New C Dory owner here, fuel tank issue

Sunbeam,

I'm ordering the tanks today and am going to pull the old ones out and get to work drying out whatever is under those screw! A few more questions for you. I looked up the frp angle from McMaster Carr and see it comes in different sizes, curious what size you were using? 1 1/4"? Also you mentioned gluing them down with thickened epoxy, is the weld-mount adhesive no good for these angles? You also mentioned maybe using the Welshman studs, are those the round base threaded type? Would you just use them without any screws to hold the tank in place? I also noticed my bilge pump is screwed into the deck the same way. I might as well address that at the same time, do you think the foot plates with some kind of strapping to hold down the pump would work? I'd like to do all the gluing at once as I'm sure once you open a tube of this stuff it's a once and done deal. Thanks again!! :D
 
Emurph8, not sure what bilge pump you have but no screws at all can be had with one of the Rule pumps that has the plastic basket. I'd take out the pump you have and seal those holes properly (undercut, etc), fill and then stick the basket down to the flat deck with 3M 4200 or 5200. Baskets rarely break but the pumps do. If it does, later, you can replace it by snapping the old one out and snapping a new one in to the same basket. I did it on a TC255 and they are very hard to reach..

Charlie
 
Emurph8":12p6imzy said:
I'm ordering the tanks today and am going to pull the old ones out and get to work drying out whatever is under those screw!
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Go you!

Emurph8":12p6imzy said:
A few more questions for you. I looked up the frp angle from McMaster Carr and see it comes in different sizes, curious what size you were using? 1 1/4"?
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I think I am using the 1-1/4" for my battery hold downs and the tank side cleats, but IIRC I ordered the 1-1/2" for the forward fuel tank location. Not because it's needed for strength, but because I want to anchor the cover panel to that angle, and also (since I don't want a footman loop in the way there) I'm going to anchor the strap to it in front (may saw slot or use rivet, not sure yet). So I wanted a little more "meat" on the upward angle flange. Now if I were done with this project, I could be posting photos to illustrate ;)

[Edited to add: I looked up what I had ordered from McMaster-Carr and it is these two items:

8542K67 1-1/4" x 1-1/4" x 5' angle, 1/8" wall thickness
8542K11 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" x 5' angle, 3/16" wall thickness

I'm using the first one for most everything, but the second one for the forward fuel-tank cleats, as mentioned.]

Emurph8":12p6imzy said:
Also you mentioned gluing them down with thickened epoxy, is the weld-mount adhesive no good for these angles?
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I think it would probably work fine, but I'm leaning toward thickened epoxy for a few reasons. First, I'm going to use one continuous cleat (although one could use, say, three shorter sections), and the hull has a bit of curvature there, so there will be a bit of gap in the center. The methacrylate glue (Weld Mount) is apparently gap-filling to some extent, but I'm not as familiar with it, and I have epoxy on hand and know how it will work. So probably not a "must use this only!" situation, but more of weighing various options.

Emurph8":12p6imzy said:
You also mentioned maybe using the [Weld=Mount] studs, are those the round base threaded type? Would you just use them without any screws to hold the tank in place?
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If I did use them, I would use the studs, coming up through the angle, and then nuts on top. The reason I'm thinking I won't is that I'm tucking the "floor leg" of the angle under the tank slightly, and so I'm not sure I want that nut there (also it could potentially end up contacting the tank at some point). You're supposed to leave a certain percentage gap for future tank expansion (IIRC I calculated it and it's about 1/2" on our size tank), and I will do that, but if I have nuts there I'd have to then have *another* 1/2" after those. Of course one could run the angle flange forward instead, as another option.

Emurph8":12p6imzy said:
I also noticed my bilge pump is screwed into the deck the same way. I might as well address that at the same time...
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Yep, I'm doing the same! I have two bilge pumps. The one under the galley was held down by a glob of caulk, so no holes to deal with. The one in the after bilge sump was held down with screws, and although that depressed area would seem like it would be un-cored... nope... I'm pretty sure there is some core there. So I'm going to do some digging around and whatever fixing is necessary.

For re-mounting the pump, I got some of the really small Weld-Mount studs (I think #8 by 3/4") and will use them to hold the basket down (there is room for them to be hidden inside the basket). But you could equally use a "mush" of thickened epoxy, a glob of polyurethane caulk, etc. (then you have to sort of tear the basket out vs. undoing the nuts, but probably not done that often).

Emurph8":12p6imzy said:
Do you think the foot plates with some kind of strapping to hold down the pump would work?
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I think that would be awkward, so I'd go with the small studs or the glob of thickened epoxy or adhesive caulk (say, 4200).

