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Larry Patrick

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Took trip up Cayuga Lake in very rough conditions. Didn't see much boat traffic. Now realize sayings about boat can handle more than you. Also saying about your fillings coming out. A lot of banging of boat into waves needed to try and make time on 40 mile trip to end of lake then over to Seneca Falls thru locks. After trip had loose screws and header was sagging in berth. Fan near cockpit windows came loose. We left to late in the day ,anymore will leave with enough time to spare for bads conditions.
 
Are you trimming bow down, using Permatrims, and trim table? What was your speed. You should try and avoid running the boat to the point where there are things shaking loose.
 
Two weeks ago I had simular situation in my Ocklawaha Queen, I spent a couple of days at Conch House marina in St Augustine Fl. I decedided to go out to the Atlantic and go north to at least Jacksonville and if things remained ok all the way to Fernandina. I left 3 hours before neutral tide and that was my mistake as well as leaving my two front windows open.
NOA weather said two to three foot seas so I felt very comfortable. The only two inlets to the Atlantic I had been thru were Jacksonville and Fernandina which are military bases and both locations the granite sea walls go much further out than St Augustines inlet. I learned the hard way that a short inlet requires netural tide not two mention leaving my windows open. I did my trim right, the tabs down as well as dolphin on my engine but the waves for the short inlet before netural tide were so steep I managed to get my prop out of the water once as well as every unsecure item was thrown about. One of my brackets for my open wind shield waas ripped from its threads. Luckly I didn't take water over the bow and in thru my open windows. My first 3 or 4 miles were interesting as well, at 4500 Rpms I usually run 19 to 21 mph. Well that day the current would reduce my speed to 10 mph then it would release me back to my normal speed near 20 mph. This current would cycle every 5 minues or so. Got home fixed my window and learned more than I ever would have imaginrd about my 16ft hull, she really is very "sea worthy" more so than me. The two big lessons..... close bow windows for an inlet and only shoot a short inlet at netural tide. Oh and you better have a netural tide to return as well. Theres nothing like learning how little I really know.
 
I have been caught in the Gulf of Alaska LOTS of times and being caught is horrible. I never go out in conditions like that, but am forced to come back to port in them. I agree with Bob once again as if you are tearing things up in the boat you are probably going a bit too fast. Yet, with that said, I wasn't there.
 
How often do we check our bilge pump before going out?

If you get caught, or find yourself in the nasties, take on
serious aft cockpit water with debris or pet hair clogged
or otherwise nonfunctional bilge pump, well, you're sunk.

Aye.
 
I learned the hard way that a short inlet requires netural tide
Click to expand...

Tide is related to the depth of the water, and current is related to velocity of water over the bottom. So the best time to run an inlet is slack or no current. This time may not be the same as the highest or lowest of tides, although logically it might seem to be. It depends on many dynamic factors. Thus it is always good to check the tide and current tables. Look carefully at an inlet--often from inside it may look calmer than it actually is.

Running into an inlet, especially on a ebb tide (water coming out) can be very dangerous. Although our C Dories are very "sea worthy", one has to be cautious. There is a reason that the Coast Guard motor life boats have no real cockpit. They are basically made to survive a capsize. Although a capsize would be unusual, one does not need to tempt fate!

Foggy's comment is very important. Many boats, will have two or more bilge pumps. The way the C Dory sits at level rest, often the water will pool by the foreword end of the cockpit--and that is where the factory bilge pump was put on some boats. Others had the bilge pump placed all of the way aft, right by the drain plug, since that is where water pools when the boat is running at faster speeds, including on a plane.
 
In the summer out east at least. Most crossings on larger bodies of waters are better done early in the day. The afternoons especially in the finger lake region can bring nasty local unpredicted storms. The winds usually come up in the afternoons almost everywhere. It's not always the case, but most times people do crossings early in the day in larger non tidal lakes for that same reason. Severe pounding can almost always be avoided by slowing down. Boats and all their components stay together a little longer if they are not subjected to a lot of harsh treatment. Playing beat the clock in a boat is never good.
D.D.
 
thataway":2y1i1ayi said:
I learned the hard way that a short inlet requires netural tide
Click to expand...

