Hydraulic Steering Selection Advice Please: CD 22 w/90 Honda

I'd be interested to hear folks opinions on the costs/benefits of switching from mechanical to hydraulic steering on a 22" cruiser. As well as adding autopilot. Is the a/p mostly useful for fishing (trolling) or do people use it for navigation as well? Seems like a major outlay of funds to acquire the electronics for a/p.

jd
 
nimrod":3jgrlf4w said:
Is the a/p mostly useful for fishing (trolling) or do people use it for navigation as well? Seems like a major outlay of funds to acquire the electronics for a/p. jd
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Hi J. D.,
Since I don't fish, I'll only address the usage of the auto pilot while cruising. There has probably never been a time that I've been out cruising that I have not used the auto pilot. Primarily, I "point and shoot" with it. Meaning I steer the vessel on a heading and activate the AP. This allows me to run a straight line from point A to point B and concentrate on watching for other vessels, logs in the water etc. If I'm cruising a long distance, I may run my target X out on my chart plotter and then activate the AP to "go to" that target. By running the straight line I'm certain that I am saving a bit of fuel on the cruise. If caught in the fog, there is no danger of "running around in circles" as the vessel maintains a predetermined course and again I can really concentrate on being a "look out" for other vessels, logs, etc. As Les at EQ told me when he outfitted Sea Shift.....an auto pilot is like having a good helmsman on board.
I would guess that there will be other C-Brats that think otherwise and don't feel as strongly about the auto pilot as I, but I do know that if I were to ever purchase another vessel it definitely would have the auto pilot.

(J.D. Nice day we're having here, we should be on the water!)
 
nimrod":2hmj2ihp said:
I'd be interested to hear folks opinions on the costs/benefits of switching from mechanical to hydraulic steering on a 22" cruiser. As well as adding autopilot. Is the a/p mostly useful for fishing (trolling) or do people use it for navigation as well? Seems like a major outlay of funds to acquire the electronics for a/p.
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The cost is pretty clear - about $500 for the Baystar and a few hours (I think it took me 4 hours total on an Arima I did a couple of years ago).

IMHO, the benefits are you can easily add a 2nd steering station, easily add a wireless autopilot (and you can do both if you add a HH5501 fitting kit), periodic maintenance of a hydraulic system is much less, and steering requires less effort, is balanced turning left and right, and provides greater precision (though with decreased feedback).

Ultimate reliability is probably a toss-up, but that's just a guess on my part and both systems are considered "reliable".

Autopilot usage when cruising varies mostly by personal preference - I would not use it when moving at greater than displacement speed. I'm not much of a fisherman, but I'd say it's pretty much a requirement for short-handed trolling.
 
On a long transit, even at 20+knots, the ability not to have to keep your hands on the helm make the autopilot indispensable to me. With little traffic (usually no traffic where we are), I can walk around even. Very relaxing.

Besides, having the wireless AP leads to endless jokes with newbies about "voice steering" if you keep the control in your pocket...

Charlie
 
I am going to finally get off my behonkus and replace our Teleflex steering with a SeaStar system.

I know that I will need a Helm, appropriate length hose, and the ram cylinder (front mount due to kicker). Is there anything else that you gurus can think of?

I am told that there is a kit that allows the helm to attach from the back to give a little more room in the captain's seat. Did any of you do that?

Does this impact the ability to mount the kicker (Honda 8) directly on the transom? I am planning on just using a steering rod from the Honda 90 to steer the kicker.

Thanks in advance!

Steve
 
I am going to finally get off my behonkus and replace our Teleflex steering with a SeaStar system.

I know that I will need a Helm, appropriate length hose, and the ram cylinder (front mount due to kicker). Is there anything else that you gurus can think of?

I am told that there is a kit that allows the helm to attach from the back to give a little more room in the captain's seat. Did any of you do that?

Does this impact the ability to mount the kicker (Honda 8) directly on the transom? I am planning on just using a steering rod from the Honda 90 to steer the kicker.

Thanks in advance!

Steve
 
Wandering Sagebrush":1omfuo1y said:
I am going to finally get off my behonkus and replace our Teleflex steering with a SeaStar system.

I know that I will need a Helm, appropriate length hose, and the ram cylinder (front mount due to kicker). Is there anything else that you gurus can think of?

I am told that there is a kit that allows the helm to attach from the back to give a little more room in the captain's seat. Did any of you do that?

Does this impact the ability to mount the kicker (Honda 8) directly on the transom? I am planning on just using a steering rod from the Honda 90 to steer the kicker.

Thanks in advance!

Steve
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Hi Steve,

There's no reason to use the Teleflex SeaStar system, the Teleflex BayStar system is totally appropriate for the C-Dory 22 and it's about 1/2 the price. It comes as a complete DIY kit.

