"New" C-Dory Project

[garyf]

Hello all - figured I'd toss this out there to see what I catch.

My father was a regular in here some time ago... looks like he made over a couple hundred posts. User name is C-Bill. His boat is a '91 22-ft Cruiser.

Some of you may (or may not) have noticed he hasn't posted in some time. His health has been failing over the past few years, and now has dementia to the point that I had to put him in a memory care home.

His boat is now one of many things on my "to-do" list. I will likely be selling it at some point... but not in a super hurry to do so. I want to first get up to speed on it, check it all out, fix or at least make note of any problems, etc.

Problem is, I don't really *know* this boat. We didn't live near each other, so I've only been out on it a few times with him... and obviously I was not a part of the day-to-day & year-to-year maintenance of it. I'm a fairly quick study though, and he kept pretty much every scrap of paper related to his boat (and truck)... I've got some homework to do.

The other problem is - in his current condition, he cannot help me... so I'm going in blind.

Any of you who knew him, met him, or conversed in here with him know that he's a very detail-oriented person and he took *very* good care of his "babies" (his boat and truck).

Any advice on how to approach this project or "how you would do it if it were you" would be appreciated. Overall, I think the boat is in extremely good shape for its age (or any age, for that matter)... but it's been sitting on the RV pad at his house for a number of years now. Fully covered with a custom cover, and the batteries have been on trickle charge... but that's about it - just sitting there. I am certain he prepared it for a period of storage at the beginning of this period and it's in a dry climate, so no mold/mildew issues or anything like that. The fuel tanks are brand new - never been used.

One thing I need to do soon is get a new cover - the sun is finally winning the battle with it. Instead of going with a full custom cover like he has, I'm leaning more towards a good quality semi-custom. Can anyone suggest a source?

Other than that - please chime in with how I should approach things, in what order, etc.

I haven't had a chance to do a deep dive through all of his stuff and/or documentation, so I have a lot to learn. I have run across a brand new transducer that we was apparently going to install but never did, and also a brand new Furuno GPS that has never been installed. Last time I rode with him, I'm fairly certain he had a GPS... so he must have been upgrading or something? Not sure. Some of you may remember that he was a fan of Loran-C and was SURE it would be revived... yes, he still has that installed. :disgust

Input much appreciated.

- Son of C-Bill

 

[potter water]

Judging by your questions, I think the first step is to take the boat to a good marine surveyor and let him or her talk you through the condition of the boat and to make recommendations. The loran definitely needs to go. But, it is likely that with the years that have passed there are mostly clean up, de-clutter involved. But a surveyor will be well worth the moneyfor what may be found, but more importantly what you can be taught about the boat as you follow him or her around.

 

[South of Heaven]

Gary, I was looking through your father's photo album. He has some great ones and I can tell he loved the boat! I especially like the pic of the old C Dory factory! Very neat.

Good luck with your "new" boat and I hope your Dad's health improves.

 

[thataway]

Welcome aboard! We are sorry to hear about your dad's health. We have had to deal with dementia in close friends and family, so know what you have to deal with.

Are you going to keep and use the boat or sell it? If keeping my advice would be different than selling.

This is one time I don't agree with Potter Water--mostly because I don't have much faith in the majority of marine surveyors. Specifically with a cored hull boat...even more specifically C Dory..

Angola Canvas is the best bet for a cover. If you take a photo of the boat, and where re-inforcements are located, if radar, radar arch, fish rod holders etc--they customize the cover.

Angola Canvas web site.

First off is checking the status of the engine. Hopefully if there are new tanks, the engine was drained of fuel. Specifically the carburetor. From his posts, we know he put in new fuel lines Oct 20, 2010. (and I believe his last post. We assume that the boat has not run since. First thing to do is to see of the engine turns over (by pulling the cowl and gently rocking the flywheel.

Unfortunately you are in Calif. where you cannot get un-leaded fuel, except Aviation gas. The good news is that the boat has two Yamaha (main 90 and kicker) and most likely they will be fine. I believe your dad is 79 or 80, and reading his posts he did seem to love Loran! Not positive what the larger instrument shown in the cabin photo is, but he has a couple of antennas.

I am sure a good wash and vacuum, check for critters and check the condition of the batteries...I would probably replace them--but have them load tested at an auto parts store first. Before firing off the engine, I would pull the plugs, check the plug condition, and at that time put in a squirt of light oil (not WD 40)(in each cyl) (and hand turn the flywheel clock wise for a few turns just to be sure it is free, and a little coating on the cyl. walls.

