Horsepower

[snhstahl@gmail.com]

We recently bought a 2005 cruiser with a big heavy, loud, 2005 honda 90. Carburetors. I'm not saying I know it all, but I am a retired CG CPO and retired CG (civ) boatbuilder. When it comes to hp requirements on these boats, it looks like you need Doelfins, Permatrims, etc. AND trim tabs because you have 100 lbs more dead weight hanging off the transom than the designers said you need. The factory boot stripe on our boat is way down in the stern. No surprise. I think the designers striped it to be level with the appropriate engine. Of course, this is America. If the boat will do just fine with 70hp, 135 sounds just about right. Also ran a division for a yacht manufacturer, and started working on boats when Silverton Yachts was Silverton Skiffs. They were made of mahogany over oak. I'm still learning.

 

[daninPA]

Yeah, but it is kinda nice to go fast whenever it's an option.

8)

 

[T.R. Bauer]

I assume you have a CD 22 and it goes just fine with the 90 hp honda. The boats handle that weight, and much more, without issue. Obviously trim tabs help. If you think the honda 90 is heavy and loud, then you're really going to be unimpressed with the honda 135....I wouldn't put that motor on the back of anything - so many better choices. I would say for the vast majority of users, the 90 or 115 hp outboards are a great match for the boat.

 

[tsturm]

We recently bought a 2005 cruiser with a big heavy, loud, 2005 honda 90. Carburetors. I'm not saying I know it all, but I am a retired CG CPO and retired CG (civ) boatbuilder. When it comes to hp requirements on these boats, it looks like you need Doelfins, Permatrims, etc. AND trim tabs because you have 100 lbs more dead weight hanging off the transom than the designers said you need. The factory boot stripe on our boat is way down in the stern. No surprise. I think the designers striped it to be level with the appropriate engine. Of course, this is America. If the boat will do just fine with 70hp, 135 sounds just about right. Also ran a division for a yacht manufacturer, and started working on boats when Silverton Yachts was Silverton Skiffs. They were made of mahogany over oak. I'm still learning.

140 Suzuki is what I would put on a 22 :thup

 

[DayBreak]

I assume you have a CD 22 and it goes just fine with the 90 hp honda. The boats handle that weight, and much more, without issue. Obviously trim tabs help. If you think the honda 90 is heavy and loud, then you're really going to be unimpressed with the honda 135....I wouldn't put that motor on the back of anything - so many better choices. I would say for the vast majority of users, the 90 or 115 hp outboards are a great match for the boat.

If the boat is a 22 Cruiser, I am seeing more and more people put a Suzuki 140 on the back of that transom. This motor weights only about 34 more pounds than a Honda 90 (360 lbs. vs. 394 lbs.) and will get you the speed you want or need while underway at a lesser RPM. Something to think about.

 

[ssilver]

Ours had a 2004 honda 90 when we got it ran pretty good. We had a 2020 Suzuki 90 and ended up swapping with that and added the permatrim "we already had trim tabs" If I did not have the newer suzuki or had money to burn I would have opted for a 115 or 140. While it does fine w/ the 90 the extra hp would be nice. We just did a long trip for us and were out in the ocean, I think the extra hp would have been nice to have climbing big rollers and just cruising home at a home at a faster pace at times.

 

[T.R. Bauer]

I have nothing but love for the Suzuki 140 as it's a great engine with impressive speed and efficiency. Unfortunately, since I have twins, I'd have to get 2 of them.... The 135 he mentioned, which I assume he was talking about the 135 honda is big, heavy, robust, and somewhat inefficient motor for the hp it's packing. Or should I say hp it's not packing?

 

[thataway]

The boats don't perform well after about 30 knot...depending on conditions.

The original motor was a 70 two stroke. A 1984 2 stroke Johnson outboard engine weight is 248#. Current Honda 90 is 359 pounds. So. you are correct that the outboard most boats come with is 110 heavier.

The Permatrim gives a lower speed to plane, or comes up on a plane easier, and more of a bow down into chop--using the forward "V" to "cut" the chop--ve slamming into the more flat med sections/stern.

