Lawless in Seattle

D

Dene

New member
A month ago, I took some friends over to Bell Harbor Marina near Seattle's Pike Market and downtown. At 10 pm, the three of us went for a walk. What an adventure. Vagrants everywhere and not one cop in sight. Right in front of Macy's a man was urinating on a sidewalk tree while talking loudly in Spanish to another. We turned around and then encountered another man, dressed in a purple skirt, peeing on the side of the building. Everywhere we looked were scuzzballs and again, not one cop in sight.

I don't want to appear condescending but we often spend evenings at the Riverplace marina at Portland's waterfront. There are a few homeless around but behaved....and there are cops everywhere. We feel perfectly safe at any time of the day or night.

So....what's going on in Seattle??

-Greg
 
hopefully, washington has a conceal carry license and hopefully you have taken advantage of it, as i have in ohio!
you and i (all c-brats) understand education, responsibility and respect, but their still remains that lower element that only believes in, me, me, me, and the hell with you!
we should be very glad they can't afford a boat!
best regards
pat
 
From my experience - 2 years living downtown, 5 years working downtown, Seattle has "areas" that are more colorful than others. The two streets next to the Pike Place Market, 1st to 3rd, between University and Pine, tend to have a large number of homeless people wandering around, day and night. If you went further North, towards Wall steet, its a lot more active as far as dining, bars, nightlife. You were just in an area that is somewhat unsettling to some people.
The first time my wife and I went to Portland, we thought, hey, this is just like Seattle but without the flavor. We have never had any trouble downtown at night in Seattle, and the only time I have been hassled was by a drunk in a bar in Portland (the bouncer threw him out after he tried to knock me off the bar stool). So, I'm sure everyone has different experiences (and I do like Portland).
Point being - I think Seattle is one of the safest cities I have every been in, (of course I grew up in Detroit.).


Tom
 
I have lived in both portland and seattle. For safety I would take portland. Seattle is more lawless I believe just from pure size. There are few areas in portland where you don't want to go at night alone, but quite a few more of them in seattle. I have been very apprehensive in the Rainier Valley area and also in that area over the hill, south of Alki. And that was in daylight. And the government and some of the citizens are very sensitive when you hint they might have a crime problem. But for fun and activities seattle wins easily. I still love it there. If I was going to be living on a boat or on the water seattle would be the first choice. Portland wouldn't even make the list.
 
lloyds":u4afg3x3 said:
I have lived in both portland and seattle. For safety I would take portland. Seattle is more lawless I believe just from pure size. There are few areas in portland where you don't want to go at night alone, but quite a few more of them in seattle. I have been very apprehensive in the Rainier Valley area and also in that area over the hill, south of Alki. And that was in daylight. And the government and some of the citizens are very sensitive when you hint they might have a crime problem. But for fun and activities seattle wins easily. I still love it there. If I was going to be living on a boat or on the water seattle would be the first choice. Portland wouldn't even make the list.
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Gotta love that quote from the former Seattle mayor.

Riverplace has all the amenities Seattle does without the fear factor. However, Seattle/Puget Sound is a wonderful place to boat. I'm lucky to be able to play in both places but boating in the Sound is far superior to anything in the PNW. It's just sad that Seattle doesn't clean up the waterfront. It could be a great place for families, boaters, and the like. Why yield such prime real estate to creeps?

Another spot on the Sound has a similar problem. Port Orchard. It's waterfront is full of bars. I took a walk the next morning and there was beer/wine bottles everywhere. Again....with some planning and enforcement, this could be a great spot like LaConner, Poulsbo, and Winslow.

-Greg
 
Agreed on all points. But, a few years ago I was parked in my sailboat at Riverplace, after most of the activities had ended, rose festival week. Some clown jumped over the hatchboards and down to the salon floor and woke me up. When I tried to grab him I was rewarded with a shoe in the throat. There is some risk in any popular waterfront hangout at night. But in the summer you almost have to leave windows and hatches open. However I am now armed.
 