Keep asking questions here, take photos, and post so we can make suggestions if you have questions.

 

[garyf]

Judging by your questions, I think the first step is to take the boat to a good marine surveyor and let him or her talk you through the condition of the boat and to make recommendations.

Thanks for the recommendation. I think the key is "good" marine surveyor. I don't know what I have available in the area (good or bad)... but I'll keep my ears tuned.

 

[garyf]

Welcome aboard! We are sorry to hear about your dad's health. We have had to deal with dementia in close friends and family, so know what you have to deal with.

Thanks. It is extremely rough. He appears to have a lesser-known form of dementia known as 'Lewy Body' which brings some added behaviors like hallucinations, delusions, aggression, etc - and since his background is mostly military and law enforcement, there's a lot stored away that his mind can play tricks with. During one of my visits to his house (before I put him in the home) he told me about a huge 'gun battle' that he recently had in the house - someone came in to attack him - over 100 shots fired! It was obvious that it was very real to him. Very sad.

Are you going to keep and use the boat or sell it? If keeping my advice would be different than selling.

Tough question, to be honest. I really enjoy being out on the water and am now living in an area with some good water options nearby. In the long run, I'm not sure if I will be able to use it enough to justify the expenses of registration, insurance, maintenance, etc. Overall, I'm leaning towards selling it - but I'm going to take my time with that decision. Feel free to qualify your recommendations accordingly as we move forward. I may very well fall in love with it and decide to keep it for awhile.

This is one time I don't agree with Potter Water--mostly because I don't have much faith in the majority of marine surveyors. Specifically with a cored hull boat...even more specifically C Dory.

Going to play that one by ear. I don't have a lot of experience with marine surveyors... but share your lack of faith with inspector-type people in general. I have no doubt that I could learn a *lot* from the right person(s)... but also aware that the wrong person could do just as much damage to my knowledge.

Angola Canvas is the best bet for a cover. If you take a photo of the boat, and where re-inforcements are located, if radar, radar arch, fish rod holders etc--they customize the cover.

Thanks, dropped them a line.

First off is checking the status of the engine. Hopefully if there are new tanks, the engine was drained of fuel. Specifically the carburetor. From his posts, we know he put in new fuel lines Oct 20, 2010. (and I believe his last post. We assume that the boat has not run since. First thing to do is to see of the engine turns over (by pulling the cowl and gently rocking the flywheel.

I would be extremely surprised... shocked, even... to find that the engines were not properly prepped for storage. When growing up, he worked at a boat shop in the bay area for awhile. Throughout his adult life, he worked on friends' outboards on the side. The main 90 has very few hours on it. I haven't checked the counter yet, but I'm guessing it's somewhere between 20 and 30.

The good news is that the boat has two Yamaha (main 90 and kicker) and most likely they will be fine. I believe your dad is 79 or 80, and reading his posts he did seem to love Loran! Not positive what the larger instrument shown in the cabin photo is, but he has a couple of antennas.

He's 78 as of June 4th. Too much love for Loran I think - LOL - but it was familiar to him, so there you go. The two antennas were for Marine VHF and Loran. I'm not sure what kind of coax and what kind of mount he has for the Loran antenna... but it may very well be re-purposed for a dual-bander antenna :wink

Oh - is there a good way to list only his posts (and in chronological order)? I haven't found that yet. I searched on his username and came up with posts, but the threads were included and didn't seem to be in order. That will help me reconstruct things.

I am sure a good wash and vacuum, check for critters and check the condition of the batteries...I would probably replace them--but have them load tested at an auto parts store first. Before firing off the engine, I would pull the plugs, check the plug condition, and at that time put in a squirt of light oil (not WD 40)(in each cyl) (and hand turn the flywheel clock wise for a few turns just to be sure it is free, and a little coating on the cyl. walls.

Keep asking questions here, take photos, and post so we can make suggestions if you have questions.

Will do and thanks much for the advice.

 

[thataway]

garyf, I am a retired Internist, and have a fair amount of experience with Lewy Body disease. I am sending you a private message via this site.

Click on your dad's screen name " profile". That will bring you to link on the right side of the page, to his posts in chronological reverse order. You can read them there. I have.

I hope that you keep the boat in the family. My son has recently acquired a c Dory 25 and is enjoying it immensely.

