Increased towing capacity? 16' to 19'

W

Wood Zeppelin

New member
This will be a hard question to answer. Safety is key, and I understand not many are qualified to make engineering level safety recommendations. But I'm looking for perspectives/thoughts..

I have a rare Jeep Scrambler from the early eighties. I think of it as the C-dory of SUV's. It goes anywhere, and looks cool doing it! I restored it from the frame up, and modified it. So it's not really the original vehicle anymore. It's original towing capacity is apparently 2000#. I tow a 16' C. But I want a 19' A, (probably not a 22' Angler, but will through it in for perspective).

Towing Weights:

16' C - 2025#
19' A - 3258#
22' A - 3675#

The 19' is significantly heavier that the 16'.

(1) It would seem the most important thing is braking. I have upgraded the braking system on my Jeep to match the increased tire size. I would also get trailer brakes, which I would think would handle the braking concern (?) Any thoughts on that?

(2) Next, drivetrain: The engine has been rebuilt and had more torque. The manual transmission has been upgraded to a much stronger unit than oem. The transfer case is oem, but known to be one of the toughest. The rear axle is strong, but could be improved if needed. I plan to lower the axle gear ratios for better towing. I have heard I can monitor the temperature of the transmission to make sure it's doing ok under load. Yes, I plan to drive over mountains sometimes, but not regularly.

(3) Tongue weight. This doesn't seem to be listed on the C-dory website. I assume this can be adjusted by moving the position of boat as it sits on the trailer(?) This is a concern, I'd like to know the specs... anyone?

(4) Overall stability. The Jeep is light, with a GVW of 4000#. I believe the overall vehicle weight should be more than the trailer, but not sure how much(?) anyone? The wheelbase is 103" long, with a track width of our approx 55" (center of tires). I am concerned about overall stability. I think the trailer brakes take away much of this concern (?) Thoughts? But I'm still concerned about the weight ratio between tow vehicle and trailer. Should I be?

(5) My main thought is that I want to be safe. If the Vehicle is rated to tow 2000# and I'm already towing 2000#, I figure I'm at my limit. But I really want a 19' someday and if it's possible to safely increase my Jeep's towing capacity, I'd like to do that. After reading this, who thinks it's doable? Who thinks not?

thank you!

Any other tips on increasing tow capacity
 
I would think stability is the most important criteria. The Jeep appears narrow, short and high. I would think that a 3500 # boat would tend to drive the vehicle, especially one without brakes which need the towing vehicle to be braking, i.e., surge brakes.

The rest of the setup would be fine as long as you didn't take long trips. You can use an equalizing hitch. A manual transmission has been a downfall for me in the past (ruined the clutch); I converted it to an auto.

When you look at weights, try adding in all the cruising gear. Consider renting a trailer, loading it to the required weights and seeing how it does. cheaper than finding out later that you need to sell the jeep.

Boris
 
My thinking is, if you can afford to move up to a C 19, maybe you can also afford to get an old truck to tow it, with. Salt water can be really hard on nice classic Jeeps.

I would think that your short wheel base and light weight would not be a good thing if you had to tow the C 19 on the freeway.

C 19er's can be hard to find. If you can get a deal on one, get it. The best solution for towing might be to find a fishing buddy who has a truck. Let him tow your boat and let his truck get rusty.

When you go boat shopping remember, your not just buying a boat. Your also buying a motor, a trailer, and electronics. Check everything out good, or it may cost you.
 
Agree with the above. I'm sure you've done the same google search and have read the plethora of comments about towing anything more than the rated 2000lbs with a Jeep - a lot of concern w/ short wheel base of the Jeep and the length /weight of a 19-20' boat, even with trailer brakes.

That said, when I was much younger (didn't know better) my 1989 2-door S10 Blazer 4x4 routinely towed a 4000 lb 19' deep V boat with no trailer brakes, and with shorter WB than your Scrambler. In retrospect yeah, there was definitely some swaying action on the freeway, but for launching and driving a few miles locally it worked just fine. It was rated for 5000 lbs though.

Like Boris said - rent or borrow something comparable and give it a go. Or if needed get a cheap tow vehicle to go along with the 19 - a lot of vehicles are rated for that weight. Sometimes we do crazy things to get the boats of our dreams. Some of us even have multiple boats ;)

-Mike
 
IIRC U-Haul won't rent trailers to CJs, YJs or TJs. The Scrambler's longer wheelbase helps a small amount but I don't believe you should tow the bigger boat.
Your narrow axles, height and light weight are working against you here.
 