I almost always run heavy boats. I have been OK with the 90 on the 22, a 150 on the 25. My first 25 had a 130 (same block as the 115)--and was underpowered. If I were to reposer a 25, I would go to 200hp.

Heavy boat because U often gave supplies for a month. (Freezer, Refrigerator, extra water. (In my current boat I put 200 amp hours of Li Fe PO4 batteries under the v Bunk...but without the Li batteries, I would have adde 2 AGM growp 31 @ 70# each!

I have seen C Dory Transoms break when a powerful motor hit a log...

 

[ssilver]

There is a 25' in our marina w/ a honda 225. I have to ask him how it peforms. I never see him around.

 

[clayhubler]

I feel my boat with twin honda 40s is way underpowered. In my opinion, the boat handles best when it is heavily loaded. Less pounding and predictable handling. But with the twin 40s I can barely get on plane with that loadout. Following seas are the worst.

Those of you that run really heavy boats and have twin 40s, what props do you prefer?

 

[PaulNBriannaLynn]

I feel my boat with twin honda 40s is way underpowered. In my opinion, the boat handles best when it is heavily loaded. Less pounding and predictable handling. But with the twin 40s I can barely get on plane with that loadout. Following seas are the worst.

Those of you that run really heavy boats and have twin 40s, what props do you prefer?

Clay you should try and get a ride in another boat with twin 40s. We ran an identical boat for years and I never felt it was underpowered. Fully loaded cruising speed in the low 20s if my memory is correct. Certainly not as fast as a new Suzuki 140 would be, but never had a problem getting on a plane.

 

[colbysmith]

Unless something has changed, last I knew the 115hp is the biggest outboard recommended for the 22. Colby

 

[itiming]

I feel my boat with twin honda 40s is way underpowered. In my opinion, the boat handles best when it is heavily loaded. Less pounding and predictable handling. But with the twin 40s I can barely get on plane with that loadout. Following seas are the worst.

Those of you that run really heavy boats and have twin 40s, what props do you prefer?

I also have twin 40s. After testing 11x13 vs 11x11 3-blade Honda props, I decided to follow Jay's lead/advice and tested Solas Amita 11.1x11 4-blade propellers today. They are the best performing props I tried when heavily loaded. Jay from C-Green explains it much better in his post here:

I agree with T.R.B. I normally run heavy in fresh water with four blade 11.1x11 (DxP) Solas Amita props I also have permatrims and enlarged trim tabs. When light I get 5900 rpm.s and normally loaded (heavy, remember) 5400. Since max HP is at 5500, lightly loaded you want to be as near as possible to 6000 and possibly over (just don't run it there) so when loaded you have the best HP possible. Four blades seem to give better response at low and mid rpm's. Permatrims seem to help a lot as a rudder when docking slowly (my preference) and of course, for lateral and bow/stern trim when running. I average about 4 smpg, sometimes up to 4.5. I started with Solas 3 blade 13 pitch and went to 4 blade 12 pitch and was only at 5400 WOT, so I then went to 11 pitch. The 12 pitch props are my spares, only one needed once but awfully glad I had them.

Jay

 

[Yakmandu]

If you put a 135 on a 22, I would recommend renaming your boat “Chine Walker”.

 

[hardee]

I feel my boat with twin honda 40s is way underpowered. In my opinion, the boat handles best when it is heavily loaded. Less pounding and predictable handling. But with the twin 40s I can barely get on plane with that loadout. Following seas are the worst.

Those of you that run really heavy boats and have twin 40s, what props do you prefer?