I've lived in Seattle most of my life and worked downtown my whole career. There are definitely some areas that are a bit dicier at night, you just have to know what areas to avoid. Seattle does have quite a bit of street people and panhandlers at night but I've noticed that they're not too agressive, they usually will ask for money but not give you any problems if you choose not to.

The fact of the matter is, Seattle has become a big city and with big cities, these types of issues are a fact of life. I wouldn't say Portland is better or Seattle is worse, just that Seattle is bigger. We did a weekend in Portland last year and Portland is a nice small city, but I still love Seattle. It's my town.

Peter
C-Dancer
 
My wife and I live in Seattle and visit Portland 1-2X each year. Last time down I was marveling at what I saw as Portland's superiority in cleanliness, urban planning, and especially PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION!!! But upon returning home and taking a fresh look around, I realized that many of Seattle's shortcomings and challenges are simply due to its larger size. Seattle is a much bigger city with correspondingly bigger problems. I suspect larger, liberal cities everywhere are magnets to scuzballs, many of whom aren't locals and have no real stake in the livability, cleanliness, safety, etc., of the city. Seattle is no longer the quaint regional town I grew up in, but the street danger is much lower than the truly big cities like LA, Houston, Chicago, etc. BTW: what's that bright shiny thing I saw in the sky this afternoon? Mike.
 
Seattle only seems bigger than Portland when you're driving through it on the bouncy stretch of I5. Its population is slightly greater (570k/538k), but its area is considerably less (84 sq. mile/130 sq. mile). The population of the metro area in Seattle is much more than Portland, but the metro area is smaller. Maybe that's why it seems more "big cityish" - all them folks stuffed in a small area.
 
We really enjoyed our stay last summer at Bell Harbor in downtown Seattle. In our travels, we've found ourselves in plenty of big cities (not always by preference), and find Seattle to be delightful. Roger (SeaDNA) met us at the marina and took us to an interesting breakfast place a few miles away. Along the way, I commented on the number of homeless people we saw. He said that Seattle was " pretty homeless friendly."

We made several trips to Pike's Market and walked all over downtown, daytime into the evening. We were hit up a few times for handouts, which I politely declined. Never had a problem, never saw anyone urinating on the sidewalk. There were a few characters that looked a bit intimidating, but I figured Joan would kick their butts - it never came to that. :wink: So you don't think we're heartless, we have donated to shelters, where we know the money will be put to good use.

Part of the adventuring is to get a feel for the areas you travel through - whether big cities or wilderness. Big cities tend to provide services for the homeless... so, you see more of them.

I'm grateful I've never been in their position. As far as the panhandlers go, that makes me uncomfortable... I would offer to sweep the parking lot for a meal before I'd ask strangers to give me money. But, again, I've never been there.

I wouldn't give up the interesting things to see in most big cities because of the homeless.

Best wishes,
Jim B.


A summer night in Bell Harbor...

NightSkylineE.jpg
 
What Peter and Jim said. I have lived here all my life (62 years in August) except for two years in the Peace Corps in Turkey (1968 - 1970) and five years in New Jersey (1970 - 1975) - I have never felt unsafe on the streets of Seattle. Also, I would never equate being homeless with being a "scuzzball" - there are plenty of scuzzballs from all walks of life.
 
Pat has a point: perhaps it would be kinder to refer to some behaviors as scuzzballish rather than referring to individuals as scuzzballs. It is an important distinction. And yes, there exists scuzzballish behavior in all walks of life. Mike.
 
Patty and I got jobs in Camden as ESL teachers (what we did in the Peace Corps), and, yes, then I went to Rutgers Camden Law.

Salmon Slayer":38090zaq said:
Pat:

Peace Corps....understandable but how did you end up in New Jersey for 5 years? Rutgers?

Just curious and meaning no offense to New Jersey.
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I'm grateful I've never been in their position. As far as the panhandlers go, that makes me uncomfortable... I would offer to sweep the parking lot for a meal before I'd ask strangers to give me money. But, again, I've never been there.
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Same here. However, there was an interesting item on NPR a month or so ago. Don't remember the city, but there was a concerted effort to shut down the habitual panhandling in a Walmart Parking lot. Not too many problems, but there were a few minor conflicts with employees out in the lot, either retrieving shopping carts, or walking to/from their cars.

