King Trailer owners - check your disc brakes

Seabran,

I think it all depends on if you want to spend the money. The vented brakes are a much better way to go IMHO. The venting will allow you to have cooler brakes and that means that they will stop better! At the very least, if you keep the non-vented brakes make sure to have the highest quality brake fluid you can. IE: Dot 4 if your system can't use Dot 5 or Dot 5 if it can. Dot 5 will work much better if it has the correct seals in the system. The reason is that as a synthetic it has a higher boiling point. Since your system will have hot brakes the higher boiling point will greatly affect how well your system will work!

If you ever notice after a long hard stop that your trailer brakes don't seem to be working make sure and change the fluid in the system. Once brake fluid boils it is worthless IMHO.
 
I was not pleased with the response I received when I spoke to the King people at the SBS. His response was that it has everything to do with the driver not the brakes on the King Trailer. (Even though they have now upgrade to the vented model) He claims too many of us don't properly level our trailers, go down hill to often and don't realize that every time you slow down with surge brakes they are applied. He went so far as to say you may have to be willing to pull over and wait for 10 - 15 minutes to let your brakes cool down.

I wish they would simply own up to the fact they installed an inferior product and are not willing to stand behind it. I gotta believe this will hurt them in the long run. I really like my King trailer and have had good customer support on other issues. This brake thing just totally stinks.

Needless to say we all needed to be inspecting our brake pads frequently.
 
...go down hill to often..
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Did you mention to the gentleman that most of the launch ramps in the NW are near sea level and most of the houses where the boats are parked are of necessity a little higher? The whole line you were fed is a crock. Those brakes will last forever if you don't move the trailer I guess.

I have a set of four new calipers with pads to install as soon as I get to it. My pads are completely gone in less than 3k miles. So are the screw heads. And the calipers need rebuilt but that is not worth doing when you can get the complete replacement for about $65 each from Champion Trailer Parts. I also had them ship me a full set of new pads and plan to change them a lot sooner next time.

As for the brakes being applied so often (or more correctly, too easily), that is a design problem in my opinion. The actuator does not have enough resistance to sliding and the brakes get pumped with every little reduction in throttle. Maybe if you're towing with a light car that's a good thing, but I have a 7500 pound tow rig and I don't need those silly little trailer brakes unless I need to stop fast. Not even going down hill (which I understand we are not supposed to do?). They should provide a way to do that without making it stiff to release as well. The design of the calipers won't let the pads retract quickly enough as it is, and making them go tight again evertime you hit a bump doesn't give them a chance. That's why the pads wear so fast and that's where the heat comes from. The best thing would be an expensive electric controlled system, but I figured you shouldn't need that on a simple boat trailer. If you do need it, then they shouldn't be allowed to sell the trailers without it.

The big hairbrained plan I alluded to in some other thread is a way to minimize the frequent and unneeded application problem. I was thinking of making some spring loaded devices to attach to both sides of the actuator to give it a couple or a few hundred pounds of resistance to collapsing. They would be easy to fashion using 1" bore stainless air cylinders with some hurky springs inside behind the piston. Simple, and it would even look cool. I can scrounge up the stuff to do it for next to nothing, so it is a better option for me than upgrading the whole system.

OK Sneaks - go ahead and beat the crap out of me for that idea. You can't blame this one on my truck, though. Maybe a Chevy on the trailer for dead weight would help - the Dodge wouldn't even know it's there.
 
Another thing I discovered is that I need to do a better job of rinsing the brakes and calipers after they have been in the water. I think I will install a freshwater washdown system like B~C did. I wonder if he has any more of those fancy stainless nozzels he used?
 
TyBoo":b536jwgb said:
OK Sneaks - go ahead and beat the crap out of me for that idea. You can't blame this one on my truck, though. Maybe a Chevy on the trailer for dead weight would help - the Dodge wouldn't even know it's there.
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Nope, I have a similar tow situation, it's just that my tow vehicle is infinitely better behaved than yours, Mike.