Emurph8":12p6imzy said:
I'd like to do all the gluing at once as I'm sure once you open a tube of this stuff it's a once and done deal.
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Actually you can go back and re-use it later (either the AT-1030 in the "hand" applicator or the other glues with the gun). Just be SURE not to get any of the one "half" of the glue on the other side of the applicator. Also, it likes to be stored cool. I've re-used my 1030 a few times now.
 
Wow! Awesome info! I can't wait to get started! As usual, thanks for the great help!! I don't have the fiberglass skirts that cover the tank so I may just turn the angle the other way. I like the idea of cutting a slot in it for the strap. Probably use a router. Great ideas!
 
And given your location, there is a good chance that you will get all orders from McMaster-Carr "overnight"-- even though you'll only be paying their normal (not bad) shipping cost. I had that advantage until they changed the local [UPS] hub (still it's only two days, but that overnight was slick!). I just love their catalog - even the online one is so usable.

Another idea, again, given your location: For one year (when I was deep into a boat project - different boat though), I joined Jamestown Distributors' "VIP" program. I think it was around $39 for a year. With that, you get free shipping on just about everything. Even better than "just" the free shipping, was that I no longer felt I had to "save up" orders, and if I needed one more paintbrush or ten screws.... I'd order them and they'd arrive magically; I never had to feel like "Oh no, I can't pay $10 shipping for a $5 part." On the east coast, it's also really quick shipping even though it's "ground."

(Doesn't always take the place of McMaster-Carr, and not always the cheapest prices, but something to consider for certain situations.)

It's fun how C-Brats can give us C-Doryers virtual camaraderie when doing similar projects :thup
 
I got her in the garage!! no exaggeration, it cleared the width by 1/2" had to let half the air out of the tires and take the horns off to clear the height and the motor is 1" away from the back wall and the tounge clears the garage door by 3"!!!! I pulled the old tanks out and began cleaning 22 years worth of sludge that was under them. Question; I know I don't need the fuel sending unit or fuel gauge and I will remove those wires but there is a white wire running from each tank is it part of the sending unit? Or some kind of ground wire? Can it be removed? Are there any wires at all on the new tanks? Also I guess it would be wise to replace the fuel hoses while I'm at it. Any tips on where to buy those?
Thanks again, I love this forum!!!

Emurph [/img]
 
The white wire is probably a ground. You do not need any wiring for the plastic tanks. Definitely replace the fuel hoses--both fill, vent and the hoses to the filter/filters. Be sure that these are of marine quality. I usually buy these from West Marine, although they may not be the cheapest. You want fuel hoses which are USCG certified, alcohol resistant and UV resistant. You want the proper size (measure) for fuel fill, vent and fuel line. I would want at least 5/16" for the fuel line to the engine. 3/8" is probably better. The cost difference is minimal.
 
Congrats on getting it in the garage. Sounds shoehorned! But hey, it's in there :thup Wish I had one.

I would still confirm on the actual tanks, but on the tank drawings (and I believe on the tanks I received), the sizes are as follows:

--Fuel fill is 1-1/2"
(Check your boat's fill fittings too, but 1-1/2" is common and is what was on my 22.)

--Vent hose fitting is 5/8"
(Again, check your boat too but this is a common size.)

--Pickup (fuel supply to engine, etc.) is 5/16"

I did buy all new hose - I couldn't see reusing the old once I was "in there." Also, it's unlikely the lengths will be exactly right as compared to your old tanks, and old hose is a bear to work with (stiff).

As Thisaway says, be sure to get proper marine hose (Trident is one good brand). There are specific types of hoses for fuel. The fill hose should be double-clamped (I like to use AWAB clamps). Someplace like Jamestown Distributors or Defender (both in your general neck of the woods) will have these items, as should West Marine, Fisheries, etc.

If you can get a "swan neck" (upward loop) on your vent hose just after it enters the boat, all the better for keeping water out; on my boat the fitting is so high up that I don't really have space for that without moving the hole. There is also a Marelon vent fitting that does this via a series of "traps," but again, I don't have room for it (you need 1-1/2" above the center of the vent hole; my gunwale is too close). If you can't fit one of these things, at least make sure the entry hole in the vent fitting is pointing in the least "scoopy" direction possible.

Sunbeam :hot
 
I'm cleaning up under where the old tanks were and got a better look at the wires. There is a white wire that is attached to the underside of the fuel fill cap is that part of the fuel gauge I don't need anymore? Or is it some kind of ground / static spark thing? Not sure, I want to make sure I do this right but with plastic tanks I don't know what it would be for? As usual thanks!!
 
