How much chain can a CD 25 carry comfortably

Alexander":2cxqkzib said:
Frankenstein was the result of a boat project gone bad.
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I'll try to add some intelligent comment when, and if, I ever get over laughing at your poignant reminder! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Should be a well understood corollary of the KISS Principle! :wink

Joe. :teeth :thup

For those who have forgotten the details of the Frankenstein story:

Frankenstein
 
Very good info Sunbeam I appreciate the insight. I do like the horizontal except for the extra $200. It feeds well and takes up no space down below and looks great sitting there. It may well be the winner here. The only saving grace of the 550 other than price is the electrical set up requirements are identical to the one that's there now and I think it uses the same holes. Fortunately the installer of my present one used #8 ga wire from the batts to the 25 amp fuse and to the up/down switch instead of the #10ga as specified in instructions.That should be ok for the 700 series but with the upgraded fuse and switch that's included. This could have been a factory installation before the windlass model was chosen.
 
Alexander":3seoqgwf said:
Fortunately the installer of my present one used #8 ga wire from the batts to the 25 amp fuse and to the up/down switch instead of the #10ga as specified in instructions.That should be ok for the 700 series but with the upgraded fuse and switch that's included. This could have been a factory installation before the windlass model was chosen.
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It might slightly depend on the run. On my 22 I just barely made it into the #6 category, and #8 would have been too small for sure. Reason I say that is that for the 700 horizontal their chart shows you can have up to a 50' round trip run for #6 cable (#8 only gives you a 23' round trip run). I think I figured it out (IIRC) that their max would be close to 10% voltage drop. Also IIRC, I'm at around 45' round trip on my 22, from the windlass to the contactor and then on to the the battery in the lazarette at starboard stern. But the 700 takes a 50 amp fuse to the 550's 25 amp fuse. Also, maybe your batteries are further forward on the 25. Otherwise you might want to double check. Although now that I say that, there is something odd in the chart....

They show the "Pro Sport" (is that the 550?) and as expected, it must draw slightly less as the breaker is smaller (25A to the 700's 50A and 1000's 70A), but yet they show the Pro Sport as needing larger cable than the 700...? Something looks wrong there to me. I'll post the chart here in a moment.

I do know that many folks with 22's who have the 700 horizontal have wired with #6 cable, and when I calculated it on my own with a voltage drop calculator, I also came up with #6 for the 700 on my 22 with the ~45' run.

But maybe the 25 is set up so you would have a shorter run, or maybe if the chart is wrong, #8 would work for the 550. It would make sense given the 25 amp breaker vs. the 50 amp one.

Okay, here is the chart from the manual for the 700/1000/Pro Sport (is that the 550? It does have the gipsy on port side). There seems to be something odd going on with the wire gauge sizing for the 550, unless I'm just reading it wrong. It doesn't seem to track with the apparent lower draw suggested by the much smaller fuse (?). Or am I just suffering heat stroke?

wire_size_vs_amp_draw_for_round_trip_length.jpg
 
I installed a Lewmar vertical 700 this past spring and am only sorry I waited 9 years to do it! Here in Maine we frequently anchor off gravely beaches to search for sea glass and this makes it sooo much less work to do. I set the bow anchor and back into shore, take a line from the stern and with the remote pull the boat off the shore or let it in depending what the tide (12ft) is doing. Absolutely no problems with the rode (250ft Brait, 50ft chain) falling into the locker nor with it fitting in the locker. It seems just as the Brait might stop falling properly the chain comes next and obviously drops fine and pushes the Brait down. Works great single handling. The Lewmar has a "dog" that can be set to engage the gypsy to stop unwanted launching while under way or towing.

The remote would likely work with any system that uses a so-called "contactor" solenoid to activate the windlass. Think of it like a garage door remote that signals the main relay in the opener to close. My remote works up to 30ft from the boat, so when its time to leave I can let out some rode, pull the stern close enough to step aboard on the swim step.

Since this is my first season with the windlass, I can't speak to the issue of leakage through the shaft seal on a horizontal vs vertical
but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. The remote comes with a lanyard so you can wear it around your neck to keep it out of the water and/or not loose it ashore.

Considering our style of cruising, I should have made this one of my first projects after purchasing Widget.
 
Alexander,

Journey On came with a Lewmar 600 vertical. After 5 years of anchoring, it quit on a trip to the San Juans and I replaced it with the newer model, a Lewmar 700.

When we got home, I took the 600 apart to see if I could rebuild it. This post shows what I found: [urlhttp://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=17583]Lewmar 700 gospel[/url]. Basically, all the crud from the anchor rode washed down into the gearbox and motor and ground everything up. I understand that the 700 has an improved seal and I can only pray. My conclusion is that a horizontal winch is the only way to go. We had one (a Maxwell) on our sailboat, cruised for a decade and had no problems. That extra $200 is insurance that the windlass lasts. I beleive the new C-Dorys are coming with a horizontal windlass.

Leewmar_winch_1.jpg

Also, I found that the capstan from the 600 and 700 are interchangeable. As a matter of fact, I'm using the old 600 capstan now since it works better. You might check to see if a 700 capstan will fit your present winch.

