How install flush mounted threads into the cockpit sole

R

rogerbum

New member
All,

This winter I'm planning on adding a bait tank to the center of the cockpit. I wouldn't use it very often - most late season for tuna. So, I'd like to be able to easily pull it out when not needed. Hence, I'd like to install some threads into the cockpit sole that wind up flush with the sole. E.g. I'd have 90 degree brackets attached to the sides of the tank with slots in them on the part that is parallel to the sole. I'd then like to install bolts into the threads in the floor. Since the tank will like weigh around 240-280lbs when full AND I will often be in reasonable size waves, the mounting points need to be solid. What's the best way to go about this?
 
Roger,

Consider threaded inserts installed into a plug of filled epoxy (you know the drill on that) using hardware probably 5/16 or better. The knock on these is that they will sometimes come out when you unscrew the mating bolt, so I would seek the nitronic variety, per McMaster Carr. They are good on mail order. Look here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threa ... ts/=trm7sr

I looked for inserts themselves made of filled nylon or equivalent, but could not find any.

Since you will be setting filled plugs of resin anyway, you could always bury a hex nut in it, before the resin kicks off, waxed bolt in the nut, set flush, but the thread contact would not be as long as an insert provides.
 
Another option you may consider is glassing in fiberglass angle that would accomodate a similarily sized cooler for the other times of year your not Tuna fishing. I understand it won't be flush with the sole, but would certainly give you the strength required to hold that heavy tank down and from sliding around.
I will be interested to see what option and method you employ.
Grazer
 
Having female threads sitting flush in a cockpit sounds problematic to me. Keeping them clean and protecting the threads would be tough given their location, and even though they would be stainless - they would hold water when empty, and eventual corrosion would be my concern. Replacing something epoxied into the deck like this would not be my idea of fun...

Have you considered the low tech approach? High quality non-skid pads hold like nobody's business (something like THIS), and I'll bet a heavy tank of water sitting on this stuff would be near impossible to slide around. Easy and cheap to try.
 
I can't speak to whether it would hold your load, but I have used "plugs" of thickened/structural epoxy that I then tapped. In other words, I wallow out core for a good 1/2" or so all the way around a small hole in the fiberglass skin, fill that with thickened epoxy (structural filler/colloidal silica filler), and then tap that plug for a machine screw. I like to use a bronze fastener when it is going to be "buried" away from oxygen (stainless can crevice corrode).

All that said, I haven't used it for something that is going to withstand a huge force. You might give the tech folks at WEST System a call and run it by them - they are always interested/interesting to talk to regarding "different" uses of epoxy.

I do hear DaNag in that if the holes are going to be "empty" sometimes, then they may collect crud (of course you could tap and chamfer for a tapered head screw, and then put it back into the hole vs. leaving it empty maybe?).

As I said, I have used this (with variations) for quite a few things, from storm shutters to tranducer blocks, but none of them are hugely heavy in a "twist and jerk" sort of forceful way.
 
Let me join in with the "all over the map" ideas! (no offense to anyone)

How about some recessed pad eyes that you can use to tie it down to (and maybe a cooler, too)?

accontiedown.jpg

http://www.fisheriessupply.com/accon-flush-mounted-tie-down

Or here is one with removable threads that may make the "embedded" process easier/stronger:

59062.jpg
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/schaefer-marine-removable-eye-deck-plate

Just another thought......
 
Da Nag's reservations about recessed female threads are the major weakness of what I suggested. Recessed tie downs, with the fixture set flush, would be superior, I think, inasmuch as the recess is easy to keep clear and clean out. The ones pictured could be set in a recess so their tops are flush, with a little resin work.

If you go with flush female threads, Roger, a slug of SS threaded rod, with never seize on it, in the hole might allay the problem. A hex or big slot in the top of the slug should make removal pretty simple.
 
Roger,

At least do a web search and consider the transom mounted "Bait Bag". I have had good luck with ours. It will hold a full scoop of Sardines and keep them alive all day. I don't know how much bait you need for Albacore fishing, or what size the bait is. The bait bag is behind the transom and keeps the cockpit free for the crew. You could actually mount two bait bags on the TomCat. One in front of each motor. I put a picture of it on the Westport Coho thread. They fold up to be about 4" thick. I keep ours under the berth on the raised portion of the tunnel. It's on the boat all the time, and weights only a couple of pounds empty.
 
Ray,

Driving along I was thinking about this and that second one you pictured came to mind. That might be nice if one preferred a "fixture" to just tapped epoxy holes.
 
What size tank?


For my purpose, I was thinking about buying a new 30 gal tank from US Plastics, adding a hatch to the top, plumbing and a drain valve on the bottom and was not planning to secure it to the deck
 
BrentB":1aooh356 said:
What size tank?


For my purpose, I was thinking about buying a new 30 gal tank from US Plastics, adding a hatch to the top, plumbing and a drain valve on the bottom and was not planning to secure it to the deck
Click to expand...

BrentB - I was thinking of a similar size tank.

