, which was our dinghy motor. I spent many years in my fathers 26' sailboat which was powered with a 5 hp outboard, with large prop. It was very similar to. the C Dory 25 hull form. A mini jacker or articulating bracket probably works best, but you can set a kicker on the transom if you wish. 6 hp will give your hull speed--which is easily driven at about 4 knots. 8 HP with a "Big Foot" will get in the 6 knot range, at twice the fuel consumption.

I have been in seas far bigger than you want to be in. Down wind 10 or so feet. Into the wind 3' is about the limit you want. The cockpit is not self bailing--so I want the Bimini with enclosure, or slant back, to keep spray out of the cockpit. Especially if you want the potty in the cockpit--you want the full enclosure. The aft bilge pump works OK with water in the cockpit when underway, but when at rest, water pools forward by the aft cabin bulkhead, so some pump there is handy for rain water or shower water. Newer boats do have the raised floor but still not self bailing as the 25 is. I liked the removal 2 part floor in the 2005-6 era.

New is going to be expensive--but all of the boats have gone up in value recently.

How much would you estimate new would be? A Parker 2120 Sport Cabin runs 100k per the website, but I like the C-Dory design much better. Would you wager it's around that range?

 

[Schuster]

New verses Used. Not knowing the new market value of a 22 CDory I'd have to guess it is the range of that Parker you talked about. Something to keep in mind is that All the EXTRA stuff that you mention gets tacked on top of the new boat price. For instance you could easily spend several $K on a canvas enclosure, more $Ks for kicker motor, dingy, anchor and chain and rode, heater, life jackets, docking lines etc, etc, etc. Whereas if you were to get a low hour used boat you could save a bunch of $$ and get a boat that has already been set up for the long haul.
Lately there have been several really good deals on 22s. Good luck with your search and welcome to the C-Brats.

 

[thataway]

How much would you estimate new would be? A Parker 2120 Sport Cabin runs 100k per the website, but I like the C-Dory design much better. Would you wager it's around that range?

I would expect over 100K with trailer etc.

 

[colbysmith]

Those who have this boat, how do you like it? How does it handle rougher water? What is the biggest sea you've been out in?

What main engine HP do you have? Would a 115 and a good 4 blade prop move it well?

Is there room to mount a kicker?

Those who have kickers, what HP did you go with? And how well does it move the boat?

Does the boat come with trim tabs? Does it come with a bimini?

Feel free to browse my photo album (and nested albums) under Midnight Flyer. (just click on Midnight Flyer to the left of this reply.) I no longer have it as I upgraded to a 25. But I loved the 22, and had Midnight Flyer for a little over 10 years. Lots of time put on it in Lakes Michigan and Superior, the Mississippi, and many other places. I had a Merc 115 4-stroke EFI on it. Ran a 4 blade aluminum, I believe a 13x13. Top speed was around 33mph. Top COMFORTABLE speed was about 10 mph less! (It gets pretty squirrely over 25.) I had a Tohatsu 6hp kicker on it. Kicker could push the boat up to hull speed, which was around 5mph. I had trim tabs and a permatrim on it, would highly recommend both! I also had a bimini and full enclosure made by Lohaus Covers in Cottage Grove. On my 25 I just went with a bimini, as I don't think the full cover was worth the additional cost and need to store it when not in use. Anything over 1 foot chop will get rough and you'll want to slow down some. Over 3' miserable. One time we ended up in 6-7' seas on Lake Huron in the North Channel. NOT FUN! NOT COMFORTABLE! But the boat got us safely back to calmer water, at about 3-5mph. My 22 on it's trailer weighed 5100 lbs. Fully loaded. I bought the boat for 37.5 and added new electronics. Sold it for 38K three seasons ago. Basic electronics, bimini, full enclosure, and full storage cover. Aluminum twin axle trailer with all electric brakes. (They work fine in fresh water.) Comparable 22's seem to be going closer to 40k-45K now days. Maybe they'll come back down? Colby

 

[daninPA]

We have a 22' with a Yamaha 115 and in flat water, it moves (low 30s).

