Need for kicker?

The reason that I carry a kicker is that I may not be able to "fix" the next outboard problem! (And this includes carrying a spare prop for when you spin out the hub!--and a bunch of tools, plus a few essential spares.)
 
thataway":34b0jk8t said:
The reason that I carry a kicker is that I may not be able to "fix" the next outboard problem! (And this includes carrying a spare prop for when you spin out the hub!--and a bunch of tools, plus a few essential spares.)
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Well, I have twins AND a kicker........I agree with Bob, the 3.5 tohatsu, nissan, and mercury is enough to move the CD 22 at about 4 mph or so. It is GREAT for slowing down to about nothing MPH to put a plug of herring in front of salmon not in the biting mood. It is also great on the dingy since it is nice and light. I really like mine. It is not great for the rain.....since I have to sit out in it on the tiller......You can't have everything they say....LOL.....
 
thataway":2ncwkirb said:
The reason that I carry a kicker is that I may not be able to "fix" the next outboard problem! (And this includes carrying a spare prop for when you spin out the hub!--and a bunch of tools, plus a few essential spares.)
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Regardless, if you were available, I'd be happy to have you onboard as a mechanic and I suspect that would significantly increase my safety factor.
 
Well, I see that every nuance of having a kicker has been discussed. That doesn't stop me from throwing in my thoughts.

jennykatz said they lost a composite/plastic propeller, which they solved by calling a towing service. I'd like to second that thought. We lost a composite propeller in Cordero Channel, approaching Dent Rapids. Apparently to some seaweed. The 9.9 Honda got us (slowly) to a dock to replace the prop. And then we went through Scheldt Rapids whilst it was still flowing. Fun, but glad we were on a C-dory.

So, here are some thoughts

1. Don't ever use a composite prop. Great idea, fragile. Stainless is the way to go.

2. One doesn't replace a prop in mid stream. Boats drift in current, they just don't stop and you can't always anchor. You need some way to get at and pull the broken prop, usually using a dinghy. So while I carry a spare prop, I understand that I need to get to a safe place to change it.

3. The ideal kicker motor isn't the ideal dinghy motor. The kicker should be like a sail motor, lots of thrust at low speeds. The dinghy motor is the usual high speed outboard that goes zoom.

4. A towing service is great. I don't ever want to count on the service availability at some of the places to which we go. It's not the code of self reliance, it's the reality of being in remote places. That's why we have Journey On.

I believe in kickers, and since we use a dinghy especially at Catalina, we have one motor for 2 purposes.

Boris
 
I have needed a kicker many times, but most recently Last September. We launched from twin bridges marina in Anacortes, to crab and fish off Guemes island and the Tesoro platforms. After leaving our pots to soak for a bit, our main started acting up. Bogging down, overheating and dying.

It's possible we may have been able to limp back to the Marina on the main, maybe... or maybe we would have been dead in the water if we kept running it. Who knows? I would have had to decide whether to go after our gear, or leave them out there, possibly loosing them to kelp rafts and tides. With my 1 year old daughter and wife on board, i would have left the gear.

We had our 9.9 kicker though, and were able to us it to retireive all our pots, and get back to the marina without any trouble.

Fast forward to now, I dont have a kicker anymore but two honda 40s on the new boat. That to me provides the same pice of mind.

A person probably doesnt need a kicker on a small freshwater lake. I couldnt say how many times I either swam the bow line to the shore or used the anchor to throw and pull myself to shore as a teenager in my first $900 boat.

In the ocean, it should be one of a number of potentially life saving devices on board!
 
Two thoughts of my own right now, as I still contemplate everyone's comments and advice. First on SS props. I prefer Aluminum. I'd prefer a prop blade break over a bent output shaft or worse... Aluminum is stronger than the composites, but not as hard as the Stainless. I ran both a Stainless and an Aluminum on my old Searay 268 Sundancer with the Merc 454 and Alpha drive. I saw no difference in performance or fuel.