Boris
 
Well the compromises are piling up. I forgot that the wire run measurement counted both ways and doubled 23 to 46 which means all new wiring in order to accommodate either of the 700 series. That's another $150 and a project. For now I'm inclined to want a horizontal model so for now I'm comparing costs , reliability and project size between the 700 horizontal and the 550. Project wise it's a no brainer, the 550 is a drop in replacement. I have to do some more homework on it to see if any CBrats have experience with them and talk to Lewmar again. They were very nice to deal with and honest about their product's good and bad points. The present model Horizon 400 is 10 yrs old and still runs fine and it is the real low end of their product line. It does the job well so maybe if I can convince myself that the 550 is at least as good it might be ok.
This whole project started because the previous owner used 5/8 nylon instead of 1/2 for the rope section of the rode and the splice doesn't go thru the windlass now that it is old and stiff (like me). I was just going to replace the rope.
The project costs are now more of a factor. The 700 is going to cost me approx $1000 for windlass and cabling and a few days work plugging holes and redrilling and mounting. . The 550 is going cost $520 and doesn't need wiring mods and fits the holes I have. Hmmmm.
Thank you all, I will report on my homework.
 
FWIW, our heavy 26-footer has a Simpson-Lawrence (it was SL before Lewmar bought SL) 600GD horizontal windlass. The GD model has a drum as well as a gypsy. If the 550 is similar to the 600, I imagine it would be a good choice.

Our 600 has done many hundreds of anchorings (and pulled a bunch of shrimp pots) over 15 years, and is still fine. I've cleaned and lubed the gypsy and clutch annually, replaced the plastic fleming and finger parts a couple of times each, and opened up cleaned and re-lubed the gears once, just last spring.
 
Alexander":14br8cw5 said:
This whole project started because the previous owner used 5/8 nylon instead of 1/2 for the rope section of the rode
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Isn't that the way? :cry

I can see some really good reasons for the 550, given your situation (and if the wiring you have is up to the task). Especially if it has improvements such as a metal gipsy over your current one. On the other hand of course if it's not going to be good enough then it's just the "good money after bad" thing. Sounds like you have some good contacts at Lewmar - I found the same thing when I called with questions prior to ordering my 700 - so maybe they will give you some additional information that will help decide it.

One thing that drives me nuts with calculating DC wiring is the charts or guides that are "fuzzy" on whether or not they have already taken the "up and back" into account. I mean, I know you have to count both ways, but some charts/calculators "do that for you." In fact, I think that's why I ended up running the Lewmar guide specs through a voltage drop calculator - their wording wasn't totally clear to me on whether or not they were doubling your one way distance for you or expecting you to use the round trip number. They said it like this:

The cable table gives recommended cable sizes based on total length of cable required, from the battery, following the route of the cables.

So were they "halving it for you" or not? I couldn't tell for sure! It was almost worded to sound like one-way, to me. As it turned out they were not -- I ran the specs through a voltage drop calculator for the 10% maximum they specify, and it is round trip they show on the chart; but it could have been a bit more clear if they had said "from the battery and back" or "round trip" or something, I think. Not that I didn't already know it really IS round trip that matters, but as I said some calculators/charts already take that into account "for" you.

It's been interesting reading about the various twists and turns in the windlass choice. This is the sort of thread I like to find if I'm searching the archives looking for info an a given subject :thup
 
Well I just pulled the trigger (can we still talk like that?) I talked to Lewmar again and determined that the gypsy on the 550 is chrome plated bronze. No more plastic wear parts except the stripper finger which is no big deal. It does use the same wiring. It uses the same holes in the deck except for one. It's a newly updated model and is private label made for several companies including West Marine, meaning it is not about to be discontinued or made obsolete anytime soon. I found one for $472.00 at Hodges Marine. Also ordered a new custom made Florida rode with 50 ft of G4 and 50 ft of nice 1/2 super anchor rope including splice for $220 from local Chapman Marine Supply. I will be selling my working horizon 400 on craigslist. (I also found out that there are some horizon parts available from a dealer in Florida, call Lewmar 203-458-6200 to get the name and number)
 
Sounds like a good solution given your many factors. I would still probably want more rope (just because... and it's not a big problem stowing it and not much extra weight so I don't see a penalty), but otherwise I could easily have decided the same in your place (not that you need my blessing of course!). I just mean it in the way of boaters sitting around noodling over a gear topic.

I wonder, if you wanted to, if one of the metal strippers from another Lewmar model could be fitted instead (once you have the windlass)? Although like you said, not a huge big deal either way. Having it fit your deck and the existing wiring is nice.
 
I was at TrawlerFest last week end and saw the Eco Trawler 33. One thing about it was that it had a winch and drum that sat on the deck. The thing turned a reel that rolled up the anchor rode. The rode was stored on the reel and this was all external (no wet rode coming into the cabin/hull/locker).

On a CD22 or 25 this drum should fit on the bow. I don't know what it is called, who makes it, or what it costs. It might be a reasonable alternative to the Lewmar windlass.

If you can find a picture of the red Eco Trawler you can see the winch (the blue one does not have it). There are only two of the Eco Trawlers so far. On the red boat they turned the anchor rode locker into a hanging clothes closet.
 
This is the ground tackle I have on my CD25 and all the chain and rode fits nicely in the anchor locker area:

1. 24.5 lb Bruce Anchor
2. 125ft 1/4" G-4 chain
3. 300ft Rode 1/2" 3 strand line New England Rope

Hope this helps:)
 
ssobol":1vqdbo2x said:
I was at TrawlerFest last week end and saw the Eco Trawler 33. One thing about it was that it had a winch and drum that sat on the deck. The thing turned a reel that rolled up the anchor rode. The rode was stored on the reel and this was all external (no wet rode coming into the cabin/hull/locker).

On a CD22 or 25 this drum should fit on the bow. I don't know what it is called, who makes it, or what it costs. It might be a reasonable alternative to the Lewmar windlass.

If you can find a picture of the red Eco Trawler you can see the winch (the blue one does not have it). There are only two of the Eco Trawlers so far. On the red boat they turned the anchor rode locker into a hanging clothes closet.
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Lots of the commercial urchin boats down here have the drums. definitely keeps the mess on deck.

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/attachments/cruiser-a-jpg.199632/
 
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