New camperback - a few detail questions for the gang....

[redbaronace]

Not sure if I missed it in your posts, but who is making your camper back? Also, do you have a price estimate yet?

Still hoping to have one of these made someday, perhaps for the 255.

 

[Sunbeam]

Not sure if I missed it in your posts, but who is making your camper back?

Oyster Creek Canvas in Bellingham

Also, do you have a price estimate yet?

A very preliminary estimate of $3500, but we really haven't ironed out the details yet, so that may change.

I had been in touch with Oyster Creek a couple of other times, as they came well recommended, but our schedules never aligned (as, as now, I was just kind of nervous about making all the decisions!). Last year I had them alter my bimini slightly so that I could remove it from the frame for towing (added zippers).

 

[Sunbeam]

Have the canvas extend past the lazaretts. Our original King Canvas top ended at the motor well. We extended the new canvas past the lazzeretts and what a difference! It made our new room seem HUGE.

I was just looking at the photos of your canvas in the Carpy album. I see you have a splashwell tray that is something like the one I have. I was trying to see exactly how/where you have the canvas fastened as it passes behind that tray (i.e. the area between the two lazarettes), but I can't quite figure it out - can you explain it?

Ghone: If you see this, I have the same question about your camperback. I also looked at your album but can't really tell for sure how/where the canvas fastens as it passes across the splashwell area.

I've grown quite fond of my "temporary mock up" splashwell table, and would like to have it "inside" the camperback. But... I don't think I want the camperback to attach to it.... (?) because it's not really attached to the boat (just sits on scoot guard and is held down to underside of splashwell with shock cord and a couple of small hooks).

 

[Sunbeam]

A couple more questions, but they are more general so I didn't want to bury them in my splashwell tray ones.

1) I tend to go out over the port side splashwell when beaching (swim step is on port side). Will that still work with a camper back? Do you have a special "door" there, or do they all just unzip aft as a matter of course?

2) How do you handle the stern cleats? I've seen some with them outside or others with then enclosed and then "slots" to reach into the camperback to access them. I was thinking to have them outside.... then just attach a line and bring it back to the area by the built in step (just aft of cabin) and handle it from there when disembarking?

Hmm, I guess I might have to stop using my dowels-in-rod-holders fender holders. I really like them though! Boy, there is a lot to think about. I'm half tempted to do this after Powell, so that I could really look at the camperbacks there. I have photos of the big picture, but not all the small things.

 

[Will-C]

Our camper top has four main canvas parts. The roof which free standing make sure the pins that allow for removal of the frame have wire retainers so they don't perform disappearing acts. Our sides and back rollup. But the sides also have zippered u shaped entrances which we rarely use. Our boat being a Venture is a little easier to enter because of the larger fish box steps so the rolled up sides don't bother us much. We did have the canvas guy make us up three tubular bags for the side and rear removable portions with draw string ends and sewn on strap type handles. When we remove the side and rear curtains which have large windows (which we are trying to protect against scratching) We lay down a large soft sheet place the curtain on top of the sheet and roll it up around a swim noodle. We than place the rolled up side or rear sides into their individually marked bag. This allows us to be able to store them easily in a dock box inside of our garage or in the back of our trucks cap covered lockable storage area. Or if need be throw them up in the bunk area. Our setup is somewhat different as we have a roof top air conditioner so color and screens don't seem to be pressing issues as we leave the cabin's back door open which allows for another air conditioned space. The front of our side portions have a rubber type tube attached to better seal when they are snapped on as the look of any permanent attachment other than the snaps might look tacky to some.
I feel sorry for your canvas guy already.
D.D.

 

[bcassal]

The canvas does attach to the stern table on Carpy. We leave the tray in place all the time. There are 4 twist fasteners to hold it. The tray is mounted on a bar that spans the splashwell and stays firmly in place. I questioned attaching it here too, but there was really no other way to have a reasonably tight seal and it has worked out fine. I put a piece of foam pipe insulation over the lip of the tray to prevent chaffing of the road cover. The rear panel rolls up and we can cook on the tray in the rain and it extends far enough that it doesn't rain in.
Rain runs into the cockpit where it attaches to the roof. I'm not sure how you could prevent that without it looking awkward and goofy. If we have the forward side panels up we stay pretty dry. Last year we went to the Tellico river in May and had 3 days of SOLID rain. We were warm and dry with the canvas up. The rain kept people away and we had the water to ourselves.

The cleat are outside. Just unzip between panels and reach through.

 

[C-Hawk]

Here's the pictures of my canvas. These are from my old boat Fishtales. http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

 

[bcassal]

Rainy day cooking:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php
Carpy

 

[bcassal]

Will-C 's comment on your canvas guy cracked me up!