Regards

 

[hardee]

garyf, as an option to a marine surveyor, see if you can find a reputable C-BRAT in your area, or close to where the boat is and have them meet you and go over the boat with you, maybe take you out, after the engine has been checked and is running. There may be someone who is willing to help with that, and give you a chance to get to try the boat out and see if you want to keep it. I would highly recommend that, and keeping it. Could be a link to your Dad for you and your family, and a source of good recreational pleasure for years to come. that is not something you will get from a surveyor.

Best in your future decisions, and sympathies in dealing with your fathers loos of memories and function. Not easy to see him slip away in that manner.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[garyf]

Not positive what the larger instrument shown in the cabin photo is, but he has a couple of antennas.

Had a little bit of time yesterday to climb through a hole in the cover and check out the cabin and cockpit. No surprises there.

I also took a quick look at the electronics (stored inside the house). The larger instrument you saw in the cabin photo is a 90's era Furuno FCV-522 CRT based "Color Video Sounder" - lol. I love how Furuno's description calls it "compact".

I'm a little amazed that dad didn't update the fish finder with something newer. He was always looking for an edge to get those trophy fish and fish finder technology has changed quite a bit over the last 20 years!

So now I guess I've got a dilemma if I'm thinking about keeping this thing. He's got museum pieces currently "installed" in the boat - the Furuno sounder and a Loran-C navigator (he used a portable GPS as well... but not installed).

If that was it, the choice wouldn't be so tough - dump those two units and get something new. But of course, it's never that easy. In the house, he's got a "brand new" never installed Furuno GPS/WAAS navigator... I didn't jot down the model number and it's probably not a "current" one, it's a few years old. And... he's got a brand new, still in box, never installed, transducer (and cowl(?)) for his ancient sounder.

Am I wrong in thinking that the "right" thing to do is just sell the "new in box" stuff, donate the sounder to a museum and get some sort of decent but not outrageous combo unit? I'm really not interested in buying a $5k unit - but isn't there some decent units for under $2k?

Any recommendations in this area? (not to buy this second, but put on the "to-do" list... I know I have a lot of work to do elsewhere first - but I obviously need to make some decisions before I get to the "installing the new electronics" stage. Particularly the transducer. It looks to be a "through the hull" type. A Furuno transducer isn't necessarily going to be compatible with a non-Furuno combo unit, is it?

 

[RobLL]

Here in the Puget Sound most day-boaters do not have radar or plot charters. Most boats in marinas do. I would guess that most C-Dories do have this equipment - we tend to be more serious about boating.

Charts and a smart phone apps are enough for taking a boat out for tests and trial runs. You don't want to run aground. Obviously do this in the daylight. I would add a hand held marine radio, they are only a couple hundred dollars.

A few years ago when buying a boat son and I priced what it would cost to update to all new electronics. $4-5000 would do it including installation.

 

[hardee]

Garyf, if you are going to keep the boat, what are your intended uses? That, for me at least, would make a huge difference in what to do as far as the electronics go.

Yes there are a lot of boats out in the sound that do not have radar. I would venture that 75% or better have some sort of GPS / plotter with at least reasonable capability. If all you want is a day boat, and short, close to shore fishing, a small GPS unit and a handheld VHF will do, but there is significant difference in the range capability of a 25 watt, fixed mount VHF and a 5 or 6 watt handheld portable. I would submit that you should have both, but then, I spent years teaching safety classes, and practicing duplicit redundancy in safety and emergency applications.

Take your time and think things through. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither was the Titantic, so applied logic is your friend. If you are using the boat in land locked lakes, it is different than in the Puget Sound or the open California coast. Ask questions here, as you are doing, and you can get good, sound and helpful answers.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[garyf]

A few years ago when buying a boat son and I priced what it would cost to update to all new electronics. $4-5000 would do it including installation.

That's good info, thanks. There is VHF installed in the boat and also have a handheld... I don't see a particular need to do anything in that area. I don't really anticipate needing radar either - at least that's the current thinking.

Garyf, if you are going to keep the boat, what are your intended uses? That, for me at least, would make a huge difference in what to do as far as the electronics go.

