Locking problem at the St. Lucy Lock Florida

Avidmagnum12

Avidmagnum12

Member
On our trip through the Lake Okeechobee waterway, we ran into a problem while locking through the St. Lucy Lock that took me by surprise. We have in the past taken hold of two lines(when possible), one at the helm position and one at the stern. At this lock, the operator refused to hand one to me at the helm position and insisted that I exit the cabin and make my way to the bow and he would toss me a line. I tried to reason with him, but he insisted that I get on the bow (foredeck) or exit the lock. I tried reasoning with the lock keeper for over five minutes, he could not see that staying at the helm was safer.

Here are my emails to his supervisor with his responses.

C-Otter:Mr. Marshall
Thank you for taking the time to address the concerns that we have had at the St. Lucy lock. We have had the same problem at that lock on two separate occasions. The first being Tuesday January 14,2020, and again on our return passage on Sunday January 19, 2020. Both times the same lock operator was on duty. In each case, I requested that he lower a line so that I could control my vessel from my position of safety in the cabin by reaching a line through the window as I have done safely before multiple times in locks, including the other locks on the Okeechobee system. (Great service at all the other locks! The operators there are to be commended.) My wife also handles a line at the back of the boat.

Both times I was refused a line at my helm position and was told that I must leave my positive of safety and make my way forward to the bow of the boat. I informed the operator that I had safety concerns with that and was told to follow his orders or vacate the lock. Our boat trailer was on the other side of the lock and so I reluctantly complied and exited the cabin and worked my way forward to the unsteady foredeck. I tried to explain the situation with him. He said that he was doing his job and said a bow and stern line are required. I replied that two lines are important for safety, but my foredeck was not a safe place for me. He went and brought out a copy of Notice of Navigation 2019-001 and said that the bow stern rule was in there and so I had to be on the “pointy” end of the boat. If that’s stated in the Notice, neither my wife or I could find it. In fact, on the USACE Locking page it states that, and I quote, “ Safety is the prime consideration when locking any type of vessel through a lock. Operators must require all passengers to wear a coast guard approved life jacket, and make sure no one in your boat is standing on the foredeck or on the roof when you’re passing through a lock.”

Many of my boating friends are in the aging population with minor physical issues, some with true handicaps, but tend to have excellent boat handling skills. They have given up their go fast boats, large cruisers and more difficult to handle sailboats. The boats they tend to own now are smaller and easier to handle like C-Dory’s, small Ranger Tugs and Rosboroughs.

Solutions

No one should ever be forced to go out on the foredeck of a vessel.

Requests to have have a couple lines lowered as one comes into the lock, rather than tossed, should also be honored. The ropes should be at a reasonable spacing for the craft. (All other locks that we’ve been on already have lines down to speed locking times, but they do get wet.)

Elderly, injured and handicapped people should be treated with respect and not marginalized. Reasonable requests should be honored as long as they can complete the task safely, securely and with reasonable efficiently. Bullying is never to be tolerated.

I don’t know what your Federal mandates dictate, but in the Florida State Park service we are required to take training to acquaint ourselves with the Americans with Disabilities Act yearly. I feel that it’s important to renew our commitment to service.

I’m sure that by working together this incident can be easily remedied and put behind us. My concern is not for myself, but the others that follow after. If you have any questions or comments within the next couple of days feel free to contact me. After you discuss this situation with the lock tender, I’d like an update.

Response:
1: Lines are generally hard to just lower directly to an individual at lower pool. The issue is that when the line are lowered down individually, is that people start reaching too far and have falling into the lock chamber. We will make sure that our operators are communicating clearly that the lock line are being lowered to the vessels deck.

2: The operator is following the rules for a bow and stern line per the operators training and locking brochure (see attached), as with any rule there will always be situation for things to be handled differently. The bow and stern lines are the safest way to lock through.

3: The lock lines provided at St Lucie Lock are keep on the top of the lock wall due the differential in pool levels. This keeps them from getting fouled in boat motors while entering and exiting the chamber (lessons learned).

4: The operators are to be courteous and respectful to all of our customers.

C-Otter:
Mr Marshall
I have no problem with the safety rule of having a bow and stern line, however, the problem I had was being put in a dangerous position standing on the foredeck which is forbidden by the Corp of Engineers website. I can handle a bow line through the window safely.

I guess I’m looking for clarification....When I next go through the St. Lucy lock will I be able to take a bow line and control it through my cabin window?

Yes or No?

Respectfully Tom Schulke

Response: Mr. Schulke,

The lock requires two lines for safety in the chamber. Maybe you have a cleat somewhere between the bow and mid ship that could be used. This would keep you from having to get all the way out on the bow of your vessel.

