Horsepower size

C

Chica

New member
I have a 22' angler with a 90HP Honda but am considering upgrading to a 115HP Honda or Yamaha. I thought I had heard or read that C-Dory increased the maxium HP specification. True? I see that some C-Dories are running 115's. C-Dory has not answered my e-mail yet. Thank you, Chica
 
Chica-

Yes, C-Dory did up the recommended maximum horsepower to 115 a year or two ago.

I asked them the same question a few years earlier when they went from 90 to 100, and they said it would be OK, and they would send me a new decal for the boat saying the max was 100 (this is the one on the dash at the helm). Also, this was before the ownership change.

It will be up to C-Dory as to whether they will recommend 115 for your older boat. I don't know if any structural changes have been made in the transom to handle the 115.

I asked Gunther's Outboards here in California to put a 115 Yamaha on my CD-22 when I bought a new motor in "05, but they refused, citing liability issues, regardless of what sticker I could get, etc.

Let us know what C-Dory says............

Good Luck!

Joe. :thup :teeth
 
There is the question of what you CAN do, and then the question of WHY would you want to do it? The 115 motor may make the boat go faster than the 90, but the 90 will make a CD22, new or old, go as fast as it is comfortable to go in a CD22. Just my $0.02 (we had a CD22 for two years before buying the CD25).
 
I would agree with Pat. Based on our experience on the 22 C Dory, the 90 hp, even with the boat loaded, would bring the boat speed up to 30 or so knots. As the flat bottom boats go faster, they tend to have a bit less control than some other hull forums.

Although the 115 HP Honda engine is significantly larger displacement, it is also about 140 lbs heavier than the 90 hp EFI Honda. Consider the consiquence of increased weight on the transom of a 22 C Dory. The Yahama is almost 100 lbs less than the Honda, so is closer to the weight of the 90 Honda.

The other question is will the fuel economy suffer with the larger engine? I don't know if it will or not, but this is one of the features of the C Dory and 4 stroke engines. The C Dory is not a high speed boat; there are other fishing boats which do better at high speeds.
 
I usually run at 4800-5000 rpm's and get a speed of 18-22 mph depending on the sea. In order to get 30mph I have to run at 5800-6000 rpms. I run about an hour to get to my usual fishing grounds off the west side of Vancouver Island and did not feel it was in the best interest of my motor to have to run at WOT or near to it for that period of time. Is my reasoning incorrect, or can I safely run at that speed for that long without damage to the engine? Chica
 
I think you are correct that you don't want to push your outboard to WOT all the time. Sounds like you really want or need some other kind of boat, not a new engine, if you want to run at 30 out to your usual fishing grounds. The CD22 is the wrong boat to "get there fast." The handling of a CD22 at 30 can probably best be described as "skitterish" or "squirrely." Is your experience different at that speed? Maybe you need a Grady White with a couple of 225s...I am not being facetious. It just all depends on what you want out of a boat.
 
Ola Pat, I have never run my boat at 30mph long enough to get a "skitterish" feeling, however your remarks are well taken. I once asked Jack O'Conner what he thought about getting my 8mm Mauser re-chambered for a Gibbs modification and he said, "If you want more gun, then you should buy more gun." That's what I did. Thought I would run the 115 HP thing by Red Fox and Coop's Cruiser as I know they run 115's. Thanks all. Chica
 
Well, I run a 115 suzuki and love it. The suzuki 115 is the same weight as the 90 I believe. I can get up to 35-36 depending on wind, current etc... I find the boat handles good at around 30, it does get a little squirelly above that but you just have to be gentle with the wheel. I run wot almost every trip if allowable at least for a minute or two. I think the Cdory is a great fishing platform personally, nothing like having heat, being able to make a hot lunch and stay out of the liquid sunshine when it's coming down. I would love to be able to go 40 though, the trade off you have to make for economical running. I'm not sure if the older boats are rated for a 115 but I'd bet the boat can handle it.

Sark
 
Chica: before repowering, you may want to try switching to a higher pitch prop. I have almost identical RPM/speed numbers as you with my twin 40 setup, but I directed Les to power prop me to handle the heavy loads we carry. I intend to buy a set of "upshift" props this year as spares and for the (infrequent) times we cruise long distances lightly loaded. Your 90 has to have several years of life left on it for you to take advantage of. Good luck! Mike.
 
I got to drive Greg's Red Fox this past summer.

His flat bottom Classic 22 is loaded very heavy, and the 115 pushes the boat with authority!

The boat is so heavy that cutting wakes is no problem. The boat carves tight turns at high speed without any skipping or blowing out.

My opinion:
If you operate your 22 heavy (5,000lbs or more), a 115 is a good choice.

If you operate light with just your lunch and jacket, then 115 hp my be too much.



Summer_07_C_053.jpg

Notice how far down the stern of the Red Fox is.
 
I haven't seen Jack's name in print for years, it was good to see that there are folks that still remember him. As far as the bigger gun, I am surprised that Jack didn't say just get a .270 and be done with it.