Carpy

 

[Sunbeam]

I'm making notes! Lots of these things shouldn't be any more difficult to do, but I just need to know to ask for them. For example, Will-C, I like the idea of the tube shaped storage bags, and then using a pool noodle for a core. And Carpy, I definitely like the idea of being able to cook on the splashwell table in the rain. I mean, how cozy does this look? (As compared to the same scene with me and my meager bimini.)



Carpy, I now see better how your splashwell table works. I made mine to go across higher up, and the ends rest on the small "lips" just inboard of the lazarette lids. So even if I fastened to it, there would be a large "slot" underneath it leading into the splashwell. Well, I will see what ideas the canvas fellow has. I can always re-design the table to go with the canvas.

This is the table on Halcyon. I modeled mine after this one, C-Cakes' and Kerri-On's. The one difference is that mine stops just inboard of the lazarette lids - so my table is a bit less wide, but I can get into the lazarettes with it in place. I see also that the table is on backwards in this photo (which was from the for-sale listing). The "notch" is so the outboard(s) can tilt up better, and would normally face aft.



Here is a pretty lousy photo of mine - funny how many photos I've taken and almost none show the table. Guess I'll have to ask the camperback fabricator to include places to hang my wet gear



I made that as just a temporary mock up, but now I can't imagine being without it. I may have to find a way to make it more rigid so it could be attached to. I'm eager to find out how Kerri-On's is attached there, since my cockpit table is a lot like his.

Will-C: On feeling sorry for the canvas guy. Ha, I know what you mean. But seriously, I do a couple of things in advance to try to avoid issues. One is that I tell people that I'm detail-oriented and particular, so that if it's going to be a "mis-match" they can let me know in advance and I'll go elsewhere. The other is that while I'm not made of money, I am completely happy to pay for good work, and make a point of not "whining about" the price, or the added cost of any add-ons. My feeling is that if they are things I want, and they are done well, then it's completely worth it. Where I get unhappy is in paying for shoddy work, or doing work with someone who is bored. I enjoy pairing up with a craftsperson who is competent, interested, and enthusiastic. Maybe working with someone like me is preferable to hum-drum "churning things out"? I can hope

 

[Sunbeam]

Next question:

I think this will need to be taken down and stowed when trailering. I believe the frame design will be such that the (empty) frame can be stowed up against the cabin, but that leaves the canvas needing someplace to go. Do you all have special bags? Or just flake it and stow it in the v-berth? Anything "built in" to make it easier to take down, stow, and put back up? If so, I'll add it to my list.

(Along with any "well this didn't work out; don't do it this way" or "I wish I had added this..." details.)

One note is that I don't boat "from a garage." I tend to be out on long trips, so anything I need has to be able to be stowed aboard white trailering, and then in the tow vehicle when I'm out on the water.

 

[bcassal]

My canvas fits into one bag which I suspend from the berth ceiling with bungee cords. I added an eye gizmo to the through bolts that are there for the cleats and rail. It stow against the ceiling and does not interfere with sleeping. The bimini has a cover and laches to the cabin roof rails while on the road.

I like the tray lower. I usually have a cooler strapped on while underway. Once again, I took the idea from a C-Brat on this site.

In my years of homebuilding, I much preferred clients who knew very much what they wanted.

Carpy

 

[Sunbeam]

My canvas fits into one bag which I suspend from the berth ceiling with bungee cords. I added an eye gizmo to the through bolts that are there for the cleats and rail.

Well, guess what? I recently removed/replaced my cleats and bow rail (epoxying holes through core) and I left one fastener on each longer, and added eye nuts. I figured they might come in handy for something....

The bimini has a cover and laches to the cabin roof rails while on the road.

Ah, good idea to treat the bimini separately from the rest of the camperback. I can see there would be many times I would just want the bimini (like I have now), but would leave the rest of the camperback stowed. I like your solution.

I like the tray lower. I usually have a cooler strapped on while underway. Once again, I took the idea from a C-Brat on this site.

Isn't this place just the best? :thup I thought about a cooler rack there, but decided not to do it that way. For me, I'd have a hard time lifting it up and down when it was full, and plus with it "loose" on the cockpit sole, I can shift it around somewhat for trim weight. I also usually use it as a step up to the lazarette/table when going up and over to the swim step. On the other hand, I can see how it would be really nice to have it up and out of the way on the tray, so I can see why you chose that way.

In my years of homebuilding, I much preferred clients who knew very much what they wanted.

Well let's hope the canvasmaker is like you! (But also with some good ideas borne of experience that I can decide I want - I imagine you were that way too).