Thanks

C-Otter:I then sent two photos to Mr Marshall with a side view of our boat and the cleat location by the helm. In retrospect, I should have sent them with my first contact.

Response: Mr.Schulke.

The pictures make it clear and yes that cleat is a exceptional location.

In conclusion:
So hopefully the problem is solved ( thanks to Mr. Marshall’s professionalism) and boats like ours will be locked through without having to go on the foredeck. The supervisor was able to see that our boats are “exceptional “ but we already knew that. I’d like to know if any other C-Brat has a problem in the future. Another C-Dory locked through on a different day and had no problems but a different operator was on duty. Have fun and be safe.
 
I don't think I would have been as accomodating or as polite. Simply for the fact it is necessary to remain at the controls to position the boat and hold that position until a line can be caught. IE, law enforcement probably would have been involved to remove me from "his" lock, and then an ensuing discussion between all parties involved. I have soloed through many locks, and that includes where the lockmaster has had to lower a line. It is nice that you at least got a response back from them, not just once, but in a continuing conversation. I am curious how they expect you to make your way to the bow thereby leaving the boat in an unsecured position with no control from the helm? I've also never heard of a lock even suggesting one tie a lock line to their cleat. This in itself would be unsafe. This just seems to be a case of some guy being a prick because he doesn't have a good understanding of boats or seamanship. Their argument of falling out of the boat thru the window at the helm is assinine compared to feeling it safer for you to walk the thin gunwale and then stand on the bow to catch a line. Hopefully your conversation with the controlling management for this lock resolved the unsafe practice of this one locktender.
 
Hey Colby
The lock tender was going “by the book” Bow and stern line. But does that mean stand on the bow? Not on a C-Dory because the rules also say no one on the foredeck. I’m going to have to give him the benefit of the doubt. The good thing is that the supervisor stated that we could lock through at the helm window and hopefully no one else has to go through the frustration I went through. Safety first and as Dr. Bob said at our gathering a few years back “ the best first aid is to not get injured “. 😇

Oh...Colby. Keep your mice in Wisconsin or we will have to put a python on the Midnight Flyer. 🐍

Tom
 
Tom, It might just be me, but I would keep that bit of e-mail coorospondance printed for future display, especially if that is going to be a common passage for you.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
I'm sorry to see things haven't changed at the St Lucy Lock. Here's a quote from my Great Loop:

"Today was my first experience with the infamous Okeechobee Waterway locks, and it was just as bad as the descriptions I'd read. The locks were occupied with several eastbound boats when I got there. I could see they were lined up on both sides of the lock, so I figured I'd be able to moor on either side when it came my turn, and decided on my starboard. That's where all my fenders were mounted when I got in the lock and the dockmaster insisted I moor portside. It was very windy and Na Waqa was being blown about as I ran around, trying to move my fenders, and fend off the lock walls at the same time.

I finally got myself situated, and the lockmaster began shouting at me because I hadn't made fast the two lines he'd tossed me, as he'd instructed. I didn't see the sense in that, since the lines are fixed on top of the lock, and I'd have more and more slack as the boat rose (there are no floating bollards), and told him so. Wrong thing to do. We started out on the wrong foot, and it just got worse. I first tried standing on the starboard rail, so I'd have some leverage on the lines, but then I couldn't fend Na Waqa from the wall on the other side of the boat. So then I tried standing on the foredeck, near the wall where I could fend off. But that let my stern swing away from the wall, which the lockmaster didn't like at all, and he shouted his displeasure at me most unpleasantly.

Finally, I ran the forward line under the bowsprit guardrail, then aft to the cockpit, where I stationed myself. This geometry worked well. I had good leverage on both lines, fore and aft, and could fairly easily keep Na Waqa close to, and parallel to, the wall. This was a good thing, because about that time the park ranger, who was locking through in his boat just behind me, shouted, "Here comes the waterfall!" I looked upstream, and yup, just like all the guide books said, the lock doors were being opened, and a 10-foot high waterfall was forming between the doors. "Holy S__t!"

Fortunately, I made it without banging either Na Waqa, or the park ranger's boat. But for the very first time since starting this trip, I did not say "Thank you" to the lockmaster on the radio as I left the lock."
 
Ouch....you had it worst than I did as I was not single handing.The reason that he had you port side was on that particular lock westbound was he would have had to go to the other side of the lock to throw you lines. Extra work for him. Every other lock on the system had lines hanging down in the water so it was easy to pick a side if the lock was not full. The lock tender was proud in that his lines were kept dry. Big deal. Wet weighted lines would fix this but I don’t think this will happen in the near future.