Turns out, with a little further investigation, the panhandlers were literally making more than the Walmart employees! The Walmart employees had the benefit of bathroom breaks (something like 6 minutes every two hours), but the panhandlers had no with-holding taxes to worry about.

I think Walmart was somewhat concerned about their employees quitting and going into the panhandling business.

iggy
 
lloyds":1pb561fa said:
Agreed on all points. But, a few years ago I was parked in my sailboat at Riverplace, after most of the activities had ended, rose festival week. Some clown jumped over the hatchboards and down to the salon floor and woke me up. When I tried to grab him I was rewarded with a shoe in the throat. There is some risk in any popular waterfront hangout at night. But in the summer you almost have to leave windows and hatches open. However I am now armed.
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We like staying there but at the secured moorage. Shorepower, security, and close proximity to the bathroom and showers. $30 but worth it vs. having people trample up and down the transient dock all night.

We too had someone board our boat. It was a pack of foreign tourists who wanted to have their pictures taken. We were gone but could see the whole thing from a nearby restaurant. Twas disconcerting.

-Greg
 
westward":nyzkutvx said:
Pat has a point: perhaps it would be kinder to refer to some behaviors as scuzzballish rather than referring to individuals as scuzzballs. It is an important distinction. And yes, there exists scuzzballish behavior in all walks of life. Mike.
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I agree as well. I didn't equate the two, homeless and scuzzballs. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the urinators had homes.

I did an internship in a mission and learned a few things. Many of the homeless choose to be homeless. All were offered paid jobs and shelter in exchange for minimal labor. Most refused, preferring to feed their addictions and wander through life. To many, it was a coherent decision. Additionally, I never felt threatened by any of these men. Most were gentle souls.

The creeps we encountered in Seattle were not like these men. They were lawless who didn't give a damn about society and it's norms. They should not be coddled. They should get three hots and a cot with a barred window view.

-Greg
 
I work in LE in King County. I work for the Sheriff's Office not SPD, but I am basing this on my personal experiences with SPD and Seattle residents in general. Of course there are exceptions, but...

The radically liberal political climate in Seattle is to blame IMO. Lawlessness is allowed. The police are hand-tied by the Seattle mayor and council, creating very low morale. You need only have been here for the WTO in 1999 or the Mardi Gras riots therefter. If the police react complaints pour in and the line rank & file takes the blame. My experience has been that most Seattle residents resent law enforcement and what we represent...until they become a victim.
 
Perhaps the Seattle police experience negative public reactions due to the way they interact with the public.

Some years ago, I was waiting on Alaska Way to enter the ferry terminal. I was 4-5 cars back from turning in when a car came the other way down Alaska Way and turned into the ferry driveway, cutting off the first car waiting to enter from the street. The driver of the waiting car said something to the line crasher about waiting their turn.

The driver of the line crasher got out of his car, took off his street attire jacket exposing his police uniform and proceeded to threaten the complainer with arrest!!

The line crasher was driving a private car, not a police car, not an unmarked car, was wearing a normal street clothes jacket, and no police hat. There was no way anyone could tell he was a police officer, until he exited his car. Even then I thought he might be an imposter, but after threating to arrest a law abiding citizen, he put on his police hat, parked in a fire zone, and proceeded to 'patrol' the ferry parking lot. His method of patrol was to lean against his car with arms crossed and glare at everyone. This was prior to 9-11 and there was no 'terrorist' problem.

What impressed me was that the Seattle PD had such low standards for officer behavior. In discussing that incident with some friends in Seattle, I was informed that that was normal for Seattle PD.

The above is one incident and maybe the officer was on 'punishment' duty or just having a bad day, but I have not heard any of my Seattle friends rave about the 'great' job the Seattle PD does. I don't live in Seattle, and don't plan to.
 
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