Tide is related to the depth of the water, and current is related to velocity of water over the bottom. So the best time to run an inlet is slack or no current. This time may not be the same as the highest or lowest of tides, although logically it might seem to be. It depends on many dynamic factors. Thus it is always good to check the tide and current tables. Look carefully at an inlet--often from inside it may look calmer than it actually is.

Running into an inlet, especially on a ebb tide (water coming out) can be very dangerous. Although our C Dories are very "sea worthy", one has to be cautious. There is a reason that the Coast Guard motor life boats have no real cockpit. They are basically made to survive a capsize. Although a capsize would be unusual, one does not need to tempt fate!

Foggy's comment is very important. Many boats, will have two or more bilge pumps. The way the C Dory sits at level rest, often the water will pool by the foreword end of the cockpit--and that is where the factory bilge pump was put on some boats. Others had the bilge pump placed all of the way aft, right by the drain plug, since that is where water pools when the boat is running at faster speeds, including on a plane.
Click to expand...

I'd add that a slack tide is not necessarily better than a flood tide - especially on river bars. A flood will flatten out the swells at a river bar better than a slack tide as it will counteract the current outflow of the river.

As for Foggy's point about checking your bilge pumps, my guess is that those with a 22 do it far more often than those with a 25 or a Tomcat where checking the bilge pump means looking beneath the cockpit floor. If you haven't installed hatches in the floor above the pumps, this requires opening the hatches on the stern and putting one's head into a hole. I've taken to rinsing out my bilges on the Tomcat with freshwater so that I can see the pumps activate and pump the bilges dry. This also allows me to visually inspect the flow rate.
 
Roger's point is very well made. There are different dynamics on the various types of inlets, and a river bar has different dynamics than some of the other types of inlets. Some inlets or passages can only be crossed in high slack water or near--for example the Ford's Terror inlet.

Also local knowledge is often essential in bars. Often the CG buoys are not exactly in the correct place for the best passage because of the dynamics of the bar and water. We have accepted CG accompaniment on a number of occasions, or followed local boats on bars where there was significant danger.

Although we think of the Western Coast US bars as more dangerous than the Eastern, often the Eastern can be very dangerous in onshore storms. My own experience is that the CG monitors the states of the bars in the West better than in the East. But the CG can be wrong. An example was once crossing the Coos Bay Bar in Oregon, and we had CG clearance as a "go". As we went out a 12 foot breaker came over the bow of our 46 foot boat, and the bar was immediately closed. (This did not appear to be a "sneaker"--because there were a series of breakers which followed.) Other boats had to wait for entrance, or go on up the coast. These situations can be an issue because of fuel range for many boats.

Be safe--don't take chances! Remember the two boys who were lost in the 19 foot boat only a couple of weeks ago on the East Coast!
 
Hi everybody the Ocklawaha Q has a question ? Do you guys think my 16 cruiser weighing
roughly 1300 lbs with fuel and motor has a big handeling difference compared to yall's 4000 lb 22 cruiser. I stepped on board a 22 from my boat last year and I could not belive the difference. My toy is just like a dingy by comparison. I understand all of the C Dorys float like a cork but the difference in weight makes me curious. I used to race Lasers so trimming all the time is just reflex, in fact I like it since I can't sail any more. :smile
When I was out in the Atlantic two weeks ago it was pretty exciting like riding a horse, the intervals were far enough apart to feel like a small meadow and add the current holding me and releasing me was pretty exciting. If ya'll think I'm foolish I'd like some input, I'll try and take it well. I've trained in kayaks and have run the Grand Canyon, I raced 470's & Lasers so I have a love for getting my heart rate up. I'm not crazy but I have a lot of nerve, I'm 61 and I'm just trying to play my "Sand in the our Glass" tight not commit suicide. :wink:
 
I don't think you're crazy, and you'd really like my good friend Phil because you and he sound like two peas.....Anyway, my only concern with operating in marginal conditions is when they get worse than marginal, and the will get worse on you eventually, with no way out or place to wait things out, the closest land is often the bottom. And, it is somewhere I don't really want to go.
 