There is a back mount kit for the BayStar part# HA-5476. There's a photo from a friend building a boat here.

Using the BayStar unit does not interfere with adding a Honda BF8 kicker.

Les
 
WineAdvisor - Have had both the Sea Star and Bay Star on two 22' C-Dorys. The Sea Star is more robust, but the Bay Star handles a Mercury 115 EFI very nicely, and as you already know, it is less expensive.

Regarding the add in comment about mechanical versus hydraulic steering, I have had the pleasure of using both systems including the mechanical system which froze up after extended use on salt water, but the hydraulic systems, IMO, are more reliable.

As you quickly learned, asking for free advise is an art form on this web site.
John
 
I have had poor luck with the BayStar at home and at work. I purchased 2 of the systems 4 years ago and installed one on a friends boat and one on my RIB. The seal at the helm on both systems failed within 2 years. Likewise I purchased one for a boat at work and replaced it due to the seals at the rams failing within 2 years.
I have now switched all future purchases to the Uflex systems, as they are much more durable than the BayStar and SeaStar systems.
 
Thanks all for your feedback. Even though the Baystar is less expensive by about half, I am going with SeaStar. Over the years on CBrats, I have seen more positive comments on the SeaStar system versus BayStar.

It is now on order, and I hope to have it shortly.
 
Sorry to hear you've had so much trouble with the BayStar units Steve. That hasn't been my experience having been installing them since their inception (that's a lot of boats!) but there are a lot of variables in boating.

Still, the seals are a lot less expensive than the difference between the cost of the BayStar versus SeaStar.

I tried Uflex controllers early on and I thought they were very poorly manufacturer so that put me off the brand. Perhaps their quality has become much better since they first started importing.

Les
 
Wandering Sagebrush":2g87fcre said:
Thanks all for your feedback. Even though the Baystar is less expensive by about half, I am going with SeaStar. Over the years on CBrats, I have seen more positive comments on the SeaStar system versus BayStar.

It is now on order, and I hope to have it shortly.
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If you're going to put an autopilot in the system now would be the time to figure out where it will be installed and order the hoses to accommodate it since the SeaStar hoses can not be cut.

For later installation of an autopilot you'll want two hoses from the helm to the location where the autopilot steering pump will eventually be located, two couplers, then two hoses from the future location of the autopilot pump to the engine steering cylinder.

Later you'd remove the two couplers and a add Tees for the connections to the autopilot steering pump.

Les
 
Les, thanks for the info on autopilots. At this time, I don't think I will put one in. It could be a mistake on my part by not planning to at least ready the boat for an A/P, but having never had/used one, I am not sure I want one. It's much more fun to find the rocks without having a mechanical device to blame... :lol:
 
Wandering Sagebrush":2aflijg7 said:
Les, thanks for the info on autopilots. At this time, I don't think I will put one in. It could be a mistake on my part by not planning to at least ready the boat for an A/P, but having never had/used one, I am not sure I want one. It's much more fun to find the rocks without having a mechanical device to blame... :lol:
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I understand, just thought I'd let you know ahead of time if you were thinking about it. :)
 
I thought i had it pretty much figured out what type of hydraulic steering system i needed before i bought the S-1000 auto pilot....but after reading these posts i am back to square one .Tug
 
Tug":2carmz39 said:
I thought i had it pretty much figured out what type of hydraulic steering system i needed before i bought the S-1000 auto pilot....but after reading these posts i am back to square one .Tug
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I was thinking about this upgrade (hydraulic steering and new autopilot) if I couldn't get my Sportpilot repaired (looks like it may be okay now though). I had pretty much settled on Baystar steering and a Raymarine S1000. I could see that other autopilots might be better, but at a significant additional cost. The Baystar sounded like it would work well with the S1000/on a 22... just curious what's making you re-think the choice? (Maybe some people's seal leaks on the Baystars?)
 
My 1st thought from reading earlier posts was that the Baystar hydraulic steering would not be the best choice if your were going to add an auto pilot...( S1000 )..than reading these posts it would be a good choice....than the issue of leaking seals arose and now i am unsure again. An auto pilot would make my life alot easier seeing that i mostly fish alone and setting the riggers can be fustrating if there is a good wind blowing. Tug
 
I had posted a note earlier about Baystar reliability and I still stand by my comments. Today I changed out a friends Baystar that I had installed for him just 4 years ago. Leaks, leaks and more leaks and on top of that the helm pump rotated and chattered like a 20 year old system.
 
I will probably get the BayStar hydraulic Kit mostly because of the price, i assume there are kits with different lenghts of hydraulic hose. Does anyone know what lenght hoses are required for an 1985 22' Angler and would i need to replace my old steering wheel with a newer one for when i add an ..( S1000 )..auto pilot.Tug
 
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