Steve
 
I would agree that running near WOT is not wise. Running at 85% of WOT is acceptable. If we consider WOT 6,000 RPM, then 5,100 RPM is a reasonable full time running speed. Although you don't want to "over prop" an engine, you might try running with 2" more prop pitch or a more agressive prop. To me 4800 to 5000 RPM with a 90 hp and only getting 18 to 22 mph (15.6 to 19 knots) seems a bit slow for the boat.

What does you boat weigh? Do you have and use trim tabs? What prop, pitch, cup etc are you running?

We could run the 22 at 30 mph at WOT at Lake Powell, loaded for 10 days cruising, with two adults and 3 dogs. Top speed was about 30 knots at sea level, with 2" more pitch prop.

The lighter Suzuki engine might be a good choice, but there are several potential negitives--it is a smaller displacement engine than the Honda 115, and the same engine block as the Suzuki 90 hp. Also the change in rigging from Honda to Suzuki would be more costly. So if you want to go up in hp consider a larger displacement engine. Just because another boater runs a 115 hp, does not mean that he runs that boat at 30 mph (26 knots).

I agree that you need to run your boat at 30 mph or more, for enough time to see how it handles. (My experience is it is OK at 26 knots, but at 30 knots gets skitterish Also as you up the speed, the ride becomes less comfortable).
 
Wandering Sagebrush, I did not know Jack, but read his column in either Field and Stream or Sports Afield, and he answered my inquiry almost immediately in a type written letter. He made no suggestion as to caliber, but I ended up with a 270 Weatherby Magnum a few years later.
Thataway, I run a standard issue Honda prop-13.5x15x3 aluminum prop. I have trim tabs and love them. I think my boat is heavy as I usually have three adult males, a large igloo cooler with ice, two electric downriggers with 2- 10# weights and 2-12# weights. halibut gear, poles, weights, gaff, and spear. Usually 30 gallons of fuel, a jump battery, survival gear, 2 VHF radios and a GPS/fishfinder, Serius radio, tools, and net. Your suggestion for prop size would be??
If I get a larger motor, I will share my experiences after the salmon season. It will most likely have to be a Yamaha as we have no Suzuki dealer in state. Chica
 
you may want to look in to a new honda 90. Why would you replace a 90 with a 90 you might ask. Well because the new fuel injected honda 90 is lighter then the old one and is producing about 110 hp according to every thing I have read. Call the florida dealer he has a 90 on his older 25. He claims 30 mph light in it.
 
After running my 115 Yamaha on Coop's Cruiser for while now. I feel I made a great move up-powering. You don't have to run WOT to produce a decent time saving cruising speed. :idea I turn about 4600 rpm to produce around 26 mph, that's loaded with three adults 50 of fuel and all the other supplies. Fuel economy appears to me to be greater than when I had the 90 honda. Plus if I add people or other crap to the boat I have plenty of power to do what I need. I run a 4 blade solas 15 pitch that gives me the best overall performance. WOT is 5800 top speed around 35 mph :lol:
 
Coop's Cruiser, would you give me the name of the dealer who hung your 115 yamaha. The local dealer will not consider putting the 115 on my boat with that sticker on the helm, which I understand. C-Dory on the other hand has not answered my e-mail or phone call re. the power rating change for the 22' angler. Did you have problems with your dealer?
Thank you, Chica
 
I don't know if you have a dealer who would let you try a 15" pitch SS Prop, but that would be worth a try. I was running an Evinrude 90, which may have different gearing than the Honda, but my recollection was that my sea level prop was 17" pitch (aluminum)--and the 3500 foot elevation prop was 15" pitch.

There are several good SS 15" props which are in the 13 3/4" diameter which will work well, and have less flex at the high end than the aluminum blade--I would guess that you will pick up several miles an hour at the same RPM. Many dealers will let you try a prop for a few hours with a deposit. Sure a lot cheaper than repowering.

I do run a 115 Yahama on a 18 foot CC which has the same basic weight as the CD 22, but with a 19" pitch prop we are running in the high 30's.--entirely different boats, but also the transom construction on the CC is much better than the CD 22 (much more bracing, since the CC is rated for a 150).
 
Chica,

It's only boats less than 20 ft long that are required to have a USCG HP and capacity sticker.

On boats over 20 ft, that sticker is a recommendation only.
 
Chica, It was Clemens marina in Portland phone # 503-655-0160. They didn't say one word to me about not putting it on my boat. I also talked in person with a c-dory rep and he saided it shouldn't be an issue. The Yamaha 115 weighs less than the honda 115 when I converted my motor. Two strokes will weigh less than any four stoke. So shop around. I haven't had any weight issues with the Yamaha 115
 
Chica,

I would run the Honda at WOT and take my chances. First and foremost, it is a Honda and it will probably tolerate this forever with proper care. Yes, you may wear it out quicker, but it will probably take about forever. These small displacement engines have little weight in motion and are fairly heavily built for their size. Physics are in its favor. I remember my brother's old toyota with a 1.6 liter egine. It used to run at 75 miles per hour on the freeway at 5 thousand rpms all day and not sweat. While it didn't make it to 500,000 miles, it did make it to over 200,000 and it was still going strong - there was just little left of the car because of RUST. On the bright side, it did get better gas mileage every year because it just got lighter and lighter as time went by:)

T. Bauer
 
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