Keel Guard Screw Missing

C

covalbro

New member
All,

After a full day on the water on our 2000 C-22 we discovered water slowly coming up through the berth step just as we returned to the dock. We quickly pulled the boat out and its now on the trailer. When we pulled it out it was evident that the water was coming from the keel guard area. I've read several forums related to keel guard issues but none seem to fit my exact scenario. The last screw on the keep guard (furthest aft) backed itself out and is missing. Water quickly drained out of the hole once we had it on the hard. From my estimate, we had the boat out of the water within an hour or so of the water coming through.

Any advice on how to go about the repair. My first reaction is to just leave the boat on the trailer (tipped nose down so all water drains to the missing screw area) for a week or two and replace the screw and bed it into some 5200 sealant. I'd really like to avoid any over-drilling or cutting access holes into the berth to get at the foam, but don't want to risk trapping water inside when I reset the screw. Some folks have been recommending using a thickened epoxy up in the screw hole rather than sealant--thoughts? Any recommendations on specific products would be appreciated--or advice on how to effectively inject it into the screw hole from the bottom up.

Thanks so much for your time and help!

Brody
Salish-C
2000 C-22
 
It appears that you lost the aft most screw in the brass strip which is under the bow. (KeelGuard is a plastic protector which can be placed externally over this same area).

The brass strip on the 22, I believe is under about the same area as the 25, as I recollect. The last screw is probably under the raised platform where the portipotty sits in the 22. this may or may not be filled with foam. If there is a "stopper" on the top, it is filled with foam.

I would repair this properly and be rid of the problem. If there is water soaked foam, it may not fully dry out over a several week period of time,.

I woud cut a 4" hole in the fiberglass (exact dimensions dictated by the inspection plate you purchase to cover this hole. For example the West Marine 4" plate requires about a 4.5" hole.)

Remove any foam. Measure the depth of the hole in the. hull, this may be an over drilled pilot hole (and you will want to check the others along the strip.) To do the job properly the entire strip should be removed. The screw threads may have worked loose in the screw which fell out--and there may be some fiberglass damage around the hole.

Clean and lightly sand the surface of the hull, to get a good bond with new fiberglass you will lay down. If using polyester resin, then a layer of mat and a layer of cloth. If epoxy, just two layers of cloth. I would prefer epoxy for secondary bonding characteristics being better. The hull may be thin in this area (should not be) because some glass should overlap from each side along the keel area. Or the hole drilled too deep.

I would overdrill the hole, and then fill with thickened epoxy or Six-10 West Systems. Inject with a syringe. You may want to over drill the other holes, if any seem loose. Redial the pilot holes. Be careful to not go thru the new inner hull glass.

You will want to clean the inner surface of the strip, probably. with bronze wool, or 600 sandpaper to remove any corrosion. Then put the strip and screws in with 5200.
 
Bob, thanks so much for the detailed suggestion! A bit of a process and a daunting task with my limited experience but seems doable. You are correct that it is the brass strip, thanks for the correction. It seems you're spot on with the location of the last screw--though I'm not sure about a "stopper". Theres a ~2" tall lip that keeps the portapotty from sliding aft, which steps down out of the berth area onto the floor between the front seats.

A couple follow-up questions for your recommended solution; where should I cut the access hole? Directly beneath the portapotty footprint? Also, once I drill a primary hole, would you recommend using a fine-tooth blade on a jig saw to achieve the 4.5" opening? Once that's opened up, how much foam should I try to remove? As far as can be reached or just enough to lay the new glass cloth in? I have some experience with epoxy resin and fiberglass cloth, so if I lay in two new layers centered around that hole, applied from the inside of the new access hole, then I should be able to just inject thickened epoxy from below to fill the remaining void of the original screw hole, correct?

Many many thanks for your advice and feedback! This community is incredibly helpful.

Best,
Brody
 
covalbro":s5q8odpu said:
Bob, thanks so much for the detailed suggestion! A bit of a process and a daunting task with my limited experience but seems doable. You are correct that it is the brass strip, thanks for the correction. It seems you're spot on with the location of the last screw--though I'm not sure about a "stopper". Theres a ~2" tall lip that keeps the portapotty from sliding aft, which steps down out of the berth area onto the floor between the front seats.