I would absolutely hate to single hand through the St. Lucy lock.

Thanks Tom
 
Nope; I was on the left side of lock as you're coming in. I have twin 40's so it's easy for me to swing 180 in a diameter of 22 feet (my boat length; forward starboard engine, reverse port engine, adjust each throttle to maintain position), and I can time it so at the end of the turn I'm right up against that left wall, but with my starboard side facing it. It's sometimes easier than changing all the lines.
 
Unfortunately the lock tender is up to his old ways and forcing skippers to again exit the cabin and go to the bow. An unsafe move. Two fellow C-Brats were forced to do so. When told that his supervisor said we could stay in the cabin he said that he had a new supervisor. They were again told that they would be denied lockage.

I kept all the old correspondence and forwarded it to the C-Brat that was involved and he is VERY on it. Starting with contacting the new supervisor!

What I need now is for anyone locking through the St. Lucie lock in a C-Doty to record all conversations with the lock tender from the initial contact on to the end. If you video it even better. Note date and time and ask name of lock tender if you are put in an unsafe situation. We hope to have this resolved soon but confirmation of results is important.

Safe Boating…..Tom
 
The Corp of Engineers updated their locking procedures on the Okeechobee waterway for C-Dory style boats. Operators will no longer have to go out on the bow for a line. They may now use the forward cleat outside the window. Still need two lines. Thanks to Ken Elliot for all the photos and information that he sent to the lock supervisor. A lot of time and work went into this. This is a victory for boating safety.

I’m not having any luck posting photos off my I-Pad to C-Brats or I would post the 3 pages here.

Tom
 
Great Job Tom. (and Ken). Personally, I still would have wanted the satisfaction of letting that clown call LE to have me removed from "his" lock. lol. Thanks for sending me that info. I scanned it into a jpg to upload here. Sorry about the reduction in picture quality. Best I could do.

The pdf file was three pages. I scanned them into separate jpg files to upload. Those of you that are interested in this information, might be best to open this up on a large screen. Good luck with a smart phone... :mrgreen:


Page1.jpg
Page2.jpg
Page3.jpg
 
Never been to the Okeechobee locks, but do they have lock lines hanging down the lock walls or does the locking vessel have to supply lines? As for the requirement for two line, if there are preset lines on the wall, are the lines close enough together for a C-Dory sized boat to actually reach two of them if one line is secured to the window cleat? For example, on the Erie Canal, the preset lines on the lock walls are too far apart for a CD22 to reach two of them.

Finally, you are not supposed to cleat off a line when locking.
 
Oh what the hell... You show up at a lock , a lock that has helpers that have helped thousands of boaters of all types and all sizes for years, and waste every ones time reinventing the wheel and then act surprised on how you where treaded? I would have told you to go away after one minute. Despite what you think the lock keeper has no choice. He much follow the rule because if he does not his job is on the line. The same type of people that will argue with him are the same type that will spin a 180 and blame / sue if some thing goes wrong. Their lawyers will use the fact that he allowed you to not follow the rules as the bases for the lawsuit of damages that resulted from you not following the rules.

If you are not able or confrontable to be on the bow maybe its time to sell your boat. but the completely obvious solution is to open the front hatch and stand on the berth while handling the lines. This is where Susan handles the front lines or anchoring duties from. She is unable to stand safely on the bow most of the time.

Oh and I any not here to have a back and forth what if discussion. You dance with the devil he leads. You use the lock you follow the rules.
 
starcrafttom":1c1h22te said:
I would have told you to go away after one minute..
Click to expand...

And I would have told you to pack sand!

Just curious Thomas, how many locks have you locked through. Please don't confuse bow and stern with bow and stern lines as this lock tending moron did. The rules have always been specific about staying off the foredeck or roof to catch lock lines! And if you know of a safe way to steer your boat onto a lock wall without being at the helm, I'd love to hear it. (Fortunately for me, I have a cockpit helm. Soloing on a 25 from the cabin helm isn't quite as easy as on a 22, and trying to run aft or forward to grab lines!) l This lock tender was a jerk, pure and simple! In honesty though, I've never had any issues with lock tenders, and I've gone through a lot of locks! In fact, most of them have been downright friendly! This one at Okeechobee is apparently an outlier, and a jerk at that! Colby
 
One of the main reasons I had to give up owning Cdorys is that I no longer felt "safe". I have weathered winds of 90 knots at sea and anchor. I have weathered breakers & seas of 40 to 45 feet in height at sea...

