Information about Stroke

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El and Bill

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An off-the-boating topic, but one my conscience requires to post for all you friends. We knew nothing much about stroke a few months ago -- and our ignorance might have killed Bill (who had ample warning, and we ignored it from ignorance)-- so we want to share ...

Mayo recently posted information on the warning signs of stroke for men and for women (they may differ!). We think its worth a minute for all (of any age {just spent some time with a 20-year-old crippled by stroke} to read:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stroke-symptoms/BN00055
 
Excellent advice!

It should also noted that certain types of strokes include neural deficiencies that block recognition of the stroke itself. Coincidentally, the two examples I'm aware of were both women.

In the first, a neuroscience colleague of mine returned from an Alzheimer's/Cognitive Psychology conference. One of the speakers had a moderate stroke in her room at the conference. She was fully conscious, but unable to get up off the floor. However, she was not freaked out by this at all. She thought it was rather strange, and was quite sure she was having a stroke, but her detached attitude was more like, "I suppose I should try to call someone", rather than "Oh ,my god, I'm going to die." She later recounted this phenomenon to her colleagues that had been attending the meeting.

The second case involved the wife of one of my best (Irish musician) friends. We've all worked in health care; she was a geriatric nurse at a major medical school at the time. She had a stroke while at church. drove home, and told her husband, "I think I'm having a stroke". This, of course, almost precipitated a heart attack in him . . . ! He called 9-1-1, and all was (reasonably) well. She experienced muscle weakness on one side, and aphasia for several months, but returned fully functional to work, and has now since retired.

Both of these cases provide support for the F-A-S-T procedure described in Bill and El's link -- these observations are best done by a 2nd party, since the one having the stroke may not be aware of what's happening.

Take care, all.

iggy
 
My goodness, you scared me and probably hundreds of other "brats" as well with that title in a post from you! Don't do that... Say something like "how to deal with a stroke" or "didn't have a stroke" or the like! :|

Glad it wasn't another one and thanks a lot for the info. We think we know what they are but it's always good to read it in person. Should review it often.

Glad Bill is OK, we sure were worried about him.

We'll miss you at Langford this year but will have one :cocktail or two :beer for you!

Charlie
 
El and Bill -

Another comment -- I was glad to read the content of your message, but when I saw the title, my first reaction was, :? "Oh, no -- here we go again!"

The title might be changed to "Stroke Information", or "Information about strokes". OTOH, the current title might serve its purpose just as you intended. It certainly got my attention! :shock:

Ed G
 
I like the term "brain attack" much like we use the term "heart attack".

Thanks for info, stay healthy and tell a joke.
 
Sorry -- didn't mean to alarm folks with the earlier title -- so now that we have your attention, we changed the title.

OK Brent -- How about this one? Sorta about strokes ....

A blonde, a red head and a brunette were competing in the English
Channel Breast Stroke Competition.

The redhead won and the brunette came in second. However, there
was no sign of the final contestant. Hours and hours went by
causing grave concern and worry. Just as everyone was losing
hope, the blonde finally arrived.

The crowd was extremely happy and relieved to see her. They
embraced the young girl as she came ashore. After all of the
excitement died down, she leaned over to the judge and whispered,
"I hate to be a bad loser, but I think those other girls used
their arms."
 
I have instructed Dotty, that, if anything happens to me, she is to contact C-Brats first, then dial 911. She is peering over her glasses and has a strange look on her face. :roll:
 
In my own case, I had hiked down into a canyon in Oregon that a friend and I had a placer mining claim on. It is a small canyon on Taylor Creek off the Rogue River, and the walls are tight, which means you have to walk the boulders in the creek bottom itself, and it took about 3 hours to get to where I was going to film. When I got there, I sat on a flat rock to rest and felt a drop of white-hot rain hit the back of my head. I felt the back of my head with my left hand and instantly looked up to a beautiful clear blue sky and at that moment the bottom fingers on my left hand went dead.
 
