Come on Charlie. :? He never said perfect. I for one am a big fan of rarely buying the first version of anything (although I admit to breaking that rule a lot with electronics). I never upgrade software until the 1st or 2nd round of bug fixes have been released and I don't buy a car in it's first model year. That way other people (like you) get to find all the bugs, communicate them to the sellers and wait for the fixes and I get to buy something that's closer to perfect when I pay for it.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Captains Cat":3qiwiuh0 said:
Why so uptight, I don't want to start any argument here at all with you, just saying what others have said in this post that I would rather wait until they figure a few of the bugs out before I buy this boat or any new/first edition boat. I know there is no perfect boat. I think you need to take a trip on the water and relieve some stress.
Cheers to you Charlie!
I am not so sure I would worry about being early on this one. I wrote that post about the early order and had the conversation with Dave. I also was at the helm for those action shots on his site and I had a good chance to look at the details. All of the major goods were already in place and working great including plumbing, cooking, and much of the electric gear. The details involved it fullfilling a first request often involves seemingly simple tasks that are important none the less. Where would be the best place on this boat to mount a fire extinguisher? How about the switch for cockpit lighting or exact positioning of the portapotty brackets? These are all the type of things that take time and thought to do right but I would not say they will lead to any serious bugs or big problems. Remember, he already has a boat out there running smooth and it looks great. If you are thinking about ordering but worried that some of the details will not end up in your favor, just order the basic boat the make all of those decisions and installs for yourself. Don't let Dave have all the fun!
Captains Cat
New member
You're right nicky :thup and I apologize. I'm uptight about some other stuff today and that one just hit me wrong. I'm sure what Dave meant is that he's trying to figure out the best way to install of those new accessories that someone ordered and he'd not put on the boat before. The term "bugs", just got to me...
Hope you find a great boat.
Charlie
Hope you find a great boat.
Charlie
A
Anonymous
Guest
No problem - Cheers to all.
An interesting point about bugs and design changes on a new boat, it was my impression that a lot of thought and design on the Marinaut was to fix or improve points that had been addressed with the C-Dory family and ownership. If I was ready to get rid of my '85 Classic I would jump on a new Marinut to include the improvments along the way plus the latest.
Ron
Ron
Yeah -- I don't like bugs either. In particular, spiders, which aren't really bugs.Captains Cat":10ksi6q7 said:
But it is interesting, and frustrating, that all new boats have their issues. For the amount of money they cost, you would think that the dumb little things would just have been caught, at least after the first couple of boats were built. But no, we buyers have to fix them.
That is not to say that I think the Marinaut will have troubles. Given the care that seems to have gone into it, maybe it won't suffer from the typical irritations. And it sure is a nice looking boat.
---
mike
Mike said,
"But it is interesting, and frustrating, that all new boats have their issues. For the amount of money they cost, you would think that the dumb little things would just have been caught, at least after the first couple of boats were built. But no, we buyers have to fix them."
Given Dave and Bens experience, background and abilities I doubt that there are any"dumb little things" that slipped by in the Marinaut. I took many of the photos the weekend that Dave had the boat up at the Sequim Bay CBGT, and Dave had covered many of the little things that were not done on the C-Dory. (Individual wiper control, V-birth access, even cup holder placement if desired.)
If I was looking to buy new, and the Marinaut looked like the right boat for my uses, I would not hesitate to order from OG Dave and Ben. They are stand up guys who have done a terrific job on a new and practical design.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
"But it is interesting, and frustrating, that all new boats have their issues. For the amount of money they cost, you would think that the dumb little things would just have been caught, at least after the first couple of boats were built. But no, we buyers have to fix them."
Given Dave and Bens experience, background and abilities I doubt that there are any"dumb little things" that slipped by in the Marinaut. I took many of the photos the weekend that Dave had the boat up at the Sequim Bay CBGT, and Dave had covered many of the little things that were not done on the C-Dory. (Individual wiper control, V-birth access, even cup holder placement if desired.)