But any chop and fast is not fun (which is the whole point for us -- we're not getting paid to be out there). You really feel that flat bottom. So I slow to no-pounding speed and trim the bow down as needed. We added a Permatrim and I'm glad we did -- it really helps set the ideal angle for the conditions (it's very helpful to be able to point the bow down into the waves otherwise it would be porpoising in some sea-states). We don't have trim tabs but so far I don't see the need, as port-starboard trim is easily adjusted ("Can you please sit there?").

Though the 115 has plenty of power, it sips fuel when used reasonably (15-22 MPH or so). At some point, I'll do a NMPG chart, but we typically get 4-6 days out before needing to refuel.

The 22' seems to be the ideal mix of reasonable size and weight for trailering and yet big enough to spend the day on. We have not yet cruised overnight but plan to next season.

We're based on the upper Chesapeake but have also towed it up to the St Lawrence river. I haven't been out on Lake Ontario yet, but I'd not hesitate if the weather is reasonable.

The only warning is -- the CD22 lightly loaded will test your docking patience. The flat bottom and the relatively large above-waterline surface area mean the slightest wind will shove you off whatever perfect line you thought you had. At first I thought I simply forget how to dock or trailer a boat. But then it became clear the lack of a keel and the shallow draft weren't helping at all. Our CD has a rocket launcher, radar dome, and an A/C unit mounted up top, so it's basically a sailboat.

 

[ssobol]

... so it's basically a sailboat.

Except a sailboat is easier to dock.

You also forgot to mention that a CD22 wants to point downwind as soon as steerage comes off. Docking in a crosswind requires decisive line handling.

 

[T.R. Bauer]

The CD 22 is an amazing boat. If your priorities are a simplistic, seaworthy, and economical vessel, there isn't one better. It's even pretty comfortable for extended cruises, but there are better choices....and way bigger/expensive choices for those adventures. I've had mine for a really long time....don't regret it!

 

[hardee]

... so it's basically a sailboat.

Except a sailboat is easier to dock.

You also forgot to mention that a CD22 wants to point downwind as soon as steerage comes off. Docking in a crosswind requires decisive line handling.

Both of those are easily accomplished with twin OBs.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[daninPA]

Both of those are easily accomplished with twin OBs.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

Having no experience with twins, I’ll assume that is true.

Though in private aviation there’s a trite phrase that may be apropos: while a single engine is risky, a twin will get you to the scene of the accident quicker..

 

[qboat]

Greatlakesmann, I am a new 22' owner and am learning the boat as I go. Running her in lower Delaware Bay, so lots of chop. I have a new permatrim, which helps a lot in a chop. I will put on tabs this winter. It is great to be in the cabin and comfortable in cold weather. As others have pointed out, upwind in a couple of feet of chop you will want to go displacement speed, quarter into the waves, or both.
One thing I have learned. With the flat bottom and high sail area (the cabin) she will blow off wind amazingly quickly. If you are solo you will have to get used to docking "out the window" and doing it quickly if it is breezy. My view so far--love the boat--it has opened off-season boating for me. For the rest of your questions I defer to those with enough experience to know what they are talking about! Sam

 

[T.R. Bauer]

I have found that you can go too slow in 2 feet of chop. 3 feet of steep chop is just miserable in just about any boat this size. But you can go too slow in that as well. Anyway....with the tabs lifting the stern and the engine trimmed properly, the ride is decent on step even going into it. The sharp entry of the boat will cut through the chop pretty well, if you make it, which is attained by lifting the stern. If going too fast you will have some bow steer on the bigger waves, which isn't any fun, but with experience you will know limits of what you can get away with. I'd say I can run ok at 15 or so mph in 2 foot chop. Going with it? Faster. But....it sure won't be as smooth as flat water. What I don't like is confused, pyramiding, wind and current driven, 3-4 foot seas. Yuck.