If it were practical, I'd simply change the wire leading from my backup lights to the surge brake defeat solenoid. Replace it with an on off switch so I could basically turn off the surge brakes as I choose. Not safe though, and those solenoids are both expensive and NOT rated for continuous use.

Probably the best solution is what Boris and Joe did. Install electric over hydraulic braking and use the dash mounted controller sensitivity appropriately.

Don
 
Speaking of changing the surge brakes to electronic controls, which I think are infinitely superior, does anyone have a source for the electronic controllers? I have a 2006 EZ Loader dual axle and am tired of having the brakes lock up when I back up. Arrggh!!
 
Colobear, I have the same problem with an identical trailer (2006 tandem ezloader). I thought it was just me. The lockout solenoid is suppossed to prevent that from happening, but mine was always locking up in my driveway, I started resorting to manually locking it out, until the manual lockout just dropped off the hitch while trailering :shock: I'm not sure if I can replace just that part or if I have to buy a whole new actuator etc... So you king owners don't feel too bad, us guys with ezloaders have our share of warm fuzzy's too.

Sark
 
Sneakyboy, for the first time I am going to admit that perhaps your truck is better suited to towing my trailer than my Dodge. Them Chevys have to stop pretty often to fix something anyway, so the trailer brakes would get plenty of chances to cool down like the King guy suggests.
 
No question a fresh water brake washdown system is Cadallac. Anyone doing so might try all plastic parts. Lacking such a system, I religiously apply a fresh water rinse to my (new/replaced, vented, more robust) brakes on my King ( as per posting #1 in this thread) and then apply a liberal coating of Salt Away. This on the advice of Gary Estes in Issaquah - trailer guy extraordinare.

Am now gearing up to put radials on the King (after only about 2,000 miles of use on the non radials) - sorely needed - and now also "standard" equipment on a King...

BTW - anyone interested in adjusting the surge action on their trailers should check with a trailer expert - I am almost sure this can be adjusted. I would not do this without expert input.

Also BTW, when I am driving down hill (and I do pull over from time to time), I have found the brakes are much cooler if I: a) use a lower gear; and b) pump the brakes rather than apply them constantly - and doing so a little sharply to slow down more than usual, then "pop" the accelerator to pull the surge brakes off (temporarily).

Also all: be careful about disconnecting/modifying surge brake systems. In many states they are required for trailers over 3000 or so pounds (so I understand). Check with your state DOT.
 
I think the state brake requirement calls for "Brakes" and does not specify surge brakes specifically. I have pulled my 19' travel trailer many thousands of miles and have not had the slightest problem with the electronic brakes. I think about the only places you wil see surge brakes nowadays is on boat trailers and rental trailers (U-Haul, etc.). Maybe the fact that boat trailers get wet often is the reason they have the mechanical surge brakes rather than the electronic brakes. I am going to seriously investigate converting to electronic brakes.
 
Colobear, various states differ on the brake requirement. Some like Florida require the brakes to be on all axles, others just one axle.

For a boat you might want to consider an electric accentuator over the hyraulic system which already exists. The electromagnetic brakes used in travel trailers don't do so well in salt water, or in any full immersion use. The electric over hydaulic conversion is relitatively simple and allows use of the electronic brake controlers which you are used to with the travel trailers.
Regards,
 
Bob, (Thataway)

Thanks very much. I was not planning to insert an electromagnetic brake into a water environment but didn't really know what was involved in converting. Do you have any suggestions for sources? I am relatively able to do most of my own stuff so I am planning (tentatively) to buy the necessary parts and make the conversion myself.

For those who may be considering this, be aware that you will need to purchase an electronic brake controller, wire it and mount it inside the tow vehicle. With it you can manually apply the trailer brakes before the tow vehicle brakes (great for straightening yaws/shimmying), set the strength of braking and the amount of tow vehicle braking necessary to activate the trailer brakes. I have used a Tekonsha brand controller for years. Expect to pay about $150 for the controller, relays, and wiring if you do it yourself.
 
...amount of tow vehicle braking necessary to activate the trailer brakes.
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Bingo. How much for the trailer conversion parts? My unstudied understanding is it is a solenoid type gizmo that will actuate the master cylinder? Same master cylinder and trailer coupler I have now?