If I was looking to buy new, and the Marinaut looked like the right boat for my uses, I would not hesitate to order from OG Dave and Ben. They are stand up guys who have done a terrific job on a new and practical design.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Captains Cat
New member
Yeah, the term "dumb little things" bugs me too... 
Charlie
Charlie
Well, I would love to be first but can't quite afford it yet...
But, even "old but new to us" boats have bugs, ever notice that. I think it is just that boat owners are persnickety and like things the way they like them. Heck I fix bugs and then think the fix is a bug sometimes.
And being first is cool, you get bragging rights, and you can tell everyone else how you fixed the "bugs."
And as for that Article 4b whatever (Already had that adult beverage tonight), I'm all for it.
But, even "old but new to us" boats have bugs, ever notice that. I think it is just that boat owners are persnickety and like things the way they like them. Heck I fix bugs and then think the fix is a bug sometimes.
And being first is cool, you get bragging rights, and you can tell everyone else how you fixed the "bugs."
And as for that Article 4b whatever (Already had that adult beverage tonight), I'm all for it.
Pat Anderson
New member
Being a C-Brat is state of mind, not ownership of any particular boat...Kind of like this:
El and Bill
New member
You can't win - even when you say something that you believe no one would take exception to, there's always someone ....
Like: http://cruisingamerica-halcyondays.com/pets.htm
See - scroll down through the post and you'll see that even a comment about spiders will get a rise (from a pet owner). Love this 'pub' where we can have a good time joshing with each other and we all remain friends.
Like: http://cruisingamerica-halcyondays.com/pets.htm
See - scroll down through the post and you'll see that even a comment about spiders will get a rise (from a pet owner). Love this 'pub' where we can have a good time joshing with each other and we all remain friends.
hardee":1osr0xuu said:
Oh, I see I wasn't clear. I wasn't really talking about the Marinaut. As I said, it seems a lot of care has gone into that boat. I was actually commenting on all boats purchased new (as in not used). Not about new boat models.Captains Cat":1osr0xuu said:
For example, the TomCat 255 had been in production for a few years before I bought mine, and though the more serious flaws were addressed, some of the dumb little things that the early owners complained about still existed a few years later. And I know my fellow TomCat owners agree. C'mon, tell the truth.
So what unfortunately has to happen - which I believe to be true for any boat from any manufacturer - is that we buyers have fix our new boats, as I have done for most of the issues on mine.
I still haven't tackled those damn leaky fish boxes, though. But I will, and then I will stop bringing them up (much the relief of you all, no doubt).
Anyway, it's a general frustration I have about boats. We can spend a lot less money on a very nice car that is all buttoned up and ready to go (except for the occasional lemon). Not so with boats. Yes I get the economies of scale thing. But it's still a frustration.
On the other hand, I'll bet the Triton-built TomCat is something to to behold. I can already see a difference in the pictures they posted on a TomCat build in progress.
El and Bill, I laughed at your post. I still don't like spiders, though. They give me the willies.
---
mike
Just a quick note to bring everyone up to date about the Marinaut. As some of you know I started the Marinaut with Ben Toland over three years ago. We worked together on the design and Ben did the plug work while I financed the operation.
The design was based on the C-Dory and Cape Cruiser models with some visual differences that I wanted to disparate it from those models. This is not a new unproven design; it is based on a proven design with improvements gleaned from seven years of input and modifications of boats by members of this forum. Don’t take this the wrong way because I have a C-Dory and think they are outstanding boats but much of our design was to improve the flaws in both the C-Dory and Cape Cruiser models. The molds were built so the various pieces lock together like a jigsaw puzzle, leaving little room for human error. I don’t believe there are any bugs in this design, however there can be mistakes made in the assembly of the boat. That is where the quality control comes into play.
As to the handling of the boat and how it performs, it is everything we expected. I am biased, so you have to take it for a spin and be your own judge.