Unfortunately, if you've passed the late '60's and have cardiac issues, most cardiologists tell you it's time to switch from an aspirin a day to rat poison (Warfarin/Coumadin etc.) Not something I relish, though I've been on it for about a month now without a problem.

For someone like me who eschews pharmaceuticals, the problem is risk management related. OK, what's my risk without taking anything, with an aspirin a day and with the proper dose of Coumadin?

It's tough to find a doctor who will speak in percentages. I've heard that Aspirin only improves your chances of not getting a stroke by 3% and Coumadin by 7%., but finding hard verifiable data, even with the Internet has so far escaped me. I might, for example, choose to temporarily forego Coumadin's blood thinning aspects to protect myself from the greater risk of an accident that could result in bleeding out if we go on long RV trips or boat in truly remote areas.


Don
 
I'm going to have to disagree strongly with Don's comments about Coumiden. First, the decision to place a patient on Coumiden is a very serious proposition and should be made by the patients physician. Keep rumors and possiable stats out of it.

There are two different kinds of strokes (huge generalization which I don't like)-but there are occlusive (clots) and bleeding (where a blood vessel ruptures). You can imagine the amount of damage done if a person has a stroke (also called CVA: Cereberal Vascular Accident--sort of the equivilant of a heart attack or myocardial infarction nomenclature) of the bleeding kind and is on coumiden.

Talke to your own physician if you should be on asprin, anticoagulants, other medications which may lessen the risk of either CVA's or MI's.

Incidently there are a large number of complications and deaths from poorly regulated anticoagulants. There are good indications for anti-coagulants, but again--very specfic reasons.

Finally, there are a number of studies which can asses the risks of CVA's and other vascular disease, and we all should have the appropiate studies when indicated.
 
thataway":2tjc4p5o said:
Talke to your own physician if you should be on asprin, anticoagulants, other medications which may lessen the risk of either CVA's or MI's.
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense, Bob, and I agree up to a point. It's the doctor's recommendation, but the decision is the patient's so she better make a good case to this patient Sneaks as to why, unless she's married to me.

Unfortunately in your world any medical decision has to be based on complete trust of the patient's current physician. In my world, MD does not mean Medical Diety nor does it mean "If he wears white he must be right." I do not trust the medical community as a whole, not from rumors or heresay but from personal experience through two CAB's, a MI, and, more recently, a non-comedy of errors committed this month and last by no less than three different MD's who, frankly, were more interested in performing their own office's outpatient tests than actually listening to the symptoms and doing an old fashioned clinical diagnosis. It cost me dearly in time and when my BP dropped to 68/35 in the hospital due to thoughtlessness, it became for a few hours, as you well know, critical.

AFAIC, selecting a good MD to manage one's health is even more critical than choosing a wife. Your wife has little chance of killing you even if she doesn't listen. A doctor can do that in a heartbeat (no pun intended) and many have. I think the death rate from spousal abuse/murder is far less than the death rate from iatrogenic mistakes.

As always, my caveat is it's my opinion and in no way do I suggest anyone else follow my bloody trail, but follow Bob's admonition. Find a GOOD primary health care physician and when you do, listen and ask tough questions.


Don
 
Don's experience is a good example why I believe that everyone needs a good health care advocate. Preferably this should be a person with medical knowlege and a specific interest in you. I am fortunate that Marie not only has excellent common sense, but was an outstanding RN administrator. She not only knows medicine, but how hopsitals/doctor's offices work--and how to use the system to our best advanatge.

Often we as patients are not able to make objective judgements. There are "problems" in medicine. I worked for a year as a fraud investigator for the federal government and a number of insurance companies.

The threats to our health care system come from many areas--including the demand to see more patients in less time and to actually do less expensive testing--some groups pay more to physicians who are "most effecient". Not to those who have the best patient outcome!

Insurance is a whole other threat--and the ability to have both good physicians of our choice as well as the tests which are appropiate available are key. A friend subjugated his medicare to an insurance company to save a few dollars a month. He now does not have choice of physician and cannot get the care that he needs. What happens is that Medicare pays the insurance company a fee each month to provide all of the patients medical care. The less care, the better off is the insurance company and their doctors.