I hear what most are saying about a kicker for back up. But then what about all the commercial boats running single screw many miles offshore? I guess I am thinking seriously about a kicker in the 5-6 hp range. If I were to do more offshore boating with no one around, I would have very likely gone twins, and probably carry a dinghy. I do tend to believe in preventive maintenance however, and I guess there is a tradeoff somewhere. If this were an I/O or inboard, I probably would not add a kicker for the current boating I do. But again, I think it is a confidence level (and maybe level of faith) in the boat. I am enjoying this discussion though and hearing from all of you.
 
Those commercial boats with single inboards, commonly have super dependable cummins and yanmar diesels. They are also used and maintained more often than most recreational boats. They also have to be safety checked and certified...... and they alot of times have their professional fisherman peers to fall back on if they get into trouble.

The other thing to note... and its just an observation from the PNW. The shipwrecks I see in the estuaries are usually this type of boat.
 
For their HP, single screw commercial fishing boats I'm (a little bit) familiar with have much heavier, slower turning, simpler, and less stressed engines than our recreational boats. They typically run a zillion hours before wearing out. Their keel protects their prop, which is less likely than ours to have a failure.

Seems to me the folks that rely on them day after day, often in lousy weather, know how critical their engine is to their safety, and do their PM. They tend to know their engines pretty well, and notice when something is starting to act up, so it can be taken care of in port, not at sea.
 
"Seems to me the folks that rely on them day after day, often in lousy weather, know how critical their engine is to their safety, and do their PM. They tend to know their engines pretty well, and notice when something is starting to act up, so it can be taken care of in port, not at sea."

And that is really at the crux of things. I think anyone going any distance off shore should be taking the same care of their engines. As I said earlier, if I had more experience or confidence in the newer outboards, I might not even be considering a kicker. None the less, I take care of my mechanicals as if I expected them to take care of me! ;-)
 
I think the idea of proper maintenance of motors is a good thing. But, as with my Malibu Maxx car engine, there is simply not a lot of maintenance that you can do on a modern outboard. Oil changes, belts, if you have them, lower unit oil and impellers and that is about it. No real magic to it. After that, the engine works until you get bad gas, or you hit something, or you suckup a wad of garbage bag and so on. And of course, there is the issue of the engine just quitting because something lets go.

In the Malibu, I pull off the side of the road and call AAA. On the boat, I'm closer to being an airplane than a car when the engine gets poopy (tech term we learn in rocket science school) and I'm a victim of where a liquid medium wishes to take me and whatever the medium wishes to do to me.

Engine failure on a boat is a matter of when not if. That one "when," particularly on big inland waters and the ocean, can be a real bad experience.

I've read lots of books on water safety, boat handling and accident records. Coupled with my own experiences over the last 50 years, not having back-up propulsion on a recreational boat, small or large is gambling with safety.
 
Agree with Susan and Harry -
Simple law of physics -- if it can, sooner or later, it will. Why chance it? For us, not an issue. If you don't have two main engines on the transom, at least have a kicker hooked up and ready to go. The time will come when you 'thank your lucky stars' or better said, 'prudence pays off.'
 
First I wonder why some people experience multiple engine failures? It is either a lack of maintenance, or an engine which is past its useful life span.

I prefer a SS prop--more effeciient. Also if you do happen to have to go thru sand--as I occasinally do at slow speed, no damage to the prop. My spare is aluminum. If you are going to hit a rock--there is also a good chance of lower unit damage to the gear case etc.

Commercial vessels tend to use slower high torque as Richard (Blue Moon) notes. A few use Cummins--I don't see as many of the Yanmar. Those may be more in the sport fishers etc. The slow turning Cats, Lugger, Gardner, Atlas, GM (6-71 on up), One of our local twin screw tug skippers was really upset: one of his Cats failed at 36,000 hours--he usually rebuilds at 50,000! (It was a manufacturing defect).

I/O--not any more reliable than an outboard--maybe less so. We ran about 8 hours to pick up a 26 foot I/O in distress off the outside of one of the Islands in BC. His steering had failed--and he had not taken his kicker (Left it in the "camp" that day!). We got them to an Native Village by about 10 PM so they were warm and had food for the night. I probably would have rigged something to steer that boat with if it had been mine. I have seen broken lower units, broken shifters, water pumps, the same fuel problems the Outboards have etc...