Bill - while a non-skid pad would keep it from sliding, I'm more worried about it tipping over on the trip out or back. While trolling there really isn't any issue but sometimes I beat things up pretty good getting out or home, especially at a bar crossing. I definitely don't want a 200# shift at the wrong moment. I too am concerned about the recessed threads and was thinking of using a nylon insert similar to that shown in Ray's post to limit that. I'm thinking that such an arrangement (perhaps with pipe tape), would prevent water from entering and sitting inside.

Discovery Brent - I was thinking about one of those bait bags and may come back around to that. A few things that go against a bait bag solution is that it is on the transom and A) I don't want additional weight that far back. With full fuel tanks and some ice on board, and my slurry cooler on the aft seat area, the scuppers are already half below the water. I'm thinking a tank farther forward would be better. I'm already keeping a cooler or two in the cockpit aisle to keep weight forward. B) I've read that the transom is the worst location for a bait tank from the perspective of allowing all fishermen on board (3-4) easy access to the tank. The bait fishers for albacore often have 2-4 fish "hanging" while reeling in others. The outside edges of the cockpit are premium "real estate" at those times. However, you obviously make this work for you. Have you found access to be a problem? C) I also have my bleed bucket on the starboard corner of the bracket so I'd have to move that around to put in a transom mounted bait bag on that side.

The pluses are the relatively small size and the ease of stowage. Given that tuna fishing is not that frequent a thing for me, those pluses are nice. I'd be interested in seeing how you plumbed the water pickup. For albacore fishing, we'd get one or two 10# scoops - probably one. The available bait is anchovies and they are usually around 3" long. Live bait in Westport is ridiculously expensive - $50/scoop so you want to treat it very well.
 
I am around 15 and 30 gal plastic (some metal) tanks at work but cant be reused for bait tanks. I use them for waste oil containers and cut off the tops for inexpensive trash cans.
To make a bait tank, I cant find a local company to purchase a new tank and shipping on a 30 gal tank is $45
!!!



Would a 15 gal tank work for you?
 
rogerbum":3cxb8e06 said:
BrentB":3cxb8e06 said:
What size tank?


For my purpose, I was thinking about buying a new 30 gal tank from US Plastics, adding a hatch to the top, plumbing and a drain valve on the bottom and was not planning to secure it to the deck
Click to expand...

BrentB - I was thinking of a similar size tank.

Bill - while a non-skid pad would keep it from sliding, I'm more worried about it tipping over on the trip out or back. While trolling there really isn't any issue but sometimes I beat things up pretty good getting out or home, especially at a bar crossing. I definitely don't want a 200# shift at the wrong moment. I too am concerned about the recessed threads and was thinking of using a nylon insert similar to that shown in Ray's post to limit that. I'm thinking that such an arrangement (perhaps with pipe tape), would prevent water from entering and sitting inside.

Discovery Brent - I was thinking about one of those bait bags and may come back around to that. A few things that go against a bait bag solution is that it is on the transom and A) I don't want additional weight that far back. With full fuel tanks and some ice on board, and my slurry cooler on the aft seat area, the scuppers are already half below the water. I'm thinking a tank farther forward would be better. I'm already keeping a cooler or two in the cockpit aisle to keep weight forward. B) I've read that the transom is the worst location for a bait tank from the perspective of allowing all fishermen on board (3-4) easy access to the tank. The bait fishers for albacore often have 2-4 fish "hanging" while reeling in others. The outside edges of the cockpit are premium "real estate" at those times. However, you obviously make this work for you. Have you found access to be a problem? C) I also have my bleed bucket on the starboard corner of the bracket so I'd have to move that around to put in a transom mounted bait bag on that side.

The pluses are the relatively small size and the ease of stowage. Given that tuna fishing is not that frequent a thing for me, those pluses are nice. I'd be interested in seeing how you plumbed the water pickup. For albacore fishing, we'd get one or two 10# scoops - probably one. The available bait is anchovies and they are usually around 3" long. Live bait in Westport is ridiculously expensive - $50/scoop so you want to treat it very well.
Click to expand...

Roger our 255 has the livewell built in under the cockpit aft seat. Have you considered that factory option?
 
rogerbum":1ccmqb7h said:
redbaronace":1ccmqb7h said:
Roger our 255 has the livewell built in under the cockpit aft seat. Have you considered that factory option?
Click to expand...
My boat came with two very large batteries occupying that space.
Click to expand...

In our Tomcat 255 the livewell is well built. It cycles on and off pumping water and keeping the contents alive. We kept 20 crabs alive while in the San Juans this summer. I would imagine it would do well for keeping bait alive for fishing as well.

Not sure if that would appeal to you or not, but for what its worth, we like it and am glad the original owner ordered it as an option. I wonder if the factory would retrofit one for you.
 
As Roger Bumgarner knows, when cows swim, I'll be a fisherperson! No offense to fishermen/women in the crowd! :mrgreen:

Roger has more fun with projects than almost anyone I know... :wink:

On my second Keurig coffee after a long post in the Nerd Shack!

Why do those VESPA scooter ads keep coming up, JIM and PAT?

:roll:
 
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