leaf stains! Help me!
- Thread starter dutch123
- Start date
Barkeepers Friend.
No need to buy it online, unless you want to - it's available all over the place. Got my last can at Safeway.
No need to buy it online, unless you want to - it's available all over the place. Got my last can at Safeway.
Da Nag":3e1vfxby said:
Good choice, Bill!
Barkeeper's Friend is loaded with oxalic acid and a mild abrasive. It's a great bleaching compound for rust and organic stains alike. Cleans up wood, fiberglass, brass, and stainless steel, etc.
The abrasive is about half way between BonAmi and Ajax, and can scratch some surfaces.
I'd recommend you utilize the bleaching properties of the Barkeeper's Friend first, by gently spreading the compound out over the fiberglass and letting it set wet for a awhile before rubbing it in.
If the bleaching properties alone won't clean up the stains, then by all means, put some elbow grease into the equation.
The difference is that the abrasive will remove some of the surface of the gel coat, and, while that's OK occasionally, it eventually will wear down through a significant amount of the gel coat if used repeatedly or regularly over time.
Re-waxing after using it is a must, as it will remove any wax and dull the sur face somewhat.
It's also great on glass stains, like windows, that accumulate hard to remove calcium and other stains that won't come off with Windex, vinegar (acetic acid), and the like, etc.
I highly recommend your review this information on oxalic acid's uses:
(The first one is within the link Bill posted.)
Cleaning Tips for Bar Keepers Friend
Oxalic Acid
Joe. :teeth :thup
Pat Anderson
New member
Patty here. You might try one of those "magic eraser" products before you use something abrasive. They get rid of an amazing number of stains and may work on your leaf stain.
I've read where bleach, if used repeatedly on fiberglass, will yellow the gel coat:
Stains on Fiberglass
Lots of things will work, from toilet bowl cleaner, Soft Scrub, Fiberglass Stain Remover, etc.
It might take some time and experimentation to find your own answer.
Joe. :teeth :thup
Stains on Fiberglass
Lots of things will work, from toilet bowl cleaner, Soft Scrub, Fiberglass Stain Remover, etc.
It might take some time and experimentation to find your own answer.
Joe. :teeth :thup
Jeff Brigner
New member
Most agree that what ever you do to wax afterwards. 3M makes a great marine cleaner wax. I really like it and it will remove the stains without much risk of damage to any surface. This is one step instead of two or three and your covered with protective wax when your done.
hank schneider
New member
The stainless fittings show some occasional staining (I did not say rust) but it looks like tht would be in the future. The oxi stuff would probably remove - aany ideas about what would prevent it.
Thanks
Hank
Thanks
Hank
Hank-
Using any metal polish intended for stainless steel would provide 1.) a mild abrasive, 2.) a chemical cleaner, and 3.) a preserving wax that should inhibit the rust/staining.
Just using Barkeeper's Friend and a good wax afterward would be just as good in most instances, I think, unless you're obsessive about it or entering a piece of work in the state fair competition. You can find various metal polishes in the WM catalogue on page 350 of the 2008 edition for your perusal.
Stainless steel is made up of various compounds of iron, carbon, nickel, and chromium. The iron is for strength, the carbon for hardness. The last two are to tie up the iron and carbon atoms and to plate the alloy with chromium atoms to prevent rust and stains. The chromium atoms form a layer of chromium oxide on the surface a few atoms thick that protect everything underneath.
Commercial manufacturers "passivate" their stainless products with chemical processes that eat away any iron atoms on the surface that would cause rust or staining, leaving the chromium layer behind.
A second process used is Electropolishing, in which the stainless object is plated with an protective coating of chromium in a wet bath of chemicals and is driven by electrical current.
I have seen in catalogues a metal polishing compound that claims to passivate stainless steel with hand polishing, but can't seem to find it with Google this morning.
For more detailed information, see the following:
Passivation
Electropolishing
Joe. :teeth :thup
Using any metal polish intended for stainless steel would provide 1.) a mild abrasive, 2.) a chemical cleaner, and 3.) a preserving wax that should inhibit the rust/staining.
Just using Barkeeper's Friend and a good wax afterward would be just as good in most instances, I think, unless you're obsessive about it or entering a piece of work in the state fair competition. You can find various metal polishes in the WM catalogue on page 350 of the 2008 edition for your perusal.
Stainless steel is made up of various compounds of iron, carbon, nickel, and chromium. The iron is for strength, the carbon for hardness. The last two are to tie up the iron and carbon atoms and to plate the alloy with chromium atoms to prevent rust and stains. The chromium atoms form a layer of chromium oxide on the surface a few atoms thick that protect everything underneath.
Commercial manufacturers "passivate" their stainless products with chemical processes that eat away any iron atoms on the surface that would cause rust or staining, leaving the chromium layer behind.