Also a kicker which is not run on a regular basis--may be worse than none at all! I see boats with Kickers "less than 5 hours"--that is a warning sign. That is one of the reasons I use the dinghy motor--It gets run regularly--the dinghy does not plane (OK one person, semi plane at WOT), but many of the lower HP engines are fairly high thrust...Separate fuel source, and can be hand started!
 
A Fishin C":1it9nzun said:
A new Poll:

If you have a kicker, have you had to use it to limp home?

<<Stuff clipped>>

We call it a come-home kicker. When you do have an issue with your main do you come home on your own, or call for a tow? :lol: :roll:
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Yes to both questions, the OP's and to A Fishin C. And we're glad we did.

The reasons we needed a kicker to "limp home" were due to electrical issues and not with the mechanical workings of the very reliable Suzuki DF90. The first time we were in Padilla Bay on the way to Bellingham when we started having problems with the Power Tilt/Trip. It started raising and lowering the engine all on it's own until it was stuck. We had to limp home on the kicker about 8-10 miles. The kicker worked fine, running at hull speed with increasing winds. The fix; replacement of the Trim/Tilt relay, about $15.

The second time was due to operator error :embarrased . I shorted a loose wire while trying to reconnect and it blew the fuse from the ignition to the engine. I couldn't find the fuse (even with Starcraft Tom's help) and had to limp home about 15 miles on a gorgeous summer Saturday in the San Juans's. (I now know where that 15amp fuse is located) The fix: a $1.00 15 amp fuse + a much larger bill from our mechanic to trace the problem. :cry

We keep both motors well-maintained each season and have been very lucky and happy with both of our Suzuki motors. There wasn't a whole lot I could have done about a bad relay switch and I realized I need to be a little smarter about connecting loose wire while in the middle of a summer weekend trip to the San Juans, or any place for that matter. :wink I make sure I start the kicker on every trip we take so that I have the confidence that it will start right up when I really need it.

Yes, we were very happy to have a kicker because I'm sure a tow would have been very expensive.
 
Ok ok, I'm convinced that I should be looking at a kicker. (But I'm still pretty comfortable in the waters I'm in without one...) That being the case, from both what I'm reading on the forums and in private, I'm thinking 5-6 hp is all I need. Any comments on that size with the CD-22? Colby
 
That HP range should get you home if you have some time. I think one of the most under-considered values of the kicker is to at least get you steerage speed to allow you point in a useful direction to prevent broaching in waves and wind or at the very least to allow you the option of where on a lee shore you go to ground. In the twin engine flying days of long ago, I was taught that the "other engine" was to extend your emergency landing options. Most recreational twin aircraft, on a single running engine were going to go down at full load and under most altitude density numbers. So it may be with a kicker of almost any horsepower, easing into a more desirable "emergency destination."
 
colbysmith":37uu7oo1 said:
Ok ok, I'm convinced that I should be looking at a kicker. (But I'm still pretty comfortable in the waters I'm in without one...) That being the case, from both what I'm reading on the forums and in private, I'm thinking 5-6 hp is all I need. Any comments on that size with the CD-22? Colby
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That horse power range is fine. You won't go much faster (if at all) with a higher HP kicker and you want something that you can still lift.
 
Had to pick up some fuel filters, and while at the boat dealer, spoke to the owner and looked at some of the kickers he had there. The idea of setting up something with remote throttle died quickly when he said I'd be looking at $750 or more just in parts for the wiring, cabling and all. Getting back to how I would use it; very little salmon trolling and mostly for emergency, guess I don't really need that stuff. If any of you have photos of how you set up your steering linkage though, I'd appreciate some links in the right direction. Or how you have your kickers mounted. I have a PM from one of our fellow C-brats that a 15" shaft is all that is needed, I just have to set the motor down or back a bit. I don't see a dinghy in the future now, but who knows...and the 15" shaft is all I would need in that case. Looks like a new 5 hp 4-stroke is going to run at least $1500. Any recommendations on used or 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke? My main is a Merc 115 HP EFI 4-stroke. At 5 hp, I don't need to plumb into my main fuel tanks, but suppose I could... what are others doing with the smaller kickers?
 
Take a hard look at the Tohatsu 5 and 6 hp. Not a lot of money and are the same as Nissan and Merc...just re-labeled. Super reliable and quiet 4 strokes.
 
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