Is shutting down the economy worth it?
- Thread starter Gene&Mary
- Start date
I agree we need to speed up getting back to work. But VA hospitals have or are running out of masks, testing and related supplies are still not readily available, we do not have the staff to do contact tracing.
The national government should have been planning ramp up all of these things in January, it knew about the possible dangers the last few days of December. Actual ramp up should have begun no later than the end of February.
The national government should have been planning ramp up all of these things in January, it knew about the possible dangers the last few days of December. Actual ramp up should have begun no later than the end of February.
There are covid specific antiviral drugs under development. These will probably be ready before a vaccine.It's a process; Sheltering lowers the curve , reduces the burden on health care, gives time to develop treatment and prevention regimens. Opening up will be in stages based on geography, demography, morbidty, and others. In the meantime I go on long walks, binge watch tv, mess about on the C-brats and have a Seattle Mariners mask. Try to stay positive.
Da Nag
Yes it's good to live life knowing it is merely temporary.
The difference in a pandemic, with a serious deadly highly contagious disease vs
a non-contagious calamity (the bomb, earth quakes, volcanoes, accidents,
tornados, hurricanes, etc) when one lives only for himself (say as an
asymptomatic carrier of contagious Hepatitis B, AIDS or COVID-19), that person's
actions affects others, not just himself. Huge difference.
If you're interested in death and how it affects our lives, read Becker, who some
say has had significant impact on social psychology and the psychology of religion
and others consider the father of modern psychology.
Aye.
Yes it's good to live life knowing it is merely temporary.
The difference in a pandemic, with a serious deadly highly contagious disease vs
a non-contagious calamity (the bomb, earth quakes, volcanoes, accidents,
tornados, hurricanes, etc) when one lives only for himself (say as an
asymptomatic carrier of contagious Hepatitis B, AIDS or COVID-19), that person's
actions affects others, not just himself. Huge difference.
If you're interested in death and how it affects our lives, read Becker, who some
say has had significant impact on social psychology and the psychology of religion
and others consider the father of modern psychology.
Aye.
One of the great books of human psychology. Another from a few decades later is Philosophy in the Flesh. In some ways it may be out of date, cognitive science moves on, but it was on of the first popular, but difficult, books on how humans really deal with the 'big' issues of philosophy. How do human brains see free will or choice, time, causation, consciousness, etc.
Marty,
What you say makes tons of sense if you pre-suppose those in control possess some urgency to progress. Here in WA I'm no longer seeing that. I believe our governor did a fantastic job initially in managing the response and eventually ordering things shut down, all at a very uncertain time. We "flattened the curve" as it were. But now he seems so caught up in the national political talk show circuit and sparring with Trump, that our State's response is regressing. For example, we're neither treating lots of COVID+ patients nor other patients at UWMC, and the hospital's finances are suffering greatly. We have a languishing capacity of skilled health care, ready to be of service.
At some point we'll need to see local action supplant grumbling about a botched federal response (however justified), or a lack of testing kits. We are where we are. We don't need federal assistance to begin the education and planning required to safely and sensibly move forward, so that folks have some sense of their role in an action plan, and hope for the future.
I personally believe a well-planned, incremental, science/education-based re-opening is not only possible, but critically necessary. Starting now. The consequences of continued economic shutdown for very much longer will ultimately create more suffering and mortality than the virus itself - it just won't be seen nor felt as immediately. It will be felt most acutely by the frail and downtrodden amongst us. The cynical part of me thinks that politicians (all parties included) care more about being in front of the camera than solving problems.
As an aside, I'm pretty impressed by the C-Brats' collective ability to discuss sensitive topics in such a civilized manner. Says a lot about the overall character of the group!
I fully agree about the benefits of getting outside for some fresh air. We're heading out now.
What you say makes tons of sense if you pre-suppose those in control possess some urgency to progress. Here in WA I'm no longer seeing that. I believe our governor did a fantastic job initially in managing the response and eventually ordering things shut down, all at a very uncertain time. We "flattened the curve" as it were. But now he seems so caught up in the national political talk show circuit and sparring with Trump, that our State's response is regressing. For example, we're neither treating lots of COVID+ patients nor other patients at UWMC, and the hospital's finances are suffering greatly. We have a languishing capacity of skilled health care, ready to be of service.