Well time being a factor ,I pushed the boat learning that I don't want to do it again. Didn't realize till after that some things had come lose. I remembered everyone saying the boat can take more than you,so I figured no harm in trying to get up to locks before I thought they would close. Everything is a learning expierence,certainly don't want to beat boat up we really like our boat. Only used the engine to trim it has permatrim on it didn't use trim tabs but thought about it. Guess I was sort of checking out its capabilities in choppy waves.Look forward to waves that have longer periods between them . Im guessing 40 miles took in nieghboorhood of 3.5hrs,give or take. After starting out wanted to make it some place safe to stay for night,we had generator with us if needed so pushed it to find good place to stay. Ended up locks were open til 10 at night ,so could have slowed down. When I saw some things loose .I said anymore will go according to conditions and leave earlier. GPS showed between 6mph and around 20 mph depending on how hard it pounded after a while would slow down again.. Once when I stopped to flip from stern tank to starboard tank boat got sideways and really rocked and rolled. On return trip lake was flat at times gps showed 30 mph with throttle all the way,but would change it up to let engine not be pushed all the way back.
 
Jimicliff, TR is correct, that you don't want to be out in conditions which get worse than you can handle. Things like running the GC, racing lasers, etc are fairly controlled situations. Rough weather--lets say 25 knots, going to 50 knots, waves 3 feet going to 10 feet breaking, becomes dangerous. Weather reports/forecasts are not always accurate.

Yes, there is a huge difference between a 16 and a 22, a bit less between a 22 and 25, and some more between the 25 and Tom Cat.
 
You guys are so cool, you feel like older brothers, I'm not crazy just nervy, nothing new nothing to prove. :beer Lifes short then you die :cry
 
Larry Patrick":39ow2cmn said:
Once when I stopped to flip from stern tank to starboard tank boat got sideways
Click to expand...

Larry, some things I would recommend trying based on my experiences with 2 tank boats.

If boating in marginal(rough) conditions I would only run the first tank down to about 1/4. Rough conditions have a way of stirring up any crud on the bottom and you don't want to pick any up and risk clogging something at a bad time. This also helps a bit with trim.

If you have a first mate aboard slow down to hull speed(just enough speed to maintain headway and steerage) then one of you make the tank switch and continue on.

If you have fuel injection it is not recommended to run the engine out of fuel. Also if you do run until engine dies - some are a bit cranky trying to restart when hot.

Regards, Rob
 
Thanks to all for good information, nice to hear similar stories and knowledge of storms later in day and tides going in and out of inlets. Look forward to getting out in some salt water one of these days.
 
Aye out there.

Don't forget the USCG's most frequent call is for vessels
that have run out of fuel.

Therefore, remember the old adage about fuel consumption:
1/3 to get there, 1/3 to get back, 1/3 reserved for emergency.

Aye.
 
Larry,r
Your boat should run near 40 mph wide open throttle and about 5800 to 5900 rpms. The bottom must need waxing or is at least sort of cruddy.
D.D.
 
Hi Dave ,I gotta lot of crud on hull from sitting all summer. Even though I brushed it a few times. Good to hear speed is even more than I thought . Was looking at GPS speed . Next season will have boat bottom painted and hopefully just car wash it or power wash it. Keeping it at Lake Erie next season,thats the plan. Just pulled boat out and trailered it to lake erie this past week. Stopped at car wash on 13 leaving Ithaca after jogging it around and backing into outside wash, nothing worked in car wash,was disappointed wanted to see how clean it would have gotten.
 
" I am not crazy , I am just nevry" I highly resemble that remark when it comes to anything with a motor. And just like you its my decision as long as I'm alone. And that is what i would caution you about. In the Marines we only run/hike as fast as the slowest guy. Why? Well because if you dont you could end up arriving to a gun fight by your self. Same goes with boats, cars, truck ( 4x4 ) and motorcycles. You need to take the comfort level of all others into consideration as long as they are not being silly/hysterical. If you don't you could end up boating, riding or wheeling by your self. I have seen more then one marriage, friendship or relationship end over such thing.

Susan trust me in a boat and will go with my judgement but I still remember to consider her comfort level. It keeps me in check and married.
 
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