Agree completely (huge difference). I spent a lot of time up in your area years ago, so know the area pretty well. My ex's family is from that area. Most of what you have is salt water. Down here, we have access to some fantastic fresh water - Folsom, Tahoe, Shasta, Almanor, etc are all 2-3 hours away from me. I'm thinking 90% of my usage would be fresh water. Yes, I'm sure I'll take an occasional trip out on the delta / SF bay and maybe even beyond... maybe to go crabbing or something... but I see that as only an occasional thing. I see GPS/plotter as a necessity. Not seeing the need for radar so far. Just to check my thinking - the main reason for radar would be fog/storms/high traffic environments? I don't see much if any of that in my future, really, although there's always the potential of a "surprise".

But there is significant difference in the range capability of a 25 watt, fixed mount VHF and a 5 or 6 watt handheld portable. I would submit that you should have both, but then, I spent years teaching safety classes, and practicing duplicit redundancy in safety and emergency applications.

Oh, I absolutely agree there. I think the existing VHF radio(s) are serviceable at this point, and for that type of radio there's no need to chase the latest features (in my opinion, at least). I'll also likely have ham radio options on board since I'm a ham.

Take your time and think things through. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither was the Titantic, so applied logic is your friend.

Haha - very true!

Really appreciating having a place to bounce ideas around - learning a lot here. You guys might hook me after all.

 

[thataway]

It didn't hit me that could have been the Furuno Furuno FCV-522 CRT--for its day it was a very very good unit. Most likely the GPS your dad had was a GPS 30 or 32. These are dated--and don't have the chart plotter. I am not sure even museums want those older units--lots around--but some folks do pick them up for parts..

You can get a good GPS/ sounder from Garmin such as the 741 xs which has all of the lakes and US coast line, for less than $1,000, watch for sales. Down to the echo-map 5xxx, where you can get the US shore or US lakes for less than $500. Some of the other brands have decent chart plotters/sounders as low as $300.
Raymarine has the Dragonfly 4Pro, with general US charts, and sounder for under $300.

Most are going to use transom mounts--I prefer to mount a block of HDPE on the transom, --with the screw holes predrilled, and filled with thickened epoxy, to avoid any potential of water intrusion into the transom. That way you can move the transducer to get the best performance, and not worry about the screws. You will probably pull the old thru hull and then plug the hole. using layers of glass, and perhaps a dowel core, glass on the inside--epoxy is best for this rather than polyester resin.

The only issue with the radio, is it probably does not have DSC. Not an essential--but you know how much 2 meters have changed in the last 20 years...or not..

I agree with the radar. If you do much Delta and SF bay cruising--then definitely get Radar--but that would be the only reason.

You do have a parcel of lakes. You may want a lower pitch prop--if you dad didn't have one for over 3000 and over 7000 foot lakes... Also trim tabs and Permatrim foil will help the performance and ride if not already present.

Hey--we can spend your money fast for you!

I am glad you are consider keeping the boat. I know your dad would be honored!

 

[garyf]

Most are going to use transom mounts--I prefer to mount a block of HDPE on the transom, --with the screw holes predrilled, and filled with thickened epoxy, to avoid any potential of water intrusion into the transom. That way you can move the transducer to get the best performance, and not worry about the screws. You will probably pull the old thru hull and then plug the hole. using layers of glass, and perhaps a dowel core, glass on the inside--epoxy is best for this rather than polyester resin.

This sounds really good - when the time comes, I may hit you up for a drawing or picture or other reference just to make sure I'm on the same page re: the transom mount.

The only issue with the radio, is it probably does not have DSC. Not an essential--but you know how much 2 meters have changed in the last 20 years...or not..

Thanks for pointing out DSC... I was not aware of it. Sounds very handy.

 

[thataway]

Photo below part way along the installation of the HDPE board on the transom. Cable Clam above, to give waterproof transit of cable thru the transom. In my album before this photo are several, about cutting out core, putting in the thickened epoxy, and then prep of the HDPE for attachment to the transom. Current C Dory 22 has a standard transducer (as the one in the photo,) plus the long and larger down scan transducer was added later. Both transducers are on the same block now. Since the CHIRP and Down Scan is a different frequency than the standard sonar, there is no interference.



The other feature that some of the high end radios have is AIS reception. I find this very helpful in areas congested with commercial vessels. Also some new high end radios have auto fog horn (and loud hailer), plus recording of last transmission reception. (For example if someone gives a lat and long of distress, you can go back and listen again to confirm you have the correct position).