Will-C":255unmba said:
Here is the fuel vent we switched to from West Marine, the switch did not require much to swap out.
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That's a nice looking vent, and I wanted to switch to those for the fuel-tank vents on my 22 cruiser, BUT...

There is a minimum required height clearance as measured inside the boat from the center of the vent hole in the fiberglass. If I remember correctly it is 1-1/2". I found that there was not enough clearance on my 22 cruiser -- the hole/vent were placed high up, and there is not enough clearance to the underside of the gunwale.

I think different boats/years have the fuel vents builder-placed at different heights, so a person might want to check and measure. I could install these, but I would have to either carve out some of the deck core from under the gunwale and re-glass (I think this would give me enough clearance but I'm not positive yet), or glass the hole and re-drill it lower (or disuse the current hole and make a new one elsewhere).

So, something to check on.

Sunbeam :hot
 
Emurph8":1qmbh5qb said:
I'm cleaning up under where the old tanks were and got a better look at the wires. There is a white wire that is attached to the underside of the fuel fill cap is that part of the fuel gauge I don't need anymore? Or is it some kind of ground / static spark thing? Not sure, I want to make sure I do this right but with plastic tanks I don't know what it would be for? As usual thanks!!
Click to expand...

Emurph8-

The white wire(s) are designed to prevent static electricity from creating a spark, fire and/or explosion in the fuel storage/tank system.

Filling the tank with fuel can generate a static charge as gas is delivered into the tank.

To eliminate build up of a dangerous charge, the tank, fuel gauge, and fuel inlet fitting on the gunnel are all grounded together with (white) wires that become grounded externally to the delivery nozzle and, in turn, the gas station fuel pump when the metal nozzle is placed against the fuel fill. This grounds everything so no charge remains when the fill is complete.

Is there no metal grounding fitting on your new plastic tank? If not, I suggest you call the tank supplier/manufacturer to find out what the correct procedure is for dealing with plastic replacement tank installation: do they need to be grounded, and if so, how?

Hope this helps!

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Our boat is a 23' Venture, but I was told about these fuel vents by folks who had also installed them in 22' Cruisers that had issues with spray getting in the factory installed fuel vents. I just took the old vents out and installed the new ones and reattached the vent hoses. We had a Scout center console that came with these same Attwood style fuel vent which had a single 55 gallon tank. Our fuel vents were at different heights on each side of our boat. They must have just eyeballed the locations at the factory.
D.D.
 
Thanks. I understand grounding the fuel fill but the tanks don't have sending units, no metal at all. Seems like as long as the fuel fill cap is grounded I should be good? Is that the set up on the newer boats with the translucent tanks?
 
I'm getting ready to install my new tanks. The shape of the tank seems to be made to fit tight up against the side of the boat. The only problem with this Is my fuel water separator is in the way. I was thinking of moving the separator to the space in between the tanks. It would be easy to change and drain the filter. Does anybody have any experience with this set up? And am I correct in pushing the tanks tight up against the sides?
Thanks! And I hope everybody has a Great Holiday!
 
My original tanks (similarly shaped, but 25-gallon) were up against the hull sides, and I plan to put my new tanks in the same way.

I have seen the fuel/water separators in a couple of different places:

1) On the inside of the transom between the tanks

2) On the starboard side-wall of the motorwell

If you are going to continue with your easily movable Sunbrella tank skirt (vs. hard panels fastened in place), I think you could also mount it above the starboard side tank in what would otherwise be unused space (the 23-gallon tanks have quite a bit of room above them). I considered that but I think I may use the hard panels, and I want to be able to get to the filter without having to remove panels with tools. I am putting some things there that don't need often/instant access though, such as the HPU for the trim tabs.

My boat came with the f/w separator in position #1, however I have removed it during my projects. I'm thinking I will probably replace it in position #2, possibly with a small Sunbrella "bonnet" to keep some of the salt spray off.

I also replaced the "largeish" original separator with a smaller one. It's not only more compact, but seems to have better options for fuel hose connections (routing). I'll run out and look to see which model it is in a bit and then report back.

Sunbeam :hot
 
Thanks Sunbeam!
My current separator won't fit above the tank and I'm not sure I want it out in elements. I would be curious to see what model you have and maybe I could put it above the tank on the starboard side. My other idea was to hold the tanks about 8" away from the side but I don't really want to do that either. If what you have fits above the tank I may go that route. Otherwise I was thinking of mounting it to a piece of wood that I would attach to the under side of the splash well in between the tanks. The problem with this is I would waste some good storage space.
Thanks for the info!
 
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