Sunbeam

PS: This explains why I have so many of your "mod" ideas saved in my C-Dory files; many times I've just wanted to contact you and say "Can you please make duplicates of all the nifty cabinetry/wood mods you've made on Carpy, and send them to me to install on my boat"

 

[ghone]

Hi Sunbeam. My splashwell table rests on scootguard pads and fits between the hatches. It is held in place by the same type of straps as on the bimini. Canvas guy suggested this. I had bungies before. This is so it stays put but isn't permanent. And yes the canvas snaps to it the canvas snaps around the hatch coamings and then across the back edge of the table. It fits and works very well and I would not want to do it any other way. We get no rain into our cockpit. I was very adament with our canvas guy that the top needed to shed water so he made sure that it would. Tight fits, top overhangs, etc. Our second stove is on the splashwell table and prep space is there so we cook out there most of the time. We can be out there when it's pouring. The bimini comes far enough aft to pretty much cover the store when the back is up The canvas at the back is a two piece zipped to center and when cooking, the side over the stove is unzipped and snapped up to the bimini frame.

 

[Will-C]

Sunbeam,
Glad to see you are not offended by or tipped over my attempt at humor.
When we are trailering I keep all of the camper top's elements in the bags except for the canvas top which we leave just folded and in the back of our pickup truck. We have a cap with a locking rear window and a lock on the tailgate. Unless it is a short trip 100 miles or less I usually remove the frame and place that in the back of the truck also. Our fittings are secured with 1/4 x 20 Allen head set screws to the one inch stainless steel tubing. I've had a couple of these fall out in spite of Loctite etc. A couple extras of any small hardware or screws that have to do with your camper tops frame system are a nice to have stored in an old pill bottle. They can disappear at the worst times. Hence I usually remove the frame and store it in the truck. I have added labels like forward to the frame so I know how it gets installed. There has been incidents of having to preform the spin move with our bulky camper tops frame while doing an install in advance of launching. After sometimes months go by without using the camper top (the summer) I seem to forget things. Fortunately for us Jean's Canvas out of Belford New Jersey made all the right moves and we ended up with a nice camper top which for five years has served us well and has kept us dry in some pretty fierce thunderstorms.
D.D.

 

[Will-C]

D.D.

 

[anchorout]

Sunbeam:
You once said you were thinking about adding solar panels, and a mount above the cockpit was an option. I am considering adding two 100 watt panels on a fixed mount. With a dinghy up top, the roof is out for me. That leaves the cockpit.

Most of the dodgers I see on the forum, mine included, slope quickly up from the cabin roof and are quite tall. While giving a lot of headroom, mounting a fixed set of panels above it would put them pretty high up. The type of enclosure that WILL C has on his boat, being level with the cabin roof, would make this an easy option.

I don't mean to add another question mark for you, but you might want to make this one of your considerations.

 

[localboy]

My one would, could, shoulda is this. Get the bungee looped attachments around the bottom, like Roger had on his boat. We have snaps and wish we had the bungees.

We tow with the bimini rolled up, covered and tied against the cabin. No issues.

We had a simple bag made with a draw-string top and use a foam noodle in the center. I used to even place old sheets in between each panel, but that became a PIA, so I abandoned it. I'm just careful now in how I stack them.

 

[Sunbeam]

Will-C,

Heh, no problem - I know my own foibles

NIce looking camperback on your boat. I like how the higher roof of the Cape Cruiser/Venture allows for a straight-topped bimini.

Anchorout: Thanks for mentioning solar panels. I have thought about mounting them to the bimini top - a friend did that on his sailboat and it worked out well. And I probably won't need to have a huge "hump" in mine as I'm not that tall. I won't make it super short, but not going to accommodate giants either. However, I think I have decided against the idea of mounting panels there in any case. Here's why: I like to be able to stow the bimini top (I do have a bimini now) and have "access to the sky" sometimes. But I'm lazy so if it's a hassle I won't do it. Also, I will be taking the bimini/camperback down each time I trailer, so that again would be panels and wiring to remove and find a home for.

So, I think I"m going to put mine on the boat roof. They will be covered by my kayak (or dinghy) when I'm underway (because I don't think I want the type of jungle gym that would be required to have them over the dinghy). But here's what I'm thinking: When I'm underway, the alternator is going, so my batteries are being charged that way. If I make a brief stop (and don't unload the dinghy) then the batteries should still be fine. If I'm making a longer stop I will usually have the dinghy down (or could put it own, or even deflate it if necessary), and the panels will be open to the sky. A slight compromise, but it will leave the bimini free and clear for optional stowing and easier transition to the road.

I could see mounting the panels on the bimini though, depending on one's situation (say if you didn't trailer often, and/or left the bimini up most all the time). It works great for my buddy who has them on his sailboat bimini - he always has the bimini up, and only hauls out once every couple of years or so.

On towing for the road: I hadn't thought about possibly being able to stow the camperback under a "sausage" cover on the frame (I can't do that now because my bimini frame will not stow forward). I'll have to see if that is an option.

Thanks all,
Sunbeam

 

[ghone]

We've been using Go Power portable solar panel this summer. It folds like a suitcase and stores in the cockpit while underway. It can be placed on the dock if moored , or once anchored and the dinghy afloat we set the panel on the cabin top Works fine so far. Just added a second 60 watt unit so we can produce 100 watts now. Both panels go in thier case and stow with the deckchairs while underway