A second process used is Electropolishing, in which the stainless object is plated with an protective coating of chromium in a wet bath of chemicals and is driven by electrical current.
I have seen in catalogues a metal polishing compound that claims to passivate stainless steel with hand polishing, but can't seem to find it with Google this morning.
For more detailed information, see the following:
Passivation
Electropolishing
Joe. :teeth :thup
hank schneider
New member
Joe
Thanks for the quick & helpful response - I'm working on the boat today
Hank
Thanks for the quick & helpful response - I'm working on the boat today
Hank
Levity has just received a major cleaning. A glass cook top cleaner was used to remove stains and other scratch marks in the gelcoat. The brand name of the cook top cleaner was "Weiman". These cook top cleaners can be found in a grocery store. It contains a slight abraisive and detergents that remove stains and marks from the gelcoat without scrubbing. Since it is slightly abrasive it is used for small spot cleaning. Star Brite Hull Cleaner was used to remove the large areas of yellow staining on the hull. After the cleanup was complete a coat of Collinite Fleet Wax was applied. The hull is back to bright blue and bright white with a deep, glass like finish.
Mike "Levity"
Mike "Levity"
marvin4239
New member
I tried everything from Zep to Barkeepers friend on some rust stains on my transom from the eyebolts. Recently I had my boat in the salt water for about two weeks and the bottom got pretty funky with small barnacles and gunk so I bought some On Off Bottom cleaner from West. I haven't tried it on the bottom yet but I put a little on the rust stains and they came off immediately. This stuff is pretty strong and toxic but it will sure eat rust where other products have failed to touch it. I would avoid getting it on metal but the instructions say its safe for fiberglass.
Bleach (Sodium HypoChlorite) is a BASIC substance derived from NaOH (Sodium Hydroxide [a STRONG BASE]) and Cl (Chlorine [a gas]). All BASIC substances will degrade ORGANIC compounds/substances e.g. those substances which contain Carbon. So, our C-Dory's are large floating Carbon compounds 
However, NaOH is a non-volatile substance and will not evaprate on its own. :embarrased Therefore, copious amounts of H20 should be used after washing with Bleach. Any substance used to neutralize (e.g. deter the effects of degrading an ORGANIC substance) a BASIC substance will be an ACID - since an ACID is used to neturalize a BASE, and a BASE is used to neutralize an ACID. :hug2
If you want to neturalize the effects of the Bleach after washing your boat (fiberglass and gel coat are ORGANIC substances, but so is the Stainless Steel) - use normal household vinegar. Take a spray container (like you use on weeds for the lawn, etc) and fill it with a gallon of normal vinegar. Spray your boat with the vinegar after using common household Bleach. This will neutralize the Bleach by increasing the volatility of the NaOH and rendering the NaOH to evaporative loss. Since, it's the NaOH which will want to "hang around" in the layer of gel coat/fiber glass because it does not evaporate easily. This will reduce any effects of yellowing - although, if you employ copious amounts of COLD H20, you should be fine. BTW, Bleach is more soluble in cold H20 than hot H20 e.g. you can get more Bleach (a BASIC substance) into cold H20 than you can an ACID substance. After spraying w/ the vinegar, do a freshwater rinse.
You get far more for your money and a much better cleaning substance in Bleach - if used properly (copious amounts of H20 and a vinegar after-wash-rinse).
Dicarboxylic acid (Oxalic Acid) (a peculiarly STRONG ACID) is employed in substances as a ligand and a neutralizer - donating electrons to a common molecule and increasing affinity to form a larger more complex compound. Essentially, in the case of Bartender's Friend and in substances like Bon Ami (diatomaceous Earth) - both are BASIC substances - Oxalic Acid neutralizes the BASIC properties of these type substances while increasing their ligand affinity.
So whatever you use, if it's an organic substance you wish to remove, then you should employ a BASIC substance - the stronger (more concentrated) the BASIC substance, the more ACID will be required to neutralize the BASIC substance. If you want to remove a non-ORGANIC substance, use an ACID - then follow up with a BASIC substance to neutralize your work (e.g. the effects of the ACID).
I would use Bartender's Friend and/or Bon Ami if not using Bleach. They are both very, very mildly abrasive compounds. Diatomaceous Earth is a BASIC compound - derived from diatoms which make their casings from Calcium Carbonates & Calcium Bicarbonates - BASIC substances - and are easily neutralized by the normal acity of H20. In fact, the best cleaner for glass on a boat is to use either Bartender's Friend or Bon Ami - removes the salt without leaving scratches.