A couple follow-up questions for your recommended solution; where should I cut the access hole? Directly beneath the portapotty footprint? Also, once I drill a primary hole, would you recommend using a fine-tooth blade on a jig saw to achieve the 4.5" opening? Once that's opened up, how much foam should I try to remove? As far as can be reached or just enough to lay the new glass cloth in? I have some experience with epoxy resin and fiberglass cloth, so if I lay in two new layers centered around that hole, applied from the inside of the new access hole, then I should be able to just inject thickened epoxy from below to fill the remaining void of the original screw hole, correct?

Many many thanks for your advice and feedback! This community is incredibly helpful.

Best,
Brody
Click to expand...

You kind of need to figure out where the end of the brass strip is in relation to the interior. If nothing else, I would measure from the stern to the end of the brass strip along the outside bottom of the boat. Then I would measure the same distance on the inside (from the transom forward) allowing for the thickness of the transom (about 2") to find where I needed to make the hole in the floor of the V-berth area.

I would use a hole saw appropriate to the size of the deck plate you are putting in to make the opening porta-potti area.

You should remove all the wet foam and any more that is needed to clear the area you want to repair. Newer boats don't have any foam in them in this area, so whatever foam is in your boat is not required. A number of others have removed any foam that was in their boat's v-berth area to increase the storage space. My '08 came from the factory without any foam in it.
 
ssobol gives you spot on information. A hole saw is best if you have a 1/2" heavy duty drill which will swing it. The fiberglass will not be thick there.

You want to remove all foam down to the fiberglass of the hull. It is possible that you don't have foam--but I believe that my 2006 did have foam.

When foam is injected post build there will be a black plug usually about an inch and 1/4 on the top of the laminate, which plugs the hole drilled in the glass where the foam was injected. If you have anything like that, it is probably the best place to start your hole. See if you can approximate from the stern (allowing for thickness of transom, about where the screw hole will be.

You need to get all of the way down to the inner surface of the bottom. The new glass should be laid directly on the inner surface of the hull, after it is cleaned, dried and prepped. Nothing to inject under it. I would want to double check the next few screws up also. The hull here is solid glass, it should be thicker than the glass on each side of the balsa core aft, but you never know. It is possible that in the past there was some flexing of the hull, and that worked the screw loose. Brass is stiffer than fiberglass. Especially if the boat had been pounded into chop etc.

Keep in touch, and there are a number of folks who will help walk you thru it. If you have already done some epoxy and glass work , it should be not a great challenge.
 
All, I spoke with a service rep for C-Dory and gained some insight, but am looking for some feedback. The rep said that my year hull was built by Fluid Marine in Seattle, so we can't get detailed construction info on it anymore. Regardless, he said that he recommends I remove the brass strip, slightly overdrill the screw holes and fill with a thickened epoxy, finishing it off by adding an adhesive-mounted rubber keel guard.

He didn't provide me the unwavering assurance I was looking for that no water would have made it to the balsa--any insights on that? If there's any chance at all that it did, this is starting to sound like a project better left to professionals. He did say however that regardless of if I have foam or not, the foam used in these hulls won't soak up any water--thus it should all drain back out of the screw hole.

Thanks again for the advice! Trying to make sure I fully understand the scope of the project before diving in, or deciding to take it to a marine repair shop.

Much appreciated!
 
Sorry to disagree with the experts at the factory--but most foams (even closed cell) will trap water, and it is better to get foam out of there if wet. Ask old Boston Whaler owners...Same with boats which have built in tanks, which corrode away from salt water trapped against the hull. There are some closed cell foams which don't adsorb any water, but the expanding foams will trap. You need to repair this area properly. The epoxy plugs may be adequate. If it were my boat, I would lay the glass in--not a not more work. Plus then you now know for sure it is fixed. My opinion is free--and worth what you paid for it.

My best guess is that there will be no balsa core involvement--the balsa seems to have always stopped at the platform which the bulkhead and V berth molding start. But there could be variations. You would find out soon enough when you open it up.
 
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