Ben or I will not be building the boat but will be assembling it. Once the molds are built, any good fiberglass shop can do the fiberglass work. Tern Boat in Kent (the old C-Dory plant) will do the fiberglass work for us, Peninsula Glass in Vancouver, WA will build the windows, Carris Cabinets in Olympia will do the cabinet work, Ziegler’s Welding in Olympia will build the fuel tanks - the stainless steel railings - the radar arch and King Marine Canvas Products in Seattle will do the cushions and canvas work for us. Those five companies all do exceptional work and their quality is some of the best I have seen. Most other parts will be stock parts and come from Fisheries Supply in Seattle. We will not be a high production boat company but will build a high quality custom order boat.
By having experts in their various fields build a portion of the boat, we eliminate having employees that may not be as skilled as the experts. Our job will be to make sure the quality is maintained and to assembly the pieces.
The Marinaut is highly customizable so if you’re not sure what you want in a boat, it may be better to wait until there are a few Marinauts out there and modified/customized by their owners. The current one will be built to my idea of what a boat should or could be. I am still adding accessories to the Marinaut and am on my second radar arch because the first one just didn’t look right. I am slow in adding the accessories because a lot of thought and research goes into it before anything is added.
I will not have a boat at the Seattle Boat Show, but will make arrangements to have it at the C-Brat gathering at the Larkspur Landing. The boat I bring will have options that many owners will not want and will be missing some options that others will want, but it will give you a good idea of the quality of workmanship that goes into each boat.
Dave
www.tolandmarine.com
The design was based on the C-Dory and Cape Cruiser models with some visual differences that I wanted to disparate it from those models. This is not a new unproven design; it is based on a proven design with improvements gleaned from seven years of input and modifications of boats by members of this forum. Don’t take this the wrong way because I have a C-Dory and think they are outstanding boats but much of our design was to improve the flaws in both the C-Dory and Cape Cruiser models. The molds were built so the various pieces lock together like a jigsaw puzzle, leaving little room for human error. I don’t believe there are any bugs in this design, however there can be mistakes made in the assembly of the boat. That is where the quality control comes into play.
As to the handling of the boat and how it performs, it is everything we expected. I am biased, so you have to take it for a spin and be your own judge.
Ben or I will not be building the boat but will be assembling it. Once the molds are built, any good fiberglass shop can do the fiberglass work. Tern Boat in Kent (the old C-Dory plant) will do the fiberglass work for us, Peninsula Glass in Vancouver, WA will build the windows, Carris Cabinets in Olympia will do the cabinet work, Ziegler’s Welding in Olympia will build the fuel tanks - the stainless steel railings - the radar arch and King Marine Canvas Products in Seattle will do the cushions and canvas work for us. Those five companies all do exceptional work and their quality is some of the best I have seen. Most other parts will be stock parts and come from Fisheries Supply in Seattle. We will not be a high production boat company but will build a high quality custom order boat.
By having experts in their various fields build a portion of the boat, we eliminate having employees that may not be as skilled as the experts. Our job will be to make sure the quality is maintained and to assembly the pieces.
The Marinaut is highly customizable so if you’re not sure what you want in a boat, it may be better to wait until there are a few Marinauts out there and modified/customized by their owners. The current one will be built to my idea of what a boat should or could be. I am still adding accessories to the Marinaut and am on my second radar arch because the first one just didn’t look right. I am slow in adding the accessories because a lot of thought and research goes into it before anything is added.
I will not have a boat at the Seattle Boat Show, but will make arrangements to have it at the C-Brat gathering at the Larkspur Landing. The boat I bring will have options that many owners will not want and will be missing some options that others will want, but it will give you a good idea of the quality of workmanship that goes into each boat.
Dave
www.tolandmarine.com
Captains Cat
New member
Dave, thanks! Sally and I will be at SBS11 once again and I look forward to seeing the finished product!
Charlie
Charlie