I also have twin 40s. After testing 11x13 vs 11x11 3-blade Honda props, I decided to follow Jay's lead/advice and tested Solas Amita 11.1x11 4-blade propellers today. They are the best performing props I tried when heavily loaded. Jay from C-Green explains it much better in his post here:

I agree with T.R.B. I normally run heavy in fresh water with four blade 11.1x11 (DxP) Solas Amita props I also have permatrims and enlarged trim tabs. When light I get 5900 rpm.s and normally loaded (heavy, remember) 5400. Since max HP is at 5500, lightly loaded you want to be as near as possible to 6000 and possibly over (just don't run it there) so when loaded you have the best HP possible. Four blades seem to give better response at low and mid rpm's. Permatrims seem to help a lot as a rudder when docking slowly (my preference) and of course, for lateral and bow/stern trim when running. I average about 4 smpg, sometimes up to 4.5. I started with Solas 3 blade 13 pitch and went to 4 blade 12 pitch and was only at 5400 WOT, so I then went to 11 pitch. The 12 pitch props are my spares, only one needed once but awfully glad I had them.

Jay

I have twin Yami 40's and though IF I was repowering, I would like twin 50's, I don't feel I am severely underpowered. I am running with Stainless props, (IIRC they are 12 1/4 x 9's after upgrading from aluminum,) And I did notice the difference in performance, especially in low speed and in reverse.

I would go to 50's but the Yami weight difference is a considerable increase since that is the next block size larger. I run a fairly heavy cruise boat and the inflatable is on a stainless pipe rack, not tubing so there is added weight aft there too. I don't really want to add weight aft, so happy with what I have.

My personal feeling, hard floating stuff comes at me plenty fast at 20 something knots, so I'm pretty happy with a 5.5 k cruise speed, and about 23-5 wound up for a hurry to beat a weather or tidal current window.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Hunkydory]

I went from the Honda twin 40’s to Honda twin 60’s & now on the third season & over 200 hours. I couldn’t be more pleased. They have beat all my expectations. Rarely do more then 20 mph. That extra hp is used mainly for a much more quiet & efficient ride with the power there when needed.

To me the old not powering up over 115 hp limit was put to rest by the good folks at Sportscraft Marina, the first & now longest serving C-Dory dealership. They had no problem with mounting the Twin 60’s for me or the Suzuki 140 on Jody’s, Voyager.

My thread on why I chose the Honda 60’s & my results thus far.

http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=27697

Jay

 

[Hunkydory]

I feel my boat with twin honda 40s is way underpowered. In my opinion, the boat handles best when it is heavily loaded. Less pounding and predictable handling. But with the twin 40s I can barely get on plane with that loadout. Following seas are the worst.

Those of you that run really heavy boats and have twin 40s, what props do you prefer?

During the 17 seasons, I ran with Honda twin 40’s it was with 12 inch x 10 pitch 3 blade stainless New Solas at high elevation Yellowstone Lake & when very heavily loaded at sea level. I would switch to 11.1 x 11 pitch for when lighter at sea level & Lake Powell. With either it was seldom, I could cruise over 17 mph, but realistically as others have stated, conditions usually meant a more comfortable ride at between 13 & 17 mph. I didn’t opt for 120 combined hp, just so I could cruise at 20 mph if wanted, but rather as you stated for boat placement on following seas & lower rpm running for a quieter ride. Also over 80% of our cruising time spent is at displacement speed, so with our 60’s running 15 pitch instead of the 40’s, 10 pitch, we now spend the majority of the time with our motors whisper quiet.

We have spent this summer on Yellowstone Lake & thus far have made 520 miles there running about 85% of the time at displacement speed with combined displacement/on plane of 7 mpg.

Jay

 

[clayhubler]

Thanks everybody who has given advice on the propellor pitch. I will do some experimenting soon.

Question for Jay:
Do the new 60's use the same mounting holes as the old 40s? From the photos it looks like they do, but I can't see the lower mounting holes.

Thanks!

 

[Hunkydory]

Clay, yes used same holes.

 

[T.R. Bauer]

Jay is correct on using the same ones - most outboards share a common spacing center and bolt pattern. I won't go as far as putting new outboards on is easy, but it isn't that hard either. By the time you run wires, hoses, and cables, it takes way longer than it should. And for some reason the controls and gauges are stupid expensive. But, it is something people with mechanical aptitude and considerable time can do.