My 0.02 worth for the day :lol:
However, NaOH is a non-volatile substance and will not evaprate on its own. :embarrased Therefore, copious amounts of H20 should be used after washing with Bleach. Any substance used to neutralize (e.g. deter the effects of degrading an ORGANIC substance) a BASIC substance will be an ACID - since an ACID is used to neturalize a BASE, and a BASE is used to neutralize an ACID. :hug2
If you want to neturalize the effects of the Bleach after washing your boat (fiberglass and gel coat are ORGANIC substances, but so is the Stainless Steel) - use normal household vinegar. Take a spray container (like you use on weeds for the lawn, etc) and fill it with a gallon of normal vinegar. Spray your boat with the vinegar after using common household Bleach. This will neutralize the Bleach by increasing the volatility of the NaOH and rendering the NaOH to evaporative loss. Since, it's the NaOH which will want to "hang around" in the layer of gel coat/fiber glass because it does not evaporate easily. This will reduce any effects of yellowing - although, if you employ copious amounts of COLD H20, you should be fine. BTW, Bleach is more soluble in cold H20 than hot H20 e.g. you can get more Bleach (a BASIC substance) into cold H20 than you can an ACID substance. After spraying w/ the vinegar, do a freshwater rinse.
You get far more for your money and a much better cleaning substance in Bleach - if used properly (copious amounts of H20 and a vinegar after-wash-rinse).
Dicarboxylic acid (Oxalic Acid) (a peculiarly STRONG ACID) is employed in substances as a ligand and a neutralizer - donating electrons to a common molecule and increasing affinity to form a larger more complex compound. Essentially, in the case of Bartender's Friend and in substances like Bon Ami (diatomaceous Earth) - both are BASIC substances - Oxalic Acid neutralizes the BASIC properties of these type substances while increasing their ligand affinity.
So whatever you use, if it's an organic substance you wish to remove, then you should employ a BASIC substance - the stronger (more concentrated) the BASIC substance, the more ACID will be required to neutralize the BASIC substance. If you want to remove a non-ORGANIC substance, use an ACID - then follow up with a BASIC substance to neutralize your work (e.g. the effects of the ACID).
I would use Bartender's Friend and/or Bon Ami if not using Bleach. They are both very, very mildly abrasive compounds. Diatomaceous Earth is a BASIC compound - derived from diatoms which make their casings from Calcium Carbonates & Calcium Bicarbonates - BASIC substances - and are easily neutralized by the normal acity of H20. In fact, the best cleaner for glass on a boat is to use either Bartender's Friend or Bon Ami - removes the salt without leaving scratches.
My 0.02 worth for the day :lol:
BTW, most folks who work w/ ACIDS and BASES should recognize this golden rule of chemistry, and if you don't, it will help to ensure your safety when working with strong ACIDS and strong BASES:
"Do as you oughta, as ACID to water"
(never add water to a strong ACID = explosive properties result)
"Do as you oughta, as ACID to water"
(never add water to a strong ACID = explosive properties result)
I too used to use SnoBowl, until they applied the blue dye to the ingredients - essentially leaving a blue tint in areas where BASIC (e.g. think lime) carbonates still reside - perputating the idea you need to use more SnoBowl to remove the blue dye (which is true - you can contue to apply until you're [pun intended?]) - blue in the face! :disgust
Essentially, I used SnoBowl for bottom scum since barnacles, and single-cell diatoms, crustaceans, and nearly all sea-dwelling critters (e.g. water scum) is essentially BASIC and SnoBowl is an ACID.
Another reason I like Bleach over Bartender's Friend and/or Bon Ami (for removing organic stains) is the fact it kills all bacteria, rust and molds - Bartender's Friend and/or Bon Ami do little harm to critters other than insects (because the Oxalic Acid is deadly to insect critters).
Essentially, I used SnoBowl for bottom scum since barnacles, and single-cell diatoms, crustaceans, and nearly all sea-dwelling critters (e.g. water scum) is essentially BASIC and SnoBowl is an ACID.
Another reason I like Bleach over Bartender's Friend and/or Bon Ami (for removing organic stains) is the fact it kills all bacteria, rust and molds - Bartender's Friend and/or Bon Ami do little harm to critters other than insects (because the Oxalic Acid is deadly to insect critters).
eNORMous":3q8k4j9w said:
After our chemistry chat at the NC Gathering, I have been applying your advice (especially as leaves drop here in NC!). Thanks for the guidance. I especially applied it to salt left from the gathering on trailer. One of a list of things I learned from C-Brats while there!
In particular I had tons of pecans dropping before I purchased my tarp. Talk about something difficult to remove - tannin-soaked pecan husks (ectoderm) - argh! Add to it the flying bombadier (Mockingbird) who sprayed the top of the boat a wonderful purple hue - OMG :smiled
Sodium Hypochorite - my friend in need. :teeth
Sodium Hypochorite - my friend in need. :teeth