Thanks.
 
TyBoo":1n3cguag said:
Bingo. How much for the trailer conversion parts? My unstudied understanding is it is a solenoid type gizmo that will actuate the master cylinder? Same master cylinder and trailer coupler I have now?
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Nope. Go to Ebay and search on BrakeRite electric over hydraulic disc brake actuator. That guy sells a whole kit, all you really need is the actuator and the breakaway switch assembly, plus a non-surge trailer coupler I suppose. I understand Kodiak makes it and you can find a link to the installation manual there on ebay. It replaces the whole ball of wax and you throw away the old master cylinder, Mike.

Not cheep
 
Sea Skipper rides on a King KBT7000 (8,600 Gross Wt. Rating - actual weight with boat about 8,400#) with the old style Tie Down Eng. non-ventilated disk brakes on each axle. I've towed her about 6,000 miles or 7 trips from home to the coast over 3 mountain passes each way. The Ford tow vehicle has a built in electronic brake controller and the trailer is equipped with a Carlisle electric over hydraulic brake actuator. The brake pads look like they are good for a least another season. This gives credence to the suggestion that the surge brake controllers may be applying the brakes more than necessary or perhaps not completely releasing the brakes? I wish I had the new style ventilated brakes, but can't complain so far. Note: The Ford and some other styles of electric brake controllers require a supplementary adapter for use with the Carlise actuator.
 
I have the Carlisle electric-hydraulic brakes on Journey On (actually, the trailer.) I also got a 06 ford truck, the cheap one, which didn't come with a "factory" brake controller.

Bought a Teshonka Voyager for $70, and wired it right in to the harness Ford put in the truck. Glued it into the ash tray with some velcro, so when I don't need it, I can move it and close the tray. Works great with the Carlisle brake actuator. The response is noticeable but not a problem.

Now, if I had bought the expensive Dorf, I'd either need the $90 adapter, or I could have cut the factory electronic controller and put in the Voyager. Fancy things tend to cause problems. The truck came with both 7 pin and 3 pin connectors.

Boris
 
There are at least three electric over hyraulic accentuators. I have seen some using the same master cyl, others adding the complete unit. The cost is generally about $550 to $650 for the accentuator, plus the controller unit, and wiring. Many trucks are already wired. You do have to have a break away battery also.

http://shop.easternmarine.com/index.cfm ... goryID=309

http://www.etrailerpart.com/PDF/brake-r ... r-INI4.pdf is the manual for the BrakeRite.

The three I am aware of are Dexter, Carlise & BrakeRite. Carlise has a fancy unit, which is accelerometer activated, with a wireless controller--costs about $1K and sounds a bit less reliable, but I have never used one.

As Colobear notes you have to have the appropiate controler and that is going to be another hundred dollars or so.

We are definately putting E/H with a equalizer hitch/anti sway--but we are very close to 10K tow weight with the TC 255 loaded up. I have done enough big truck mountain driving, that I want the best braking system I can have for a rig when we get into descending steep grades.--also with slippery conditions, you can apply the trailer brakes lightly to pull out of a dangerous situation, if the truck starts to slide.
 
Exactly!! I came down a steep switchback sheet ice pass road couple of years ago, towing my travel trailer with a 2WD pickup. At the bottom my trailer brakes were very hot because all the way down they had kept me from jackknifing and sliding off the edge but we made it safely.
 
For info only, I inquired at Pacific Trailer about the cost of converting a single axle Kodiak disc surge brake system to dual axle electric over hydraulic and this is their reply:

Good morning, The cost of the electric over hydraulic is about $1400.00 less installation of 2 hrs at $85.00 per hour. The cost of disc brakes are $500.00 per axle less installation at 1.5 hrs at $85.00 per hour. You are looking at a "ROUGH" price of $2200.00 to convert and set up. The system will set your trailer to a 7-way connector the tow vehicle must have this, and must be working correctly!! If you have any more questions feel free to let me know. I will gladly assist in anyway i can. Have a nice day..
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