Is bigger better? Help!

seawolf":16jplskd said:
If it doesn't, it will be easier to resell and move up than if you decide you don't need all that bigger boat and have to move back down.

This is true because the 22 is much easier to resell simply because it is more affordable to most and fits most folks needs.
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Joe,
I agree that it is easy to sell a 22 (or in my case, a 16, and then a 22) however it is my experience that you will lose some money on each sale. I did any way. Several thousand each time.

For me, the 25 is the far better cruising boat for us and our two dogs. Mainly for the added room, and that is considerable. More space to pass in the aisle, more storage, and able to carry a bigger cruising payload.
A bigger dog can actually take up more space than a person as they don't utilize the seats and tend to want to swim and romp on the beach a lot more and then bring the accumulated sand and moisture back aboard. :roll: We've had three adults and the two dogs about for a three day trip and that was not too bad.
As far as trailering and launching goes, the 22 is slightly easily to launch and retrieve. Towing, given the he proper vehicle is not an issue to me. I definitely wouldn't go back to my 22 for cruising. Although I might be talked into getting a 16 again for just fishing. :lol:
Ron
 
Lots of good info so far from folks far more experienced than I with the C-Dory. However, a significant difference between the 22 and the larger craft is the beam. The others are wider. I think that is what ppl are referring to when they mention "elbow room" and "passing room".

For many years I have dreamed of owning a CD 22. I love the 22, and feel like I will eventually end up owning one when hauling the big TomCat around gets to be too much. For now, I am working and feel like I can always go back down (down, size-wise only) to the 22 as an old codger... The 22 is like the VW camper van, the absolute in efficiency, light weight, low cost use, low hassle, etc..

The ladies generally want the enclosed head and I am not that far behind, esp. if company is aboard. There is more room and speed on the TomCat for grandkids, pets, company, water toys, etc..

Having had to tear out, clean and rebuild several true marine heads and holding tanks, the porta-potti (best in a closed head), or Pat Anderson's composting unit, look like alot less hassle. I do like the new 9gal head/tank combos on the TomCats now, since you have total access if there is a problem, but still not as easy as a porta-potti when problems arise.


Good luck, have fun, and hitch a ride any time you can! John
 
I love the 16 footer. For two people it's almost everything the 22 footer is but all the costs are at least half. (We had the Wallas for heat on the 22, but never even boiled water with it Our Lil Buddy heater cost $67) And we do probably twice as much day boating as we did on the 22. While it's not quite the Harley of boating it probably is the Miata. Life is too short for me to be concerned about all the stuff in the tech discussions. If the weather is half-way decent we just back up the Volvo and go. A day on the water costs about this- Gas 7.00, Ramp fee $8.00, lunch for two 15.00, propane $2.50. If I ever buy another boat, and I doubt it, it would probably be the 14 footer.
 
When we were first married, some 47 years ago, Dotty and I would meet for lunch everday in a public garden. Most days we opened our brown bag and each had a balogna sandwich and a carrot. I am considering going back to that menu and cutting my boating costs in half.
 
Well, the initial post was Rob's only post...Rob, are you still out there?

Everyone's right - the CD22 is better than the CD25, and the CD25 is better than the CD22 - depending on who you are and what you do. And the CD16 is pretty great too. You have heard all or most of the pros and cons.

On the CR25 Tug, we have cancelled our order. We have a great boat in the CD25. I LOVE the look and feel of the CR25, but the physical facts (as in laws of physics) that people have pointed out in this thread and others about the relationship between speed, hp and economy are physical facts. The sales literature (I still have it) had us cruising at 16 knots with an 80 hp Yanmar burning 4 gph. That is pretty clearly not where this boat is headed.
 
Pat Anderson":3h7782qx said:
On the CR25 Tug, we have cancelled our order.
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ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Now where am I gonna get a used C-25 as nice as yours. I even had a special checking account dedicated to your boat at BofI.

Damn!
 
:) Thanks for all of responses. I have read each and everyone one of them many times. I have have also had a great time looking at your pictures of boats, families, pets and adventures on the website. I am amazed at the collective time and effort you have all taken to help me.

I have contacted a dealer in Washington State ( Gig Harbor) and asked him to give me a proposal for a C Dory 22. I have also contacted some people on the site that are selling used ones but subject to price I think I would rather buy a new one with a warranty and get at least the initial help and support from the dealer. I also want to pick it up in the North West and learn to use it around the San Juan Islands.

I am thinking I should order it before the Seattle Boat show because I want it first thing next spring and my guess is that they write a lot of orders at the show and I want to get mine in first. I am also trying to get to the Seattle boat show but am not sure I can yet. If I do I would love to come to a C-Brats event.

I will keep you all posted and when I get a proposal I will share it with you and my hope is that you will offer some comments and suggestions.

The first question on a new boat I can not answer is; do you want twin engines or a single with a kicker? I know the answer to the question is probably it depends on how you want to use the boat. The problem is I really don't know how I want to use the boat and how adventurous I/we will be with it.


Thank you all again.

Rob Dick
 
Rob Dick":2ltenoj0 said:
:)
The first question on a new boat I can not answer is; do you want twin engines or a single with a kicker?
Rob Dick
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Rob-You have proved once again what Ecclesiates stated long ago-"there is nothing new under the sun". The correct answer is that you want one engine and a kicker, but those twin engines sure look spiffy . Disregard any further comments and the pages of discussion found elsewhere on the site.
 
My choices (except for the cats which require two engines) is a single with a kicker. I see the twins as twice as much maintance. There is not as much maneverability advantage in the smaller outboards as there is in the larger inboards--but there is some.

Really you will be well off with either twins or the single with a kicker on the 22.

Good luck on the choice and boat! Enjoy the happy family!
 