For DSC to work properly you have to have an MMSI number--if just to be used in the USA, you can use the numbers from Sea Tow, Boat US, or a few other organizations for a low fee. Or you can use your FCC Registration Number (FRN) and get the official ship's license and international MMSI # (valid if you are going into foreign waters)--unlikely in your case...but a whole new alphabet soup! Also if you don't already have a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit, you should have that for the marine VHF radio (even though you are a ham!)...crazy, since there is no test for the RROP...I got mine over 60 years ago--and no one has ever asked to see it...

 

[hardee]

Stuff clipped:

The only issue with the radio, is it probably does not have DSC. Not an essential--but you know how much 2 meters have changed in the last 20 years...or not..

Thanks for pointing out DSC... I was not aware of it. Sounds very handy.

There is plenty of discussion on the site about DSC and it's applications (uses). Yes it is new(er) and modern technology. Yes it can be VERY helpful in an emergency. Yes it can be useful in communication with other vessels. AND YES, you will have to have a number from the FCC (or BoatUS, or Power Squadron) that is called MMSI # and it has to be entered into the VHF radio. And Yes, the radio will have to have GPS either inside or input from an external GPS device. All easily doable and can be don relatively inexpensively. I am not advocating keeping an old, non DSC radio as your only VHF, but that a new(er) DSC capable VHF be added or installed as a replacement. That will allow the "One Button" Emergency transmission for a Mayday Call that none of us ever want to do.

That "One Button" call takes 5 seconds to get out who you are, where you are, what you are - boat info, size, typical passenger load, and onboard safety equipment. All while you are getting ready to get into the water, not answering a dozen questions from the Coast Guard.

A good, well setup VHF is probably your most important on board safety device. Well, next to common sense.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[starcrafttom]

Hi, I used to live in Placerville and have fished all the lakes you are talking about and the delta. I never even saw a boat with radar until I moved to washingon so I would not really bother with getting one. You can get a modern fish finder / chart plotter for around 400 to 600 dollars. fish finder Here is one example that will do everything you need for $500.

I fished all the lakes in the sierras for years with out a depth finder at all and never with a chart plotter. They did not exist back then . My fish fish finder was a 3 inch screen with no map. I thought it was the greats thing at the time. I can buy the equivalent unit today , only much better , for under a hundred bucks. Enjoy the boat.

 

[sculpin]

I think the idea of having an experienced CBrat look at the boat is great. Might give you better advice than a surveyor. Also the surveyor is going to cost. Maybe it would be worthwhile to have a good outboard mechanic go over the engines, service them and advise you on their condition.

It would be great if you kept the boat and used it and really enjoyed it, but boating isn't for everyone and you may have other priorities. If that is the case you may decide to sell. If you're going to sell you probably don't want to put much money into the boat other than cleaning it up and servicing the engines.

A lot of good ideas from Cbrats on this topic. Good luck.

 

[sculpin]

I think the idea of having an experienced CBrat look at the boat is great. Might give you better advice than a surveyor. Also the surveyor is going to cost. Maybe it would be worthwhile to have a good outboard mechanic go over the engines, service them and advise you on their condition.

It would be great if you kept the boat and used it and really enjoyed it, but boating isn't for everyone and you may have other priorities. If that is the case you may decide to sell. If you're going to sell you probably don't want to put much money into the boat other than cleaning it up and servicing the engines.

A lot of good ideas from Cbrats on this topic. Good luck.

 

[garyf]

I took the old cover off today... wanted to wait until I had a reasonable idea where I was going to get a new cover and what the turnaround time would be.

Overall things look darn good cosmetically - haven't seen any obvious problems with the gelcoat or anything. Like pretty much everything else he owns, it doesn't at all look as old as it is.

One question I have is relates to the way he has the VHF antenna mounted - picture below. This is the way it was under the cover... and the cover had a sock in it to handle this.

Am I correct in thinking the sock should be able to be eliminated??? At minimum, it seems like the top part could be removed all the way down to the lower joint... and possibly the lower part could even be removed, although I'd be worried about repetitive use of the threads in the block of whatever material he has attached to the roof (I'm afraid to say it actually looks like it might be wood... but tough be sure in the blinding Nevada sun right now).

The good news is, he removed the Loran-C antenna mount and patched the roof where it was. I bet that was tough for him to admit Loran was history.

This weekend's goal was to figure out the details I need to send to the cover company so I can get the new cover on the way... so I need to make a decision about this mount.

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