At some point we'll need to see local action supplant grumbling about a botched federal response (however justified), or a lack of testing kits. We are where we are. We don't need federal assistance to begin the education and planning required to safely and sensibly move forward, so that folks have some sense of their role in an action plan, and hope for the future.
I personally believe a well-planned, incremental, science/education-based re-opening is not only possible, but critically necessary. Starting now. The consequences of continued economic shutdown for very much longer will ultimately create more suffering and mortality than the virus itself - it just won't be seen nor felt as immediately. It will be felt most acutely by the frail and downtrodden amongst us. The cynical part of me thinks that politicians (all parties included) care more about being in front of the camera than solving problems.
As an aside, I'm pretty impressed by the C-Brats' collective ability to discuss sensitive topics in such a civilized manner. Says a lot about the overall character of the group!
I fully agree about the benefits of getting outside for some fresh air. We're heading out now.
It is said that the primary role of a psychiatrist or psychologist is to get the patient to return for another visit.
I truly believe that the primary goal of each politician is to get himself/herself re-elected so he/she can return to waste more of his/her time and taxpayers money.
Rarely do "solutions" come from central government--state or federal.
I truly believe that the primary goal of each politician is to get himself/herself re-elected so he/she can return to waste more of his/her time and taxpayers money.
Rarely do "solutions" come from central government--state or federal.
Gene&Mary
New member
Oldguy83- just to correct mistaken statements regarding history, impeachment ended on Feb 5. During impeachment and for some weeks after, Mr. Trump's main activities were campaign rallies and playing golf.
Sorry to interrupt a good discussion.
Sorry to interrupt a good discussion.
thataway":3i2q6m3y said:
If "... the primary role of a psychiatrist or psychologist is to get the patient to return for another visit ..." (i.e. resulting in more charges), it doesn't seem that much different from a politician trying to get re-elected so as to continue collecting/wasting taxpayer money.
The ultimate goal of any health care worker should be to get the patient well enough that the health care worker never sees them again, not maintaining a status quo that results in the patient returning again and again. Granted, this is not always possible.
Like in the movie Ghost Town, as Bertrum is leaving the hospital in good health, the nurse says "Hope we see you again soon." To which Bertram replies "What a horrible thing to say!"
Peter & Judy
New member
A few months ago I had my annual physical with my Doctor. When I returned home my wife asked, "So what did the Doctor say?"
My Reply 'I'm gonna die." No word about when though.
smckean (Tosca)
New member
So easy to criticize the players on the court while you're sitting in the stands.
ssobol":2mbtcokv said:
The psychiatrist/psychologist goal in having the patient return is not monetary, it is to continue the psychotherapy for the health of the paitient. The practice of psychology/psychietry is different than the rest of the practice of medicine which is to heal the patient and keep that patient well. Psychotherapy is ongoing, and if the patient fails to return, that is the end of therapeutic relationship. Not the greed of the psychiatrist/psychologist.
The politician's goal is a bit different. His role in society is dependent on getting re-elected--which commands power, influence, and in many cases monetary gain.
Gene&Mary
New member
"The politician's goal is a bit different. His role in society is dependent on getting re-elected--which commands power, influence, and in many cases monetary gain."
Maybe we need term limits.
We should also get rid of gerrymandering
[/quote][/i]
Maybe we need term limits.
We should also get rid of gerrymandering
[/quote][/i]
DrewbirdII
New member
Is shutting down the economy worth it? Don`t know, but I do know talking politics is a no win. On a bright note, I spent a week isolating in Barkley Sound on the boat, and I`ve never seen the sky so dark blue and clear. No jet streams or noise on the radio, no other boats. At night the stars where so bright, their reflection danced on the water! Maybe we are being shown something? Just saying.
Take care.... Jim.
Take care.... Jim.
kennharriet
Member
Enjoy the sky for now. It will soon be obscured by smoke in a naturally functioning wildfire dependent ecosystem.