When you are making medical decisions be sure that they are well informed!
 
A pediatrician, a surgeon and a managed care physician were playing their usual Wednesday round of golf, and started discussing how much of their capitated income was actually spent on patient care.
Specifically, they started to compare how they decided what portion of the collection to keep for themselves and what portion to use on their respective patients.

The pediatrician explains: "I draw a circle around myself and toss the money in the air. Whatever lands in the circle I keep for myself. What ever lands outside the circle, I use for the patients."

The surgeon then adds: "I use a similar method, except that whatever lands in the circle I use for patient care, and whatever lands outside the circle I keep for my personal needs."

The managed care executive said, "Well, I'm a religious man. When I toss the money in the air, I figure that any money God wants the patients to have, He can take."
 
El and Bill":3gq56gpz said:
who had ample warning, and we ignored it from ignorance
Click to expand...

that is the most important statement on this thread. Most men will ignore the warning signs, even if they know them. Don't ignore them, no matter how trivial they may seem. . The good news is we are living longer. Most of us will even see our grandchildren grow up. Consider it an obligation to be there for their college graduation. Train for it, exercise, quit smoking, eat healthy, get regular checkups, get the CT scan and the colonoscopy he/she orders, even if you're scared. So you have to spend a few hours and a little discomfort. Believe me, it's a lot better than exploratory surgery(except for that crap you have to drink before the colonoscopy)! Take your medicine.
 
I had a stroke at age 35. It was caused by a hole in my heart from a congenitial birth defect. I experienced all the classic symptoms listed in the article except the last two. Had openheart surgery to patch the hole and I am as good as new. I was grounded a year from flying big jets, but now back to work with no restrictions. The stroke was a wake up call for me and also was the main reason I decided to buy my C-Dory.

Scott on Lil' Rascal
 
thataway":2wtl0w9j said:
Don's experience is a good example why I believe that everyone needs a good health care advocate. Preferably this should be a person with medical knowlege and a specific interest in you.

The threats to our health care system come from many areas--including the demand to see more patients in less time and to actually do less expensive testing--some groups pay more to physicians who are "most effecient". Not to those who have the best patient outcome!

When you are making medical decisions be sure that they are well informed!
Click to expand...

We are definitely on the same page now, Bob. In no way do I point fingers at MD's in general - a couple of specific examples yes and deservedly so, but being around the medical community, dealing with medical insurance carriers and watching countless patients shrug their shoulders and pass up opportunities to get out of pain quickly because they choose to be forced to go to an in-plan physician is disheartening.

I've also learned through experience to never EVER bring two unrelated problems to an MD. Only one, usually the one he or she is most knowledgeable in or can be diagnosed within the "magic 15 minute" office visit, will be addressed and that may not be the patient's most serious issue.

AFAIC, as I alluded to in another thread (56 MILLION dollar health insurance carrier CEO salary) the problem doesn't so much lie in the individual physician, it's in the system itself. Unfortunately it isn't gonna get fixed in our lifetime, not even in our grandchildren's lifetime in spite of the current political posturing on both sides of the aisle.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think the extraordinary means used to minimize fraud and maximize shareholder profits put the burden on the folks least interested in business and most interested in practicing their art/science. Second on the list are patients who refuse to take responsibility for their own health and are making decisions based on cash flow needs not medical need.

When and how were patients "brainwashed" into turning our care over to a third party based on that silly concept? I wouldn't bring the "Jenny B" to a Bayliner dealership for anything but outboard service, nor would I go to a new grad MD to diagnose anything beyond a cold or the flu. You get what you pay for in life - and that includes health care.

You're right; get smart or get an advocate who is.

73's OM. 88's to yer advocate

Don
 
nor would I go to a new grad MD to diagnose anything beyond a cold or the flu. Don
Click to expand...

What do you call the guy who finished last in his Med School class?
Doctor!
 
I like the depth of the practices I'm currently involved with. Some younger
doctors, and some older doctors...

Mike
 
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