My experience with twins has been that, yes, they look cool, but the next boat will probably not have them for the sake of simplicity and convenience.

On a larger boat they can help with docking but they can also be more of a problem with docking.

One point of view is that you have twice as much to break and definitely twice as much to fix and maintain and this can lead the the problem of twice as much to break.

For instance when an alternator goes out the question is do you replace the other alternator maybe yes maybe no. I did not change out the second alternator 5 years ago and everything is still running great. But I still face that question every time I do something on the engines, now I just buy two.

I find that a simple kicker is a multi tasking tool and can be used on the inflatable or our fishing boat. Our current boat has twins so we really don't use the trolling motor on the cruiser.

In the end I have come to the conclusion, pay your money and take your choice.

Rick
 
I kinda agree about the twins..... although once while I was in heavy sea, and alone I had an engine quit.... the fuel line had come unplugged...the other engine was running fine so I was able to go back and figure what had happened.... no time to start a trolling motor...could have been bad if I only had a single. Since then I isolated the fuel systems and installed dual Racors.... For safety I will always use two motors...

Joel
SEA3PO
 
DaveS":jjkmkdm6 said:
uncleralph123":jjkmkdm6 said:
One absolute requirement that I have is a boat WITHOUT the head under the v-berth. I am also in my late 50's and middle of the night visits to the head become more frequent with age.
Ralph
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In all honesty, what's wrong with a wide mouth peanut butter jar in the middle of the night? :wink
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Vision: What if the missus misses? We move it to the door each night and back to the berth during the day. Empty often and it's not so heavy! :wink
 
uncleralph123":3gjz3x08 said:
One absolute requirement that I have is a boat WITHOUT the head under the v-berth. I am also in my late 50's and middle of the night visits to the head become more frequent with age. Ralph
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Hey, I resemble that. Very late 60's, TURP candidate, but thankfully I saved/stole a couple of hospital plastic urinal jugs that seal from one of my early vacations. Hey, it had my name on it! Works fine and is way more convenient and less smelly than other solutions.

Seriously, urine isn't really a problem at all. Privacy might be, but I started out on subs and graduated to RV's. Privacy ain't as big a deal as most folks make it out to be. Ask Mike....
 
Joel, you hit it right on the head. If I were mostly boating near shore or protected waters, I'd go with a single and kicker, no question. But for just the reason you pointed out, that is number one why I have twins. One of the two motors has quit for various reasons, 90% due to seaweed wrapped around the water intake. Most all of these were in fairly decent water near shore, but if it happens far from shore and big seas I will be very thankful for the second motor to keep me headed into the waves and in control while we either try to understand why it quit or wait till we get into calmer waters.

Another reason is to have a comparison with each other, as Joel mentioned. Shortly after taking delivery of my new boat and after I installed my voltage monitors, I noticed one engine was hovering around 13.5 volts, the other about 14.8 volts after stabilizing for a couple of hours of charging at cruising speed. Contacted Yamaha, they sent me a new voltage regulator, took about 20 minutes to install, both read 14.8 volts, no problems since.

The twins vs singles are one of the great debates of boating, great conversation starter as Bill and El pointed out on one of our get-togethers!
 
thataway":1q8nfrsj said:
My choices (except for the cats which require two engines) is a single with a kicker. I see the twins as twice as much maintance. There is not as much maneverability advantage in the smaller outboards as there is in the larger inboards--but there is some.
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My previous 22' boat had a 130 main and a 9.9 kicker, both Hondas. Admittedly I have much less experience with the twin Yamahas on my Tom Cat, but already I find that docking maneuvers are much easier with the twins. Having lessons from a USCG certified captain who does surveys and boat deliveries for a living made a huge difference.

Also, I agree with the others who favor twins for safety, but I agree with you about the increased maintenance. TANSTAAFL (remember your Henlein?)

Warren
 
You said in the beginning that you are not fishing so go with the twins. Running back on the kicker with a broken main is doable but will take forever. With the twins you can get pack a lot faster on one main then one kicker. And if you do want to fish some day the new 4-strokes troll slow enough to fish for salmon or stripers.
 
Definately there is a difference between the way the twins handle on a cat--where they are widely spaced, than in a CD 22/25, where they are close together on the center. Thanks for clarifying--my comments about the twins were in reference to the CD 22/25, which the poster was considering.

The difference between a Tom Cat and a twin screw inboard is that the hulls of the Tom Cat, act like keels, so there is a little less effect of the twin screw torque or walking effect than in a twin screw sportfisher or motor yacht. I do find that you still have the most effect by "steering the stern" with the outboards in the Tom Cat, whereas in a Twin screw inboard, all close quarters maneuvering is with the shifters, and the rudder has minimal use. One of the major differences is to pull or push the stern the direction you want to go with the outboard, and use the opposite side to hold the boat in position. Just keeping the motors straight ahead does not turn as rapidly as a straight inboard.

The Tom Cat is very maneuverable with the twins. I usually use just one engine--the one which will give the torque effect I want, when docking.
 
Bob's right on... The TomCat is really easy to handle with it's twins so far apart... I have a 22' so my twins are close together....to dock is easy... the boat is easy to manuver, just because I like too I try to use the motors to steer....I walk sideways... is kinda hard and takes practice.... one forward and one in reverse...it works well....can get confusing .... I just do it cause it's fun...

Joel
SEA3PO
 
I've never driven a twin-screw inboard so I'll take your word for it that the effect is more pronounced than on the Tom Cat. My lessons have emphasized just using the throttles, not the helm, and for me it works well. Maybe when I have more experience I'll start adding some helm but right now I can do everything I want with the throttles. As for the twin keels, thanks for reminding me -- yes, that would tend to provide more resistance -- which for me, is good because it makes it more deliberate.

Warren
 
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