You might also want to check your weights. The all up weight of my 22 cruiser on my AL trailer is 4400#. I don't know about the 16 and 19, but the 22A is probably not that much less.
 
Many states require brakes on the trailer if more than 3000#. Your estimated tow weights on the 19 and 22 are too low.

Another factor is wind profile. If you get cross winds, or even quartering winds, the higher wind profile would have a tendency to move the fairly light short wheel base jeep around. This would be accentuated with a 2 wheel trailer.

For very short distances, you would be fine. But agree with others, that on the highway at 55 mph, the short wheel base, and light weight will be a major issue. It maybe fine for easy normal towing.

But in a crisis is when it hits the fan! That is the reason I have electric over hydraulic brakes on the 25--and even put them on my last 22. I had an incident when a car stopped abruptly and for no apparent reason in front of me. I try and maintain a safe distance. Despite full braking, it was obvious I was not gong to stop in time, so I moved over to the next lane, hoping that the car which was several hundred feet back and coming up fairly slowly-would see the situation...He did, and I got over with inches to spare--the next week I ordered new disc brakes and the E/H for the 22...

Yes the tongue weight is adjustable by moving the boat--but too little tongue weight can be a real issue in handling and trailer stability also.
 
I kind of think I would want a bigger (heavier) tow vehicle and trailer brakes.

My trailer weight for the 22 Cruiser is 4900 pounds, loaded for cruising -- full fuel (in the stern) and water, and tongue weight is 475 pounds. Tandem axle, galvanized Pacific bunk trailer. Towing with a Tundra, (2001 and now 2007).

IF you have a tandem axle trailer, it will decrease the wiggle waggle, if it has brakes the will help, but I think ti would be on the verge of being scary at highway speed towing, and IF there is a rapidly changing situating (Emergency or not), you would be hoping that would be on a straight, dry, clear road. Anything else and you are probably not going to come out of that without needing a change of clothes at best :disgust

Tongue weight should be between 5 to 10 percent of your trailer weight. I prefer 7-10% for more stable control. Lighter increases the wander factor, as does a single axle tow.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
I worked hard to balance and minimize our towing weight by tuning our trailer components with a hitch scale and changing boat position, but it was hard to get the hitch weight under 300lbs while preserving higher speed stabilty and control in various conditions. I did push it and went too light so I know where that scary line was for our 19 on a galvanized single axle trailer with brakes. We are 4200 to 4300lbs total depeding on the trip length including full fluids. I currently run 4 trailers for our toys and over the years have pulled many heavier and lighter loads with a variety of vehicles. Passing the 3000lb mark generally changes the game in my experience, and I change my whole approach past that point. I know the vehicle you have as a friend had one for a while, and I would only consider your proposed load for a local move from house to ramp at lower speeds and then only if the trip was an easy route. For any travel beyond your town, go bigger/newer.

We are using a 2017 hyundai sante fe 7 passeger model rated for 5k and it does well but I never forget the 19 is back there. Lots of windage and weight. Our ATV load on a flatbed at 3200lbs behind the same vehicle is forgettable most of the time and a much less serious load.

Greg
 
Thanks everyone, such great info here. I'm going to stick with my 16' until I have the right tow vehicle. But sometimes I feel like I can't wait to find a 19 or 22A. Especially when more than one other buddy wants to out on the water / fishing!
 
People say surge brakes aren't very good? What about putting them on a 16'? (which is at the max of my tow capacity)

Is it worth the extra cost/time to go to E/H?
 
Surge brakes are fine. Thousands of boat and utility trailers have them. The E/H are an upgrade for bigger weights.

Different states have different trailer brake requirements. Some require brakes at 1500#, other at 3000#, some just stopping distances. Some Canadian require that the brakes can be controlled in the truck cab.

My caracal trailer does not have brakes, but it was usually towed behind a 42'RV with air brakes. I would tow it now behind a 3/4 ton pickup. Wt is just under 3000#.

Just putting brakes on a trailer will not make it necessarily safer to tow if the tow vehicle is not suitable.
 
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