But falling off a C Dory 25 at a dock trying to go forward to adjust a line I fell of the boat, and only survived because quick action by Marie.

As we age, simple tasks around a boat may become dangers. I believe there is a "smart" time to stop boating at least in certainly types of boats. I had that happen to sailboats fully fit out for World Cruising. I had that happen to 42 foot trawlers, and more recently C Dorys.

I have through hundreds of locks including 3 Panama Canal transits in my own boats, some in Europe: Kiel Canal, Corinth Canal among others. and --some east coast, Gulf Cost, Heartland USA.

There is no one standard procedure. There also can be mlvric lock masters. I know of several who were fired in Florida eventually after long and arduous safety conscious boater's campaign. Tom of C Otter needs to be recognized for the work (many hours) to have a safety procedure approved and become SOP in a lock.

Thanks Tom and Joyce (I suspect she played some roles here)!
 
Thomas
The lock tender was breaking Corp of Engineers rules. Plan and Simple. Two Corp of Engineers supervisors confirmed that. The rules specifically state that no one is allowed to be on the bow or roof of a boat when locking. The issue is safety. You were not there at the time of either incident.

As a gold looper I have locked through the entire loop and only had a problem with this one individual who was NOT following rules.

We only have one rule on this forum and that is to be nice.

I’m not going to argue……I’m sure you’re just having a bad day.
 
Thanks for the kind words Dr. Bob but Ken Elliot really did the most work on this. I made some contacts with the supervisor when things got slow but Ken really pushed this along. C-Dory operators need not to be at risk of falling off the bow in a lock. I always remember some of the best information I was ever given came from you and I quote “The best first aid is to not get hurt “.

As you pointed out there will come a time that to boat as we do now will not be possible. Yet, we want to boat as long as possible. I think of Cliff Harbin and his handicaps and how he enjoys his boating on his C-Dory. What we don’t want is a bully to turn someone like him away because he can’t crawl up on the bow.

For Ken and I it was never about us….its for those that have an injury or handicap that would be affected by someone that was breaking the Corp of Engineers rules.

Colby ….thanks for posting the new guide lines for all to see. Always appreciate you.

Tom on the C-Otter
 
SoBelle
Sorry that I did not post an answer earlier. The lock has supplied lines about every 25 ft so no problem using one line through the window and one at the stern. Every lock on the Okeechobee waterway is configured in this manner. It’s only at the St. Lucie lock where one lock tender made someone get out on the bow. Every other lock just let us choose where to handle lines.

And yes, you are correct that one should not tie off in a lock. On some locks there is a long fast drop with lots of turbulence such as a couple on the Oswego Canal that will rip the lines out of one’s hands. In this case we use the cleat for leverage but do not tie off. We also keep a sharp knife at each position…..just in case.

I asked the unnamed lock tender at St. Lucie what he would do if someone single hands through. He stated that the operator would have to go back and forth from bow to stern and secure the boat as the lock was operated. Tough enough going back and forth from the cockpit to the cabin but having to travel to the bow….difficult to say the least.

Ive communicated with other lock tenders at the St. Lucie lock and they are very accommodating. Unfortunately Ken and I had to deal with someone that was not. Now other C-Dory owners that go through the lock should not have any issues.

Thanks….Tom
 
Before we left the Elliot’s place Jan 16 2025, Ken armed me with printouts of the correspondence and policy changes regarding this issue at the OWW. The lockmaster was sullen, slow, and took an hour to turn around the lock. We had no comment from the lockmaster when I positioned the cockpit by a line for Eileen. After she had it, I maneuvered up to the next rope and grabbed it through the helm window and shut down the engines. Now the lines in all OCWW locks appear to be less than 10 feet apart.

At the Mayaca (East end of Lake O, the next lock to the west) after we were secured the same way Eileen had this conversation with the lockmaster (voice not VHF):

Lockmaster:
I’m glad your husband is smart enough to grab the rope through his window rather than going up on the bow!

Eileen:
He’s smart about some things.

LM:
We don’t want crew on small boats like C-Dorys to go up on the bow.

E:
This is a C-Dory.

LM:
We had one guy on one go overboard between the boat and the wall. It didn’t go well.

E:
I hate when that happens.

LM:
So do I. You wouldn't believe the paperwork! (laughing). {I suspect we would have heard about it had that actually happened to a C-Dory}.

So it seems that Ken’s dogged determination to see this through has resulted in a positive change despite the federal bureaucracy (we were federal employees for 40 years combined, but don't hold it against us